public sector unions want our support

Wertz · 15-12-2009 01:17PM

The IMF are going to be too busy dealing with Greece for the next couple of months to bother with us...and this budget may have postponed their possibe arrival for a couple of years.

As for supporting PS Unions?
Why yes, of course, in the new year I'm instigating a strict work to rule policy in my company...the rule being that I cut my own labour costs to the point where if I manage to work half the year in 2010 (an improvement on 09) I might just make more than someone on unemployment assitance, before I pay the taxman. That's if I can even manage to get some fresh work on the books.

We're all in this together, comrades...stoke the brazier, pass the champage.
F*ck right off tbh.

15-12-2009 01:18PM

diverdriver wrote: »

None of these are anecdotal. Of course I could be making it all up but short of introducing you to my friends and family I cannot prove it. But you can find out yourself, get out of your bubble for five minutes and you'll see reality all around you.

they are very much anecdotal :rolleyes::rolleyes:

anecdotal [ˌænɛkˈdəʊtəl]
adj
containing or consisting exclusively of anecdotes rather than connected discourse or research conducted under controlled conditions

1. also an·ec·dot·ic (-dtk) or an·ec·dot·i·cal (--kl) Of, characterized by, or full of anecdotes.
2. Based on casual observations or indications rather than rigorous or scientific analysis:

i have a friend who works in the public sector since the pay cuts each member of his family has lost 20% of their body weight these pay cuts cant go on.

See we can all make anecdotes, but short of introducing you to this man and his family i cant prove what a crock of **** my story is :rolleyes:

Royal Seahawk · 15-12-2009 02:07PM

The vast majority of people who give out about public service employees are just jealous, simple as that.
They'll moan all day about them but they'd secretly give their right arms to be working in the public sector.

epgc3fyqirnbsx · 15-12-2009 02:12PM

Royal Seahawk wrote: »

The vast majority of people who give out about public service employees are just jealous, simple as that.
They'll moan all day about them but they'd secretly give their right arms to be working in the public sector.

Too right, I'd love one of those jobs so if anyone there doesn't like there job or 'terms of employment' at the moment then kindly f off and give your job to me

If anyone wants to strike then let them, it wont take to long for them to get tired

positron · 15-12-2009 02:36PM

I have a degree and a decades experience in software industry in private sector. I am willing to take a 20% pay-cut for a similar role in public sector - any public sector bosses listening? And I promise never to join and unions or never to strike, ever!

Funkfield · 15-12-2009 02:51PM

positron wrote: »

I have a degree and a decades experience in software industry in private sector. I am willing to take a 20% pay-cut for a similar role in public sector - any public sector bosses listening? And I promise never to join and unions or never to strike, ever!

Of course you would...now.

Where were you when they held the open competitions for the civil service in 2001?

Everyone had the opportunity to apply for a job then.

pretty*monster · 15-12-2009 03:16PM

Funkfield wrote: »

Of course you would...now.

Where were you when they held the open competitions for the civil service in 2001?

Everyone had the opportunity to apply for a job then.

I was just about to ask this.

Back when things were rosey one was thought a bit of an eejit for working for a faily modest salary public sector when there was money to be made hand over fist in the private sector.

One of the reason's the public sector are so pissed off now is that a lot of them believed on some level (rightly or wrongly) that they had a deal that in exchange for not getting rich when the country was gong through a boom that their jobs and their standard of living were secure when the going got rough.

spareman · 15-12-2009 03:25PM

Royal Seahawk wrote: »

The vast majority of people who give out about public service employees are just jealous, simple as that.
They'll moan all day about them but they'd secretly give their right arms to be working in the public sector.

Agree 110% Ireland is a nation of begrudgers, as we all know.

I work in a semi state company (as you can see from my sig), Im also a qualified tradesperson, I took this Job 6 years ago, when Dublin bus were crying out for staff. I left my trade and took a 50% paycut in favour of a secure Job with pension etc.

Many of my mates tought I was mad, I had a young family at the time and knew my industry would not last till I was 65, I was never really interested in making lots of money, I just wanted enough to pay the bills, and have a comfortabe house, decent car and a nice family holiday each year.

Meanwhile my mates were running amok with flashy cars, buying big houses, luxury holidays to all sorts of exotic destinations, partying every weekend, and shoving all sorts of stuff up there noses, For the last 6 years Ive kept thinking I was wrong to take this job, but now I know I done the right thing.

Id say over the last 6 years Im down roughly €200k in earnings compared to someone who has worked in my trade, Now my mates have all lost there Jobs bar a day here and there, and Ive already watched one of them lose his house and nearly his family, the others arent far behind.

