Fingerprint scan for you to claim benefits, would you object?

aligator_am · 05-12-2009 05:58PM #1

Hi Guys,

As the title indicates, would you object to needing to pass a fingerprint scan in order to collect the dole etc? I personally wouldn't, if you've nothing to hide then you've nothing to worry about

It would probably cost the goverenment about €30m to install these devices into all post offices (that figure is just a guess) but would save a vast amount of cash on the system cheats that are floating about. Also, if this system was linked in to the Garda database, it should also immediately flag any discrepacies, again, no issue if you've nothing to hide.

Personally, if I had my way then this would be just phase one, next level would be retinal scanners.

The initial cost may be substantial but the money it would save in the long run, I personally believe, would be far greater.

So what do you think? would you have an issue with it? do the PC brigade think it's an invasion of people's privacy? TBH I think there are far too many scammers out there, both homegrown and imported to leave this issue alone, the country is floundering, why not implement this system and recoup some of the lost cash?

chin_grin · 05-12-2009 06:02PM

Oh the chaos that would ensue.

"Wha deh fu*k? Yer nawh tayken a bih o me souuuuuuuuuuuuuuul!"

Also finding the time to "enroll" (that is capture the fingerprints...well they're not actually fingerprints, it converts points on your finger to a HEX number. But where was I?). Yes getting the time to enroll the populace would be absolute pandemonium!

Also I wonder where the central database for this would be? Mmmmm SQL, om nom nom nom nom nom.

.....It does worry how close we are to 1984. Be it ever so far behind us........Ah. What's this I'm doing!? future-maudlin?

aligator_am · 05-12-2009 06:12PM

chin_grin wrote: »

Oh the chaos that would ensue.

"Wha deh fu*k? Yer nawh tayken a bih o me souuuuuuuuuuuuuuul!"

Aye, but they'd soon shut their yappers once they realised that they aren't getting any cash until they submit to the scan.

Also, why not simply set a predetermined date for the launch of the system? That way it would give people time to attend site and have their scan taken.

IMO we've gone past the point of worrying about what the PC brigade will say, if they have an issue with it then let them pay the balance of cash to the people who refuse to subject to the scan..... yeah, like that's gonna happen lol.

monkeypants · 05-12-2009 06:13PM

aligator_am wrote: »

if you've nothing to hide then you've nothing to worry about

Absolutely. What's your name, where do you live and how much do you earn?

aligator_am · 05-12-2009 06:14PM

monkeypants wrote: »

Absolutely. What's your name, where do you live and how much do you earn?

I can PM you if you like?

CantGetNoSleep · 05-12-2009 06:14PM

Run to da Hills will be in doing his usual b1tching in a while

blubloblu · 05-12-2009 06:17PM

aligator_am wrote: »

I can PM you if you like?

Why hide it?

Tigger · 05-12-2009 06:17PM

@ cant get no sleep

your comment is ironic

monkeypants · 05-12-2009 06:19PM

aligator_am wrote: »

I can PM you if you like?

No thanks, post it publically. What have you got to hide?

Joey the lips · 05-12-2009 06:20PM

yes I would and do object to finger print and eye scanning. I do not agree with the attitude that "Well if you have nothing to hide....." Just click on my link it all started with.

A far simpler way would be to insist everyone is paid into a bank account or where not possible must collect with photographic ID.

aligator_am · 05-12-2009 06:20PM

monkeypants wrote: »

No thanks, post it publically. What have you got to hide?

Alan Matthews
Lucan
€24k per annum

Now that's out of the way, how about some real replies?

monkeypants · 05-12-2009 06:24PM

Joey the lips wrote: »

A far simpler way would be to insist everyone is paid into a bank account or where not possible must collect with photographic ID.

I was last on the dole in 2002 and I used to get paid into my AIB account. Nowadays I have to go in to my local post office and use a card that I was sent back in 1994 and has sat in the bottom of a drawer, unused, until very recently.

aligator_am · 05-12-2009 06:26PM

Joey the lips wrote: »

A far simpler way would be to insist everyone is paid into a bank account or where not possible must collect with photographic ID.

AFAIK that was the previous arrangement, which was removed as too many people were being paid the dole into their bank accounts while "travelling", also I believe that you need to currently present photo ID at the post office to collect the dole (not certain), clearly this system doesn't work.

gcgirl · 05-12-2009 06:32PM

photo id should be the norm pps cards with photos please! Fraud is widespread the amount of b/f's living with their lone parent g/f's its gives those Genuine claimants a bad name!

monkeypants · 05-12-2009 06:35PM

Here's another response. The points in below are in no particular order, just as they occur to me. I'll probably add more later.

Cost to setup and run. You admitted that €30m was a guess, but we all know that it'll cost way more that that to even get this started. We'll be looking at billions.

Justification. If X amount of money is being cheated from the system, what percentage of that is due to ID failings?

Track record. How did we get on with voting machines, integrated public transport ticketing and PPARS?

Overheal · 05-12-2009 06:36PM

fingerprint scans can be faked easilly enough. youd definitely expect to see a fair amount of fraud going on.

Guy:Incognito · 05-12-2009 06:38PM

Cant see a problem. If you dont want to avail of a service thats your choice , if you do you play by the rules of the people supplyign the service.

monkeypants · 05-12-2009 06:38PM

Overheal wrote: »

fingerprint scans can be faked easilly enough. youd definitely expect to see a fair amount of fraud going on.

