Falling Subs : Is it really good news?

thoscon · 24-11-2009 11:15PM

tommyfitz wrote: »

As far as I know you can join at the moment for 5k. AGM is next month. It should be interesting.

id say it would be fun.theyll do very very well to get 140 new members at 5k in the current climate.would love to join but just cant justify paying that the way things are.

rafared · 25-11-2009 01:36AM

There may be a load of propsective members from a course not a million miles away that is in serious trouble. The owners have just announced they are increasing the sub from 750 to 1250 just to keep their heads above water.

Trampas · 25-11-2009 10:10AM

With the way the weather is at the moment can only be bad for clubs.

Hoe many good weeks do we have a year?

Seems like a handful of weeks we get good weather.

People who don't play as often as some I say will be considering their membership.

I don't think my club has been open the last few weekends.

Even during the summer when we have some nice weather the course still soft under foot.

Only see bad things ahead for it

Daithio9 · 25-11-2009 10:12AM

Trampas wrote: »

With the way the weather is at the moment can only be bad for clubs.

Hoe many good weeks do we have a year?

Seems like a handful of weeks we get good weather.

People who don't play as often as some I say will be considering their membership.

I don't think my club has been open the last few weekends.

Even during the summer when we have some nice weather the course still soft under foot.

Only see bad things ahead for it

El oh el

JCDUB · 25-11-2009 01:12PM

Trampas wrote: »

Even during the summer when we have some nice weather the course still soft under foot.

Only see bad things ahead for it

That's a drainage issue tbh Trampas, which costs money to sort out.
You can't get money unless you're attracting new members/societies and maintaining or increasing your current membership levels...

The vicious circle in full effect, as being felt by many clubs around the country:(

To those of you suggesting a drop in the bar spend via the card, I disagree wholeheartedly.You have joined a members club and as such I believe you are obliged to partake in the 19th hole, even if it's just for a coffee or a sandwich.

I find it very mean-spirited of you to suggest that a golfer shouldn't have to spend €100 (the usual annual bar subscription) while dropping in for a soft drink with his playing partners after a few holes.

Every year during christmas week you see the same misers in my club coming up to spend their €100 on wine to take home before they lose it on the 31st Dec, sickening tbh. IMO if they can't spend €2 a week in their club over the course of a year, they shouldn't come up looking for wine before it's "too late." Shame on them.

Regarding our social scene in the club, our captain and lady captain decided to adopt the theme of "fun" for the year, and the bar takings are up this year on last year, amazing considering the circumstances of the past year. Fair play to the social committee for organising some very successful nights and to our members for getting into the swing of things to put a few bob back into the club.
It seems to have made a difference, long may it continue. And maybe we can spread it around a bit?If it worked for us is may work for you...

stumpypeeps · 25-11-2009 01:46PM

JCDUB wrote: »

That's a drainage issue tbh Trampas, which costs money to sort out.
You can't get money unless you're attracting new members/societies and maintaining or increasing your current membership levels...

The vicious circle in full effect, as being felt by many clubs around the country:(

Their are simply far too many golf courses operating in this country. In the current financial climate their will be a dramatic reduction in the number of clubs over the next 5 years. Those who are prepared to adjust by whatever means will have the best chance of surviving. If that means closing bar and restaurant facilities, so be it. The vast majority of golfers want to play golf. I think they will put up with no bar facilities.

bogmanfan · 25-11-2009 02:52PM

stumpypeeps wrote: »

The vast majority of golfers want to play golf. I think they will put up with no bar facilities.

I would agree with this. I've played plenty of golf in loads of different courses over the last 5 years and I could count on one hand the number of times I've gone in for a coffee or a coke after. Really not bothered whether a club has a bar or not.

conno16 · 25-11-2009 02:58PM

with respect bogman, thats possibly more a reflection on yourself than the facilities at hand
i personally dont think you're speaking on behalf of the typical irish golfer there
when i pay a green fee i expect a golf experience that includes some refreshments after the game, good facilities to change in, nice atmosphere/ambience around the place etc
we dont all change in the back of our car and rush out onto the course fyi

stumpypeeps · 25-11-2009 03:32PM

conno16 wrote: »

with respect bogman, thats possibly more a reflection on yourself than the facilities at hand
i personally dont think you're speaking on behalf of the typical irish golfer there
when i pay a green fee i expect a golf experience that includes some refreshments after the game, good facilities to change in, nice atmosphere/ambience around the place etc
we dont all change in the back of our car and rush out onto the course fyi

I know the vast majority of the people I play golf with couldn't care less about going to the bar/restaurant afterwards. It would be interesting to get other peoples take on this.