While I feel extreamly sorry for them and its heart renching to see them going through hell, I don't see why I should now fit the bill for their good times, as we stand today they have earned 200k more than me in the last 6 years. Why should I have to make cuts in my household because of other peoples spending? I dont see why I should have to cancel my family holiday to bail out the banks because developers can't repay loans.

I wouldn't mind if I tought the money was going to actually help someone who is losing there home, buts it's not, its to pay back property developer loans and look after bank shareholders.

And to be perfectly honest Id much rather the IMF came in and ran the country, because I don't trust the people who are running the country at the moment, They dont care about people, as seen with the recent floods and the lousy €10m package compare that to the €200m package for the pork business after the pig scare. They are more interested in bailing out banks then looking after people who are losing there homes. They should have paid peoples mortgages as a way of bailing out banks.
Rant over!!

imme · 15-12-2009 03:30PM

soups05 wrote: »

i was just catching up on the day's news when i read this on independant.ie

"UNION leaders plan to get private sector workers on board for a disruptive campaign of industrial action after public servants suffered a €1bn pay cut."

In the thread title OP you say "Public Sector Unions Want Our Support", in your Opening Post OP you quote the Irish Independent newspaper as reporting just plain old "Union Leaders...".
Is this intended?

wes · 15-12-2009 03:30PM

spareman wrote: »

And to be perfectly honest Id much rather the IMF came in and ran the country, because I don't trust the people who are running the country at the moment, They dont care about people, as seen with the recent floods and the lousy €10m package compare that to the €200m package for the pork business after the pig scare. They are more interested in bailing out banks then looking after people who are losing there homes. They should have paid peoples mortgages as a way of bailing out banks.
Rant over!!

The IMF care even less btw, they don't have to go for re-election.

ScumLord · 15-12-2009 03:33PM

spareman wrote: »

Agree 110% Ireland is a nation of begrudgers, as we all know.

I work in a semi state company (as you can see from my sig),

Your sig don't work properly on my end, typical semi-state crowd. :rolleyes::pac:

epgc3fyqirnbsx · 15-12-2009 03:48PM

pretty*monster wrote: »

I was just about to ask this.

Back when things were rosey one was thought a bit of an eejit for working for a faily modest salary public sector when there was money to be made hand over fist in the private sector.

One of the reason's the public sector are so pissed off now is that a lot of them believed on some level (rightly or wrongly) that they had a deal that in exchange for not getting rich when the country was gong through a boom that their jobs and their standard of living were secure when the going got rough.

I have heard this said countless times and I really don't think anyone was thought if as an eejit for being in the public sector. There seems to be some sort of inferiority complex on this point, that or its being brought up as a justification for refusing to budge
The pay was never that bad, conditions were excellent ie, job security, holidays and pensions.
That argument that the rest of the country made a mint while we didn't applies only for big business owners, builders, some lawyers and of course public body heads

homerjay2005 · 15-12-2009 04:28PM

public sector have no sympathy from me, by in large, they are the most over paid in europe and thats not bulls*it, that is fact. i know mates that started on 20K more than me when we left college, cos they knew somebody who worked in the civil service and got a nice cushy number.

its the nurses and gardai i feel for, i dont think they should be touched, but thats the way it is. most of the others, i have no sympathy for, cos they sit in the offices, go in at 9.45 and leave at 3.45 and do nothing all day cos their union says they dont have to work hard.

they saw the cushy life, got greedy, expected to be on about 6 or 7,000 more now than what they are, drive cars they cant afford and live in houses they also cant afford and now they realise that things will get tough for them.

diverdriver · 15-12-2009 04:44PM

You need to look up the term anecdotal. Seriously.

they are very much anecdotal

I'm actually quite annoyed. Let me introduce to the term sophistry:

sophistry:
1.a subtle, tricky, superficially plausible, but generally fallacious method of reasoning.

I'm perfectly aware of what anecdotal means. These aren't stories I've heard. They are the cold hard reality of people around me, which is precisely the point I was making. In the same way that everyone will have real examples in their own lives. Except you two apparently. You just like to play clever word games seemingly oblivious to the reality around you.

I wonder why you bother to post in a thread like this? Do you actually have anything to contribute other superficially clever point dictionary points.

It certainly doesn't look like it.

At least polestar actually had an actual point to make.

