Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

TCDSU's sit-in protest in the Library

2

Comments

  • #32
    oharach
    Closed Accounts Posts: 185 ✭✭oharach


    Jonathan wrote: »
    I was under the assumption this was funded by a HEA capital grant.
    I don't think it really matters how it was funded. It was taxpayer money going to waste for a flashier website and a non-functional back-office system
    Jonathan wrote: »
    How time critical is your study?
    When you want to read an article, or check a point, it's because it is relevant to what you are doing now. Very often I will just make do without books because I will have moved onto something else by the time they get to the library.

    Anyway, the closing time for delivery is 9:30am - i would not be very far into my day's work at that stage. If you miss the deadline, you won't get your books until 12:30 the following day. At weekends, not at all. At the very least the deadline should be 12:00 for 15:00 delivery. That would suit most people a lot better.


  • #33
    Larianne
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,954 ✭✭✭✭Larianne


    It really does shock me how a university so big as Trinity has a shockin library system.

    Do they have extended hours during exam time?


  • #34
    Time Magazine
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,452 ✭✭✭Time Magazine


    oharach wrote: »
    Trinity is a legal deposit library, so it gets a lot of its books for free. What is doesn't get is multiple copies of popular books, or books from abroad.
    UCD and NUIM are also de facto legal deposit libraries. I was of course making reference to the large stock of non-deposit books.
    Rubbish. The library is not connected to the Old Library.
    Wanna bet?
    Have you ever visited Trinity?
    Yes, once, when I was a lad.
    The library is connected to the Arts Block, but the entrance via the Arts Block is closed.
    There are other doors from the Arts Block to the library.


  • #35
    oharach
    Closed Accounts Posts: 185 ✭✭oharach


    Larianne wrote: »
    It really does shock me how a university so big as Trinity has a shockin library system.

    Do they have extended hours during exam time?

    No, but they do have "super fines" - for example they tried to charge me ca. €25 for keeping out 2 books from santry overnight. They in fact had checked them in incorrectly.


  • #36
    oharach
    Closed Accounts Posts: 185 ✭✭oharach


    Time Magazine wrote: »
    UCD and NUIM are also de facto legal deposit libraries. I was of course making reference to the large stock of non-deposit books.

    I don't think UCD and NUI have the same entitlement to British books as TCD does. It is entitled under the Legal Deposit Libraries Act 2003.
    Time Magazine wrote: »
    Wanna bet?
    Sorry, I was of course not thinking about underground passages. Since the Old Library is open to visitors on Sundays, I still don't think there are significant insurance issues.
    Time Magazine wrote: »
    There are other doors from the Arts Block to the library.
    But they are closed as well..? I've been at conferences in the Arts Block before on Sundays, so they don't mind paying the insurance for it.


  • Advertisement
  • #37
    Time Magazine
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,452 ✭✭✭Time Magazine


    oharach wrote: »
    I don't think UCD and NUI have the same entitlement to British books as TCD does. It is entitled under the Legal Deposit Libraries Act 2003.
    Correct. Notwithstanding that, I'm making reference not to College's one copy of everything but to its large stock of just about all course books. It's insufficient to fill demand, but it's a lot better than other places.
    Sorry, I was of course not thinking about underground passages. Since the Old Library is open to visitors on Sundays, I still don't think there are significant insurance issues.
    It's only open from a quarter past twelve to a quarter to one, or something like that. There's also EPBs to consider. Basically, there is access to that building and that is an issue.
    But they are closed as well..? I've been at conferences in the Arts Block before on Sundays, so they don't mind paying the insurance for it.
    To be fair, it's a completely different ballgame. As someone who has broken into a TCD Library at 3am, climbed through windows into Library archives, stolen books from said archives (but of course returned them), climbed over shelves to get to library stacks, and other tales I'm not willing to spread, I can verify that students get up to mischief. They figure out that there are windows in the Berkeley. They figure out that the library has a large basement. They figure out that you can terrify tourists when visiting EPBs. Basically, they're not the same species as conferences attendees.


  • #38
    oharach
    Closed Accounts Posts: 185 ✭✭oharach


    Time Magazine wrote: »
    It's only open from a quarter past twelve to a quarter to one, or something like that. There's also EPBs to consider. Basically, there is access to that building and that is an issue.

