application of false start rule + starting blocks

ChickenTikka · 27-11-2009 02:52PM #1

See today's AAI announcment:- http://www.athleticsireland.ie/content/?p=10801

I think its very harsh to be applying the "1 false start rule" to U12s - some of those athletes will be just 10 years old.

And the "no false start rule" for U15s (i.e. a 13 yr old and older), is very harsh too. We should be trying to make it easier for young athletes to develop rather than making it more difficult. There's plenty of time for them to be subjected to the torture of immediate disqualification when they reach older ages or senior.

For many clubs, making it mandatory to use starting blocks for u13s upwards will also be very difficult. Many clubs might not have sufficient equipment or facilities for this.

Hopefully this mandate is a result of indepth research that using starting blocks from a young age is beneficial to a young athlete's development (I suspect not!) rather than making it easier for an official to disqualify the same young athlete.

helpisontheway · 27-11-2009 03:05PM

I was under the assumption that the IAAF brought this rule in for televised meets to keep the broadcasters of these events happy re scheduling etc?

If that is the case why do we need to have them at anything under youth level?Do AAI have plans to get the Munster u9-u12s televised this year:p

As a coach i am dreading losing athletes who might fall victim to this and get disheartened and quit,its hard enough to hold onto them.

Also if athletes have to use blocks because of this rule doesnt that mean that all blocks must use the pressure system on the back of the blocks? If they dont does that make the rule void as it would be totally unfair to disqualify somebody without proof?ie.Somebody could twitch setting somebody off leading them to be disqualified rather than the person who twitched.

athletics · 27-11-2009 03:16PM

helpisontheway wrote: »

I was under the assumption that the IAAF brought this rule in for televised meets to keep the broadcasters of these events happy re scheduling etc?

If that is the case why do we need to have them at anything under youth level?Do AAI have plans to get the Munster u9-u12s televised this year:p

As a coach i am dreading losing athletes who might fall victim to this and get disheartened and quit,its hard enough to hold onto them.

Also if athletes have to use blocks because of this rule doesnt that mean that all blocks must use the pressure system on the back of the blocks? If they dont does that make the rule void as it would be totally unfair to disqualify somebody without proof?ie.Somebody could twitch setting somebody off leading them to be disqualified rather than the person who twitched.

It's also unfair because if a talented athlete under 16 or younger gets disqualified at provincial level, they won't even be eligible to run at National level in same competition as they have to qualify from provincials. Will these rulses also apply to schools athletics?

thirtyfoot · 27-11-2009 04:33PM

I think its good. Better to learn early days not to chance a false start because many times its that they are taking a chance (I know some will be due to nerves but its part of the game). Better to get a DQ in a Connacht Champs than say a World Juniors when you may be having exposure to the rule for the first time. Its a rule so why make exceptions. Why not enforce from day 1. Its easily fixed and kids will get used to it.

I've started doing this. In training, if anyone breaks and moves on a start whether its a 3 point or a block start they are excluded from the rest of the session. May be too harsh to try with younger ones and some may abuse if they don't want to train but I enforced it and DQed one of our sprinters from the rest of the session. She is in her mid 20's and has learned her lesson. She said she will never break again!!!

Get them used to it, its a rule so must be followed. Kids are adaptable. Relay baton changes are very complex and by and large these are strictly followed. Why not the same for starts. In older ages there are serial breakers at all levels - elite, Irish, provincial. They are chancing their arm and following habits they learned when young when racing or in training. This will rid the scourge.

Not sure about the blocks rule though other than again if the equipment is available all kids should be able to use a start block.

PS: Having said that I'll probably get DQ'd for a false start this season!!

helpisontheway · 27-11-2009 05:19PM

I actually have no problem with the rule itself once its implemented fairly and equally,i can just see myself having many agruements with officials in the season coming about it.

Will officials be able to disqualify athletes if no blocks or IAAF false start equipment are available at a competition?The wording of the rule states that an IAAF approved false start equipment must be used.

What happens if the equipment is available at a Munster Championships but not a Leinster championships and 3 athletes get disqualified from Munster due to it and none from Leinster?