15-12-2009 04:50PM

diverdriver wrote: »

I'm actually quite annoyed. Let me introduce to the term sophistry:

I'm perfectly aware of what anecdotal means. These aren't stories I've heard. They are the cold hard reality of people around me, which is precisely the point I was making. In the same way that everyone will have real examples in their own lives. Except you two apparently. You just like to play clever word games seemingly oblivious to the reality around you.

I wonder why you bother to post in a thread like this? Do you actually have anything to contribute other superficially clever point dictionary points.

It certainly doesn't look like it.

At least polestar actually had an actual point to make.

Those are two insults, but maybe Im wrong maybe your tryign to be a sophist again :rolleyes:

My point is your point is mute, or to put it more simply completly useless to this discussion.

I know a family who both work in the private sector they have loads of dosh.

There is another case story for you but what exactly does my case story or your case stories prove. Can you guess?

15-12-2009 06:31PM

homerjay2005 wrote: »

i know mates that started on 20K more than me when we left college, cos they knew somebody who worked in the civil service and got a nice cushy number. Wrong. Public Appointments Service has probably the most transparent recruitment policies in the land.

most of the others, i have no sympathy for, cos they sit in the offices, go in at 9.45 and leave at 3.45 and do nothing all day cos their union says they dont have to work hard. Wrong again. Most flexi-time core hours extend to 4.00pm. In theory you could do 10 to 4 if you wanted but you'd have to work those hours up another day. That bollocks about 'their union says they don't have to work hard' is, believe it or not, bollocks.

they saw the cushy life, got greedy, expected to be on about 6 or 7,000 more now than what they are, drive cars they cant afford and live in houses they also cant afford and now they realise that things will get tough for them.Strike three. I believe that what you have written above applies more to the private sector than the public.

Luna Rough Sarong wrote: »

I have heard this said countless times and I really don't think anyone was thought if as an eejit for being in the public sector. There seems to be some sort of inferiority complex on this point, that or its being brought up as a justification for refusing to budge
The pay was never that bad, conditions were excellent ie, job security, holidays and pensions.

There was, and still is to some degree, a stigma attached to being a "civil servant" in many peoples' eyes. It is viewed as being a graveyard for unintelligent, lazy, dullards and i've seen and heard in numerous places that anyone with any real talent or ambition wouldn't be caught dead in the place. That includes Boards c. 3 or 4 years ago.

Luna Rough Sarong wrote: »

That argument that the rest of the country made a mint while we didn't applies only for big business owners, builders, some lawyers and of course public body heads

Brickies getting €10 a brick, labourers on €15+ per hour, sparks, chippies and plasterers clearing €900 a week excluding doing nixers. As anecdotal as some of the other crap thats being posted, the above is money i've seen my mates earn while i started on €20k in 2003.

diverdriver wrote: »

I'm perfectly aware of what anecdotal means. These aren't stories I've heard. They are the cold hard reality of people around me, which is precisely the point I was making.

For the purposes of this argument, your points are unproven hearsay and nothing but anecdotes about people you know.

Also, well spotted by imme re: the thread title.

Flex · 15-12-2009 06:48PM

Deleted User wrote: »

There was, and still is to some degree, a stigma attached to being a "civil servant" in many peoples' eyes. It is viewed as being a graveyard for unintelligent, lazy, dullards and i've seen and heard in numerous places that anyone with any real talent or ambition wouldn't be caught dead in the place. That includes Boards c. 3 or 4 years ago.

Yea, thats why whenever the public sector has been recruiting theres ALWAYS been a shortage of applicants :rolleyes:

soups05 · 15-12-2009 06:54PM

whats wrong with the thread title?

sorry guys but your gonna have to point it out cos i can't see it.

tippdar · 15-12-2009 08:09PM

work in the public sector, the solution the government seems to come up is to hit the public sector. well it can't happen with the next budget , thats why they introduced and called last reduction a pension levy, if they said a pay cut then they couldn't have hit us last week.
anyway there are other solutions , the government has to plough in as much investment into the knowledge economy and use this sector to creat new jobs etc that will boost our economy. frankly hitting public sector workers isnt' the only solution to the current problems.

i thought i'd throw my tuppence worth to this 'debate'

btw... just to remind those out of work in the 'superior' private sector , merry xmass !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

blue1980 · 15-12-2009 08:35PM

The Public sector can sing for it. All my civil servants friends used to constantly joke about how little they worked and how much time was wasted now all they talk about is these cuts. They are my friends but fcuk them and the unions in earnest.

Ulysses Gaze · 15-12-2009 08:38PM

"UNION leaders plan to get private sector workers on board for a disruptive campaign of industrial action after public servants suffered a €1bn pay cut."