I'd rather than dodgy gits looking for easy money had no reason at all to be cutting off my fingers.

monkeypants · 05-12-2009 06:39PM

Stekelly wrote: »

Cant see a problem. If you dont want to avail of a service thats your choice , if you do you play by the rules of the people supplyign the service.

Sounds like a good idea. Can I also opt-out of paying for the service too? Seems fair.

Guy:Incognito · 05-12-2009 06:43PM

monkeypants wrote: »

Sounds like a good idea. Can I also opt-out of paying for the service too? Seems fair.

Nope. You live and work here, you in. You opt out by leaving.

dvpower · 05-12-2009 06:43PM

Depends.

If there was legislation outlining exactly what the information could be used for, and if it was destroyed soon after it was no longer useful for that purpose and there were controls on who could access the information, then OK.

By the way, what frauds would this type of system prevent? It could certainly verify that the person collecting a payment was the person that made the claim. Have the DSFA said that this type of fraud is a particular problem?

Stercus Accidit · 05-12-2009 06:45PM

Wouldn't photo ID suffice?

Ziggurat · 05-12-2009 06:45PM

Yes. I don't like the idea of fingerprint scanning. Least of all by a government.

And yes, I've got plenty to hide. Just like everyone else.

aligator_am · 05-12-2009 06:49PM

monkeypants wrote: »

Here's another response. The points in below are in no particular order, just as they occur to me. I'll probably add more later.

Cost to setup and run. You admitted that €30m was a guess, but we all know that it'll cost way more that that to even get this started. We'll be looking at billions.

Justification. If X amount of money is being cheated from the system, what percentage of that is due to ID failings?

Track record. How did we get on with voting machines, integrated public transport ticketing and PPARS?

To buy the equipment now would be relatively cheap, even on a scale as large as this, employ a company to maintain the kit, most companies are crying out for work right now and will offer competative rates, also most companies would like to have something like this on their portfolio.

Regarding failings, why not scan each individual finger of the person? that way if one fails then yeah, it's a glitch, if all fail then it's a scammer.

Yes, I admit, those are good examples of epic fails on the govt's behalf, but by Jaysus, they can't afford another catastrophie like that and I reckon they would actually try to do this one right, but that's just my opinion. They should outsource this to someone like Dell or IBM or something, and the key part is to make everything completely transparent / open to the public so they can see that it's not tax payer's money going down the pan.

Capt'n Midnight · 05-12-2009 06:50PM

maybe you could use existing photo ID when collecting benefits

or a system like in the airport security where you get photographed while at the counter

you may not even need to pre register finger prints - you don't want to ID everyone, you just want to verify that the payments are being made to the same thumbprint each week

of course if you don't want the state to keep tabs on you , you can simply not take the money

Maybe we could have people signing on every week instead of once per month ?

Run_to_da_hills · 05-12-2009 06:54PM

CantGetNoSleep wrote: »

Run to da Hills will be in doing his usual b1tching in a while

TBH, I don't think we have anything to worry about for a while, If the Government couldn't get their act together on electronic voting I doubt if they could organize this.

People on the dole should be more concerned about it being scrapped and those kicked out on the streets like most Eastern European countries. :eek:

If there ever is going to be some type of positive ID required for Social Welfare etc it will be in the form of a "smart card" and it will come from Europe.

monkeypants · 05-12-2009 06:55PM

Stekelly wrote: »

Nope. You live and work here, you in. You opt out by leaving.

To be fair, if it came down to it, I probably would leave. I've lived elsewhere and paid taxes elsewhere and you don't get much back for it in this country. If they brought in such a sledgehammer-for-a-walnut scheme in this country, it really would be a sign that they'd lost the plot completely.

monkeypants · 05-12-2009 07:02PM

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Maybe we could have people signing on every week instead of once per month ?

Now there's a suggestion. I originally made my application back in September and my first date for signing on it in the middle of January.

aligator_am · 05-12-2009 07:05PM

monkeypants wrote: »

Here's another response. The points in below are in no particular order, just as they occur to me. I'll probably add more later.

Cost to setup and run. You admitted that €30m was a guess, but we all know that it'll cost way more that that to even get this started. We'll be looking at billions.

Justification. If X amount of money is being cheated from the system, what percentage of that is due to ID failings?

Track record. How did we get on with voting machines, integrated public transport ticketing and PPARS?

monkeypants wrote: »

To be fair, if it came down to it, I probably would leave. I've lived elsewhere and paid taxes elsewhere and you don't get much back for it in this country. If they brought in such a sledgehammer-for-a-walnut scheme in this country, it really would be a sign that they'd lost the plot completely.

Well it's as simple as this, Ireland is seen as a soft target by international scammers, it's also seen as a soft target by plenty of Irish naer do wells, if the govt are so determined to show the world that they can take a tough line and implement several severe budgets then sure this kind of system would help their case?

And I must say, I mean no offense to anyone who has lost their job in the recession, it's aimed squarely at the lifelong scroungers and their ilk, I mean no hurt to any genuine people out there who are suffering from this fun time that we live in

monkeypants · 05-12-2009 07:08PM

aligator_am wrote: »

And I must say, I mean no offense to anyone who has lost their job in the recession, it's aimed squarely at the lifelong scroungers and their ilk, I mean no hurt to any genuine people out there who are suffering from this fun time that we live in

That's a different issue and one that I would personally support. When I applied, I had to have a certain amount of contributions over the previous two years, which I had. I don't understand how you can claim if you have never paid any money in. Surely that would be a better place to start?

Biggins · 05-12-2009 07:17PM

No objection

Fingerprint scan for you to claim benefits, would you object?

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