    I'm afraid this isn't exactly true. From their website:
    Sunday (May - September) 09:30 - 16:30
    Sunday (October - April) 12:00 - 16.30

    Even the restricted Winter opening hours are roughly what was offered last year - and what we would be happy with.
    Time Magazine wrote: »
    To be fair, it's a completely different ballgame. As someone who has broken into a TCD Library at 3am, climbed through windows into Library archives, stolen books from said archives (but of course returned them), climbed over shelves to get to library stacks, and other tales I'm not willing to spread, I can verify that students get up to mischief. They figure out that there are windows in the Berkeley. They figure out that the library has a large basement. They figure out that you can terrify tourists when visiting EPBs. Basically, they're not the same species as conferences attendees.

    You might be disappointed by the present generation of students. I stayed until 12:30am this morning (8 and a half hours) and despite the games of Twister, Monopoly and cards that people had brought, and the pizzas we had delivered, there wasn't a lot going on. The terms of our protest wouldn't even let us use the resources in the Iveagh Hall, e.g. the rather large and up to date DVD collection (which in all fairness should probably be scaled back since its existence is a well-guarded secret)


  • #39
    dan719
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,597 ✭✭✭dan719


    Time Magazine wrote: »
    Trinity, for better or worse, it dependent on state funding. The state is running a deficit this year of €23bn.

    We're cutting €222m from our Overseas Development Aid, yet you think it's cuts in a university's book budget that's despicable.

    Hopefully we will cut it to zero in the near future. Who the f*ck borrows money just to give it away to a bunch of countries that couldn't work their way out of a paper bag.

    Regarding the protest. Since my views on the SU are well known, it will probably come as a surprise that I supported last night's protest one hundred percent. College should have an area reserved for study 24 hours a day (one with toilets rather then the current one) rather than students resorting (as I have done on many occasions) to the Hamilton computer rooms. As someone who was in the library on many sundays over the last two years (when it was opened) I can say that the claim that only seventy people were there is nothing but a downright lie. There were oftentimes queues developing outside the berkeley entrance from half ten onwards.


  • #40
    Prof.Badass
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,931 ✭✭✭Prof.Badass


    penguin88 wrote: »
    Well in my opinion, seeing as our registration fee jumped to 1500 euro this year (and is supposed to only be used for student services), I think it's despicable that the book budget has been cut, library staff have been let go and suggestions that the libraries will close early on Fridays. Maybe this would be acceptable if there were vast improvements in other services throughout college, but with the exception of the 24 hour study space, I can't see what has been improved since last year.

    How can you expect vast improvements in this climate?

    Surviving the reccession without "registration fees" hitting the roof would be a miracle imo. This is where the su should be channeling all their efforts.


  • #41
    oharach
    Closed Accounts Posts: 185 ✭✭oharach


    dan719 wrote: »
    I can say that the claim that only seventy people were there is nothing but a downright lie. There were oftentimes queues developing outside the berkeley entrance from half ten onwards.

    Right on. There are 60 people at the minute (18:30) in the 24 hr computer room/study space, so it's laughable to think that more than 70 didn't show up in the relatively more sociable hours on Sundays when it was actually opened. (approx 11-4)

    Update (20:30): still 33 people here


  • Advertisement
  • #42
    Sir Ophiuchus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,035 ✭✭✭Sir Ophiuchus


    I hear a rumour the library will be closed during the Schols period.

    Someone, for the love of God, either prove or disprove this (preferably disprove). Their website has no opening hours for after the 18th of December.


  • #43
    Aoibheann
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,383 ✭✭✭Aoibheann


    I couldn't tell you for certain, but I've also heard the same rumour, which if true is absolutely ridiculous.. Poor people studying for schols. :(


  • #44
    Lame Lantern
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 368 ✭✭Lame Lantern


    Staff are getting Emails about the cost of coffee mugs and chalk. The university's reaction to the squeeze has been at best incompetent, largely motivated by their unwillingness to tackle a ludicrous bureaucracy and generally moronic overstaffing problem.

    I wouldn't make the library hours a priority anyway but my real gripe is that the SU is seizing on this easy issue instead of critically examining the university's books and putting pressure on administrators to be not-awful. Despite our ranking, many faculties are neglected and will be brought to the brink because of this crisis, yet unnecessary staff in enormous departments (like English for example, or even the library staff itself) are expected to get a promised increase in pay.