Lol...Good luck with that!

Senna · 15-12-2009 08:51PM

tippdar wrote: »

work in the public sector, the solution the government seems to come up is to hit the public sector. well it can't happen with the next budget

Why not?? if your employer cant pay you what do you think will happen?
If you dont like you can always leave your job.

arybvtcw0eolkf · 15-12-2009 09:04PM

Cabaal wrote: »

I for one will not support them in any way shape or form, I know of nobody in the public sector who has lost their job in the past 18 months with the exception of contracts that were not renewed which is not the same thing as it would have happened in the "good times".

Where as I've lost count of those in the private sector who have lost their jobs, had pay cut, had hours cut etc, these same people did not make millions during the good times and yet they have no job security and don't know if they'll have their job this time next month.

Here's the thing, and this comes off the back of a few chats about this with the mates over the last few days.

Recently its been reported that in the private sector only 20% of the work force has had to take a pay cut, so we got chatting.

And honestly, I know one guy who has lost his business (putting 26 people on the dole) and NOT ONE who has had to either take a pay cut or cut back on their hours.

Yet everytime I come into one of these threads or read similar here on boards someone is whinging about the public sector and how hard it is in the private sector with cut backs - so, two things.

1. I don't believe the majority of people here any more and think they're just whinging and making up falsehoods.

2. The government is purposely releasing these falsehoods in their very successful attempt to divide and conquer us the people.

Great so while we're all infighting we've our eye off the balls and the government and their cronies in the banks continue to ass rape us with NAMA and other scandals.

FFS, even RTE has bought in on it - yea screen a whole Prime Time on ODC's and petty crime in Henry St. (Dublin) and ignore the people who've caused this chaos.

Finally (rant almost finished) I'm not a union man, but given the governments divide and conquer tactics I thank God there's at least someone there willing to stand up to them for without them I'm reminded of this little saying..

'When they came for the Jew's, no one spoke"
"When they came for the trades unions, no one spoke"
"When they came for the political dissidents, no one spoke"
"and when they came for me, there was no one left to speak"

If people in the private sector think the government doesn't have them in their cross hairs, and sit back laughing at everyone else - they deserve the raping they're about to receive.

We all collectively put these bastards into Leinster House, they don't consider us their friends (we're not the bankers & developers), we're the little beggars who are best kept infighting and on our needs, because whilst we're down here we're not standing up to them!.

The private sector will rue this year, they'll rue the day they thought it was safe!.

I bet my life on it.

To The North · 15-12-2009 09:08PM

Cabaal wrote: »

I for one will not support them in any way shape or form, I know of nobody in the public sector who has lost their job in the past 18 months with the exception of contracts that were not renewed which is not the same thing as it would have happened in the "good times".

Where as I've lost count of those in the private sector who have lost their jobs, had pay cut, had hours cut etc, these same people did not make millions during the good times and yet they have no job security and don't know if they'll have their job this time next month.

how is your contract not being renewed not the same as losing your job?

where i work we have lost a third of our staff due to their contracts not being renewed, and this would not have happened had there been no moratorium.

it means we have had to reduce our opening hours and our services are not what they once were, but there's simply nothing we can do. we're set to lose more staff as the moratorium goes on. try telling these people that their situation is not the same as anyone in the private sector who has lost their job too.

Senna · 15-12-2009 09:41PM

Liam Muscular Back wrote: »

The private sector will rue this year, they'll rue the day they thought it was safe!.

I bet my life on it.

The private sector is against the wall and has been since since 2008. Who in the private sector thinks their safe? The difference is i'll gladly take higher taxation if i can stay in my job and thats what the gov will/can do to me. But i could go into work tomorrow and be told by the owner that he cant continue business anymore, leaving me screwed. I doubt anyone thinks their safe.

spareman · 15-12-2009 09:49PM

Senna wrote: »

The private sector is against the wall and has been since since 2008. Who in the private sector thinks their safe? The difference is i'll gladly take higher taxation if i can stay in my job and thats what the gov will/can do to me. But i could go into work tomorrow and be told by the owner that he cant continue business anymore, leaving me screwed. I doubt anyone thinks their safe.

Not feeling secure in your Job is not what I call taking the pain, have you taken a pay cut?

I work for Dublin Bus (semi state) and I dont feel secure, drivers are being sacked for the most ridiculas reasons these day's.

positron · 15-12-2009 09:56PM

Funkfield wrote: »

Of course you would...now.

Where were you when they held the open competitions for the civil service in 2001?

Everyone had the opportunity to apply for a job then.