I do accept though that it's impossible to attract societies and what have you without them. Still the last two places I played the clubhouse was closed for the winter.

billy3sheets · 25-11-2009 06:23PM

I'm with Conno on this one :eek:

I do like to turn up a bit early for a coffee or hang around and have some food afterward, time permitting. Prefer a restaurant more than a bar as it's usually to early for drinks or else I'm driving.

The European Club has a nice cosy restaurant but no bar for example.

bogmanfan · 25-11-2009 07:02PM

Well just saying that I play regularly with several different groups - mates from work, mates from school, college, old job etc. and nobody is ever up for drinks etc afterwards. Just my own experience, I accept that others' experiences could be very different.

Sandwich · 25-11-2009 08:12PM

bogmanfan wrote: »

Well just saying that I play regularly with several different groups - mates from work, mates from school, college, old job etc. and nobody is ever up for drinks etc afterwards. Just my own experience, I accept that others' experiences could be very different.

Similar experience to bogmanfan. Sometimes we will, but usual only if its a special day; captains, an open and we're on holidays, big game on TV we all want to see.

Four hour on the course is usually plenty of time to shoot the breeze with all but your best pals, and sitting down for a drink afterwards can often be stretching a good thing too far. Also, golf is a time consuming game to play in the first place. Some of us are already stretching tolerance on the home front maintaining regular golf, and havent really time to add on the optional trimmings even if we wanted to.

BTW, some years ago was treasurer of my club. It runs a bar and restaurant. The restaurant was subcontracted to be cost neutral (and this was seen as a very desirable situation). The bar contributed a margin to the club coffers, but nothing worth talking about in the general turnover of the club. So while I understand 'supporting' the club for the general atmosphere and social element, the bar/restaurant are a service provided to those who want to use it. I think its unfair to be critical of those who chose not to avail as much as others.

jimjo · 26-11-2009 12:57AM

Sandwich wrote: »

Similar experience to bogmanfan. Sometimes we will, but usual only if its a special day; captains, an open and we're on holidays, big game on TV we all want to see.

Four hour on the course is usually plenty of time to shoot the breeze with all but your best pals, and sitting down for a drink afterwards can often be stretching a good thing too far. Also, golf is a time consuming game to play in the first place. Some of us are already stretching tolerance on the home front maintaining regular golf, and havent really time to add on the optional trimmings even if we wanted to.

BTW, some years ago was treasurer of my club. It runs a bar and restaurant. The restaurant was subcontracted to be cost neutral (and this was seen as a very desirable situation). The bar contributed a margin to the club coffers, but nothing worth talking about in the general turnover of the club. So while I understand 'supporting' the club for the general atmosphere and social element, the bar/restaurant are a service provided to those who want to use it. I think its unfair to be critical of those who chose not to avail as much as others.

Some very good points there.

While I’ve been on the look out for a club to join certain criteria had to be met. However by the end I just thought to myself that you can’t have everything. Although a social element in a club is important which I do really want it’s the quality of the course that’s the determining factor as to what club to join. I don’t want to dread the drive to the course on weekends and think.. ah well at least I’ll have good craic in the bar… but I hate this kip of a course. The quality of the course is the most important thing to me.

HollyEvans · 26-11-2009 01:12PM

A lot of clusb deserve all they get, the K club charging €350 for a round, and all these other clubs that took people for a ride.

Hope they all go bankrupt, there was a time a few years ago when they looked on the average golfer as a scumbag.

Mister Sifter · 26-11-2009 01:20PM

HollyEvans wrote: »

A lot of clusb deserve all they get, the K club charging €350 for a round, and all these other clubs that took people for a ride.

Hope they all go bankrupt, there was a time a few years ago when they looked on the average golfer as a scumbag.