In relation to u13+ athletes having to use blocks i dont know whether to take it seriously or not.That rule was circulated a few seasons back and i like a donkey taught about 40 u13-u15 athletes how to use blocks over the space of 3 weeks and when the competitions came around it was never implemented.

A Jon Drummond is definetly going to happen at some stage!:DWill it be you Tingle.
I hope you wont be making any athletes sit out a full session tommorow if they false start:eek::D

downthemiddle · 27-11-2009 05:20PM

We have a couple of top young sprinters who have already mastered gamesmanship at the start of their sprints. They will love this. This rule was brought in to prevent posturing and posing that became commonplace with the leading male sprinters in particular not to penalise young children who are being introduced to the sport.
Considering the fun they had at the starts in Kilbeggan last Sun I can only imagine what will happen on the track. I pity the coach who has to put their arm around a sobbing 10 yr old and explain why the IAAF technical committee arrived at their decision.
Most young athletes are talented at a number of different sports. I wonder will this decision help them concentrate on athletics.

downthemiddle · 27-11-2009 05:23PM

helpisontheway wrote: »

A Jon Drummond is definetly going to happen at some stage!:DWill it be you Tingle.

Tingle in roid rage shocker :eek: now that I would pay to see

thirtyfoot · 27-11-2009 05:26PM

helpisontheway wrote: »

A Jon Drummond is definetly going to happen at some stage!:DWill it be you Tingle.

Yes, I've found as I've got older and more grouchy these Jon Drummond moments are more likely to happen.

thirtyfoot · 27-11-2009 05:27PM

downthemiddle wrote: »

Tingle in roid rage shocker :eek:

Unsubstantiated allegation of drug abuse, surely warrants a site ban:D

ChickenTikka · 27-11-2009 06:25PM

Tingle wrote: »

I think its good. Better to learn early days not to chance a false start because many times its that they are taking a chance (I know some will be due to nerves but its part of the game). Better to get a DQ in a Connacht Champs than say a World Juniors when you may be having exposure to the rule for the first time. Its a rule so why make exceptions. Why not enforce from day 1. Its easily fixed and kids will get used to it.

I think its going to be very difficult to explain to a younger athlete that he is been DQ'ed because that guy over there false-started. At least they got a second chance in the older rules.

I'd have preferred a gradual progression .... 1 false start per athlete in the younger ages, 1 false start per the field in the older ages, and then introduce the no false start rule when they leave the juvenile ranks.

I think that still achieves the goal of teaching kids not to false start. I assume every coach trys to teach them that in the younger ages and isn't trying to do a tactical false start. Introducing the "zero tolerance" rule is counter-productive in my opinion and could (as downthemiddle suggests) encourage them to concentrate on a different sport where they normally get a yellow card before the red one.

daviddwyer · 27-11-2009 08:32PM

Rule 162.7 (No False Start Rule)
The new Rule requires that any athlete making a false start be disqualified (No False Start).
For combined events the new rule allows one false start and then the disqualification of any athlete breaking subsequently.

The new rule to be adopted from 01/01/2010 for U16 upwards.
For Juvenile athletes U 12 to U 15, the one false start rule to be applied and any athlete breaking subsequently will be disqualified.
For U 9 to U 11 no change from existing rules.

U16 upwards is when the no false rules come in - not U15.... but I do think that it is harsh.... these are the ages that many youngsters start their athletic training and I believe many will finish too because of these new rules...... I hope it is not brought into the schools as many schools athletes have no athletic training or experience whatsoever.

As for the starting blocks.... how many clubs and schools actually have sets of blocks!!!

downthemiddle · 27-11-2009 10:27PM

Tingle wrote: »

Unsubstantiated allegation of drug abuse, surely warrants a site ban:D

And there i was thinking I was the voice of reason on this site :P

Common Sense · 28-11-2009 12:32AM

Reading through these posts I began to wonder how many of you have attended juvenile events. Your concern for all the 10 year olds who are going to be dqed is touching but how many kids at that age do you see false starting. Having been involved for years in juvenile athletics, I found the problems with false starting didn't materialise until you reached 17 or 18.