Look, I am not here to take your job or anything. All I am saying is if anyone in public sector thinks they can take their job for granted and strike or whatever, just remember, there's a lot of us employed/unemployed, ready to take your job for 20% less!

And oh, you were always welcome to private sector - not just 2001 or 2008, even today! Peace!

me_right_one · 15-12-2009 10:15PM

What are you on about?

Liam Muscular Back wrote: »

Here's the thing, and this comes off the back of a few chats about this with the mates over the last few days.

Recently its been reported that in the private sector only 20% of the work force has had to take a pay cut, so we got chatting.

And honestly, I know one guy who has lost his business (putting 26 people on the dole) and NOT ONE who has had to either take a pay cut or cut back on their hours.

So in other words, you know 27 people who lost their private sector jobs

Liam Muscular Back wrote: »

Yet everytime I come into one of these threads or read similar here on boards someone is whinging about the public sector and how hard it is in the private sector with cut backs.

Eh, I think its the other way round! Unless I missed that whole private sector strike against...... private sector employers

Liam Muscular Back wrote: »

Great so while we're all infighting we've our eye off the balls and the government and their cronies in the banks continue to ass rape us with NAMA and other scandals.

FFS, even RTE has bought in on it - yea screen a whole Prime Time on ODC's and petty crime in Henry St. (Dublin) and ignore the people who've caused this chaos.

You sure this wasn't supposed to be in the CT forum?

Liam Muscular Back wrote: »

If people in the private sector think the government doesn't have them in their cross hairs, and sit back laughing at everyone else - they deserve the raping they're about to receive....

The private sector will rue this year, they'll rue the day they thought it was safe!.

The private sector NEVER thought it was safe. EVER. If you want safety, you get yourself a public sector job. And I'm not so sure about getting raped, but if you're alluding to taxes going up, I'd rather pay high taxes and have a job than be on the dole. Just ask one of the 450,000 people on it

Liam Muscular Back wrote: »

I bet my life on it.

Riiiiiiiiiiiiightt

seclachi · 15-12-2009 10:35PM

Liam Muscular Back wrote: »

And honestly, I know one guy who has lost his business (putting 26 people on the dole) and NOT ONE who has had to either take a pay cut or cut back on their hours.

I know of plenty of people who have taken pay cuts. Your probably right though, not many have taken them on the whole I would say, but plenty have just outright lost there job. Anybodys who graduated recently is faced with immigration to get on the career ladder. Seems to me what you perceive is going on and what is going on are two different things

2. The government is purposely releasing these falsehoods in their very successful attempt to divide and conquer us the people.

'When they came for the Jew's, no one spoke"
"When they came for the trades unions, no one spoke"
"When they came for the political dissidents, no one spoke"
"and when they came for me, there was no one left to speak"

FF are muppets, I doubt they have enough brains to pull of anything more elaborate than there pathetic fients with the bord snip nua report (Bord snip "sorry lads, we have to cut everything" Gov: "Ah shure dont mind them it`ll be alright (Vote FF!)". Job security is at all time low, Debt is at an all time high, of course people are going to be snapping at people in safe public sector jobs, especially when you get there idiot union heads spouting ****e.

If people in the private sector think the government doesn't have them in their cross hairs, and sit back laughing at everyone else - they deserve the raping they're about to receive...

The private sector will rue this year, they'll rue the day they thought it was safe!.

I bet my life on it.

Not one single person in the private sector feels safe, I really dont know what the hell your on about here, everybody I know is in fear of there job, working extra hours, grinning and bearing any cuts or taxes and hoping to get through it. The government dont have the private sector in there cross hairs, why the hell would they. A. There its main source of income B. There its main source of voters. I dont see any of my friends on the dole, or working 10-11 hour days sitting back and laughing.

I`d like to see you in the shoes of some of the people I know and still post this drivel tbh...

seclachi · 15-12-2009 10:42PM

Liam Muscular Back wrote: »

Finally (rant almost finished) I'm not a union man, but given the governments divide and conquer tactics I thank God there's at least someone there willing to stand up to them for without them I'm reminded of this little saying..
'When they came for the Jew's, no one spoke"
"When they came for the trades unions, no one spoke"
"When they came for the political dissidents, no one spoke"
"and when they came for me, there was no one left to speak"

Just to come back to this, our government couldnt break a matchstick, yet alone the unions, all they have managed at the moment was a run-away-knock where they kept them busy until the budget and ran away like little school girls. That number is going to cost them dearly to even get them to make the most basic concession next year, and there no thacterite union smashers either.

public sector unions want our support

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