    Sundays in the library is a low priority symptom in my view.


  • #45
    oharach
    Closed Accounts Posts: 185 ✭✭oharach


    Sir Ophiuchus wrote: »
    I hear a rumour the library will be closed during the Schols period.

    Someone, for the love of God, either prove or disprove this (preferably disprove). Their website has no opening hours for after the 18th of December.

    The library hours are only showing up for Michaelmas Term, which ends at Christmas. It's very unlikely that it will be closed over the schol* period. For one thing, they have a contractual obligation to give the permanent staff whatever minimum hours are named in their contracts. Also, it stays open in the summer, so no reason why not at Christmas. It will probably be 9-5 though, possibly closed on Saturdays.

    * always singular


  • #46
    Kwekubo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,238 ✭✭✭Kwekubo


    Important Dates section on college website says that all libraries will be open until 10p.m. from 4 January.


  • #47
    oharach
    Closed Accounts Posts: 185 ✭✭oharach


    Kwekubo wrote: »
    Important Dates section on college website says that all libraries will be open until 10p.m. from 4 January.

    Woohoo!


  • #48
    Awayindahils
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,024 ✭✭✭Awayindahils


    mardybumbum wrote: »
    I actually find the opening times in the library ok. :eek:
    I usually finish lectures around 4. Ill pop into the hamilton until 9. Then pop downstairs for a meusli bar and chocomilk ( they are delicious ).
    Then I nip into the postgrad reading room for two hours. Sure the walk from the hamilton to front square wakes me up a bit.

    I think the priority for TCD at the moment is a shuttle bus from front square to the hamilton. My legs are getting sore.

    But you are not entitled to that time you spend in the postgrad reading room. Its a postgrad facility, so factor it out of when evaluating the quality of the service.
    oharach wrote: »

    Rubbish. The library is not connected to the Old Library. Have you ever visited Trinity? The library is connected to the Arts Block, but the entrance via the Arts Block is closed.

    The statistic used in the Irish Times was a lie. They said 0.5% of us used the library on Sunday, but they did the counts 10 minutes after the library opened. Come on, 5% of 15000 is only 70 people. No one who was in the library on Sundays would accept that figure.


    Firstly, get to know your own library. They are connected. And there could potentially be massive damage.

    Secondly, early on in the year Sudnay library hours are not used, i was a 4th year last year with a Sunday library habit. There were a lot of sundays in Michelamus term when the place was empty. (I do support longer library hours though)
    oharach wrote: »
    I'm afraid this isn't exactly true. From their website:
    Sunday (May - September) 09:30 - 16:30
    Sunday (October - April) 12:00 - 16.30

    Even the restricted Winter opening hours are roughly what was offered last year - and what we would be happy with.

    Opening hours in my Public German University, Social Contribution and Fees amount to 1,080 for two semesters.

    The fees are the same for undergraduates.

    Opening Hours - 24hours a day, all the time.

    Desk Service - 7am-11pm Monday - Friday
    8am -8pm Saturday
    No desk service on a Sunday

    Enormous amount of books, and very liberal borrowing priveldges.

    I think Trinity and the Irish Government in general just hemoraged money all over the place and its not the students who should be paying, but unfortunately it is always those with the smallest voices who bear the burdon of other people's bad choices.


  • #49
    devinejay
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 639 ✭✭✭devinejay


    Some thoroughly disgruntled looking TCD students in yellow made it into the Herald.AM. I'm not sure what to make of this, while I'm happy that the state of our facilities and the financial burden the college is facing is getting exposure, I just wish the SU weren't the face of it.


  • #50
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 16,720 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    devinejay wrote: »
    Some thoroughly disgruntled looking TCD students in yellow made it into the Herald.AM. I'm not sure what to make of this, while I'm happy that the state of our facilities and the financial burden the college is facing is getting exposure, I just wish the SU weren't the face of it.

    It's probably better being the SU instead of 'Dr. John Hegarty, whose own salary has increased by 19% for next year, highlighted the financial crisis facing the University sector'.


  • #51
    devinejay
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 639 ✭✭✭devinejay


    Dónal wrote: »
    It's probably better being the SU instead of 'Dr. John Hegarty, whose own salary has increased by 19% for next year, highlighted the financial crisis facing the University sector'.