ChickenTikka · 28-11-2009 03:00AM

Common Sense wrote: »

Reading through these posts I began to wonder how many of you have attended juvenile events. Your concern for all the 10 year olds who are going to be dqed is touching but how many kids at that age do you see false starting. Having been involved for years in juvenile athletics, I found the problems with false starting didn't materialise until you reached 17 or 18.

I must be attending different juvenile events to you because I've seen sprints recalled several times due a false start in younger ages, particularly indoors in Nenagh. An U12 team from my own club were DQ'ed in Nenagh a few years back for a false start.

helpisontheway · 28-11-2009 07:19PM

I wouldnt say it happens in some age groups more than others and i wouldnt say its widespread really.Its probably more prevelant in cross country than on track.:eek::D

I think the Munster Jun/Sen/Masters indoors on Jan 3rd is the first competition so that should be fun!I will have around 20-30 athletes competing so statistacally the first Irish athlete dqd will probably be from my club:o
Ill have the rule book with me though like Louis Walsh and will be looking for the IAAF cert for the starting equipment,ha ha.

Common Sense · 28-11-2009 09:54PM

ChickenTikka wrote: »

I must be attending different juvenile events to you because I've seen sprints recalled several times due a false start in younger ages, particularly indoors in Nenagh. An U12 team from my own club were DQ'ed in Nenagh a few years back for a false start.

My comment was in response to some of the more hysterical posts on this this topic. I was forming a picture of 100s of 10 years olds bawling their eyes out because they were disqualified. Of course younger athletes get DQd from time to time, but I still honestly believe that the real problem begins in later teens.

Rio 2016 · 28-11-2009 10:20PM

There is no way that anybody in their right frame of mind would allow this rule to be applied to juvenile events and I am sure that the AAI will bend and abuse this rule like many other rules to suit cetain folk to the detrement of others.

thirtyfoot · 28-11-2009 10:41PM

Rio 2016 wrote: »

I am sure that the AAI will bend and abuse this rule like many other rules to suit cetain folk to the detrement of others.

Yes, I believe this to be true. I have got my hands on the AAI Blackbook. It contains names of 100s of 12-15 year olds from maybe a dozen clubs who will be targeted this season and DQed. It also contains a chapter on "the untouchables" who can't be DQ'ed. There are many versions of the Blackbook though and it depends where you are from as regards who is targeted and who is untouchable.

Seriously, sometimes people refer to the AAI as if its some clandestine, stonemason style society with faceless leaders who are in it to make money and take over the world. There might be 1 or 2 of these but 99.99% of the AAI (as in you as an athlete, your coaches etc etc) are decent people who do their best and are fair.

Less focus on the conspiracy theories and more focus on the training and changing what you can change is my motto.

RoyMcC · 30-11-2009 01:52PM

Just seen this. I don't particularly agree with it and would have spoken against it had I (or anyone at my club) been given the opportunity to do so.

However we are where we are. There is now much more responsibility now on coaches to teach good practice in this area. If we have been lax in the past this must stop. Reaction work, block work etc must be done on a zero tolerence basis (as Tingle has stated) so that the youngsters

understand the importance of reacting to the gun/whistle/shout of 'Go', not anticipating it
realise the consequences of not doing so

Much training can be kept light-hearted and fun, but this is an area that from now on needs discipline from everyone involved. The coach should, amongst other things, ensure that all his/her athletes are prepared for 'holds' both short and long, depending on the Starter.

The blocks rule I simply find unnecessary, especially if they're not to be wired for electronic false starts. Many youngsters are not strong enough to use blocks properly and effectively. And, as has been said above, not all clubs have access to blocks and their young athletes will be coming across them for the first time in district competition this summer and will struggle.

However, once again it's a fait accompli and us coaches need to recognise it and prepare our athletes accordingly.

I do hope that officials implement the new rules with a soft touch.

DangerMouse27 · 01-12-2009 01:33PM

Hahaha Tingle..wouldnt it be great if it was like that...more Stonecutters from the Simpsons than StoneMasons though.

Im heading to the Munster Open in Jan,maybe just spectating but all those 60m heats should be interesting...i predict a riot!haha

application of false start rule + starting blocks

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