    True, very true.


  • Advertisement
  • #52
    Degsy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,397 ✭✭✭✭Degsy


    oharach wrote: »
    .
    - There are still far too many staff in the BLU. I know they think they are overworked and underpaid but some of them should really wake up to what a private sector job would be like. Many of them are rude, incompetent and lazy

    Care to back this up a bit?


  • #53
    Denerick
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,485 ✭✭✭Denerick


    Degsy wrote: »
    Care to back this up a bit?

    Personal.Experience.


  • #54
    Degsy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,397 ✭✭✭✭Degsy


    Denerick wrote: »
    Personal.Experience.


    Can you be more specific?


  • #55
    Mark200
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,536 ✭✭✭Mark200


    Degsy wrote: »
    Can you be more specific?

    I'd reckon he has seen them at times doing nothing, and they have been rude to him on occasions and made mistakes on occasions. Don't see why he'd have to back that up with great detail.

    There are a lot of times when I come into the Hamilton and there's two or three librarians behind the desk doing nothing... talking away or whatever, even though there could be three or four trolleys full of books that need to be shelved.


  • #56
    Degsy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,397 ✭✭✭✭Degsy


    Mark200 wrote: »
    I'd reckon he has seen them at times doing nothing, and they have been rude to him on occasions and made mistakes on occasions. Don't see why he'd have to back that up with great detail.

    Not quite all of them all of the time though.

    Maybe he fails to understand what working the counter entails..standing from 9.30 to 5pm dealing with literally hundreds of students and thier queries,questions,transactions,needs and attitudes.
    I have no time at all for any staff member who appears rude or lazy or incompetent but it IS hard work dealing with this volume of people throughout the day.
    The rudeness isnt all one-way either..in the last couple of years i've noticed a trend amongst students to push a book and thier card across the counter without a word..They dont say whether they're returning the book,taking the book out,hello,please,thank-you or kiss my arse.
    It takes seconds to say "Hi,can i borrow this book please" and it results in better communication all round..i mean i'm not psychic..i cant guess what you want to do.
    As for staff in the hamiltonb standing around chatting,i dont work t here so i cant speak for them but there is a suggestion box in every reading room into which you can make any legitimate complaints.
    There are some people to whom the job is a chore but the majority find it interesting and rewarding and enjoy interacting with students..meet us halfway though..we're people too.


  • #57
    Mark200
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,536 ✭✭✭Mark200


    Degsy wrote: »
    in the last couple of years i've noticed a trend amongst students to push a book and thier card across the counter without a word..They dont say whether they're returning the book,taking the book out,hello,please,thank-you or kiss my arse.

    Well in fairness I always say what it is I want, but the majority of the time they don't say anything back. As if I may aswell be talking to a wall.


  • #58
    Degsy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,397 ✭✭✭✭Degsy


    Mark200 wrote: »
    Well in fairness I always say what it is I want, but the majority of the time they don't say anything back. As if I may aswell be talking to a wall.


    I doubt if its the majority of the time..very,very few of the staff i work with are anything other than polite and courteous.

    Which library do you use?


  • #59
    Mark200
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,536 ✭✭✭Mark200


    Degsy wrote: »
    I doubt if its the majority of the time..very,very few of the staff i work with are anything other than polite and courteous.

    Which library do you use?

    Hamilton. It's definitely the majority of the time.

    I'm not complaining or anything, but I can understand why some students wouldn't really bother saying anything.


  • #60
    Degsy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,397 ✭✭✭✭Degsy


    Mark200 wrote: »
    Hamilton. It's definitely the majority of the time.

    I'm not complaining or anything, but I can understand why some students wouldn't really bother saying anything.


    Cant comment on that place..maybe the staff need to buck thier ideas up a bit...good manners cost nothing.


  • Advertisement
  • #61
    Boston
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,163 ✭✭✭✭Boston


    To those saying the library staff should work as if they had private sector jobs, perhaps you would be happy if the Library was operated as a private enterprise? You'd pay to take books out and pay to use study space?
    Degsy wrote: »
    Cant comment on that place..maybe the staff need to buck thier ideas up a bit...good manners cost nothing.

    There's a lad in there alright who likes the auld blank stare of death and contempt.


Advertisement