Bit harsh... the K Club and friends were only charging €350 because people were prepared to pay it. Anyone who was prepared to pay that kind of money for a game of golf are the ones who should be laughed at.

soundsham · 26-11-2009 01:30PM

these courses and their prices excluded the very people they now want to come and support their course,
no thanks !
don't care if its the best course in the world, I would rather support the more reasonably priced clubs in my own locality for the next year or two

note don't agree with these courses viewing golfers as scumbags or want to see any course close,

rafared · 26-11-2009 05:52PM

HollyEvans wrote: »

A lot of clusb deserve all they get, the K club charging €350 for a round, and all these other clubs that took people for a ride.

Hope they all go bankrupt, there was a time a few years ago when they looked on the average golfer as a scumbag.

While I wouldnt put it as harshly as that theres some truth to what your saying. There was a definite air of snobbery around a lot of these type of courses and the ordinary joe soap golfer wasnt welcome at times.
Its ironic that these courses would welcome you with open arms now as they struggle to stay afloat.
I also agree with the post regarding supporting your local courses in difficult times.

GreeBo · 26-11-2009 05:58PM

rafared wrote: »

While I wouldnt put it as harshly as that theres some truth to what your saying. There was a definite air of snobbery around a lot of these type of courses and the ordinary joe soap golfer wasnt welcome at times.

The ordinary Joe Soap was welcomed if s/he had the cash for the green fee and acted appropriately. These courses had high standards and were able to price the undesirables out of the market, its the same with every bar/club in any city. You are not going to get the money laden corporates out if they are sharing a course/bar with lads in soccer jerseys and jeans.

rafared · 26-11-2009 06:07PM

Ive never played in jeans and a soccer jersey and I personally dont know anyone who does either. Most clubs have a basic dress code but that doesnt mean it will keep out "undesireables" as you put it.

GreeBo · 26-11-2009 06:26PM

rafared wrote: »

Ive never played in jeans and a soccer jersey and I personally dont know anyone who does either. Most clubs have a basic dress code but that doesnt mean it will keep out "undesireables" as you put it.

Well then in what way do you feel that the ordinary Joe Soap was unwelcome?
I've never had any issue playing at any club in the country.

soundsham · 26-11-2009 10:21PM

GreeBo wrote: »

The ordinary Joe Soap was welcomed if s/he had the cash for the green fee and acted appropriately. These courses had high standards and were able to price the undesirables out of the market, its the same with every bar/club in any city. You are not going to get the money laden corporates out if they are sharing a course/bar with lads in soccer jerseys and jeans.

Good luck in the new job and all but thats a bit of a strange post I think,
you seem to have attatched the undesirable tag to people who may not have had €350 or similar €'s to pay green fees,

cant say I've ever seen guys out playing in jeans & soccer jerseys in any course have you ?

rafared · 27-11-2009 01:15AM

soundsham wrote: »

Good luck in the new job and all but thats a bit of a strange post I think,
you seem to have attatched the undesirable tag to people who may not have had €350 or similar €'s to pay green fees,

cant say I've ever seen guys out playing in jeans & soccer jerseys in any course have you ?

Im glad im not the only one who thought this.

rafared · 27-11-2009 01:19AM

GreeBo wrote: »

Well then in what way do you feel that the ordinary Joe Soap was unwelcome?
I've never had any issue playing at any club in the country.

I wont name the club but its in west wicklow. The atmosphere wasnt welcoming to non members at all, there was a seperate area in the bar for
non members and we were reminded to keep out of the members area.
I wouldnt class our group as undesirables or football shirts and jeans wearers either just in case you are wondering.

Mister Sifter · 27-11-2009 10:35AM

GreeBo wrote: »

The ordinary Joe Soap was welcomed if s/he had the cash for the green fee and acted appropriately. These courses had high standards and were able to price the undesirables out of the market, its the same with every bar/club in any city. You are not going to get the money laden corporates out if they are sharing a course/bar with lads in soccer jerseys and jeans.

You're not seriously branding every golfer in the country who couldn't afford/weren't willing to pay €350 for a round of golf as 'undesirables'?

GreeBo · 27-11-2009 11:28AM

soundsham wrote: »

Good luck in the new job and all but thats a bit of a strange post I think,
you seem to have attatched the undesirable tag to people who may not have had €350 or similar €'s to pay green fees,

Mister Sifter wrote: »

You're not seriously branding every golfer in the country who couldn't afford/weren't willing to pay €350 for a round of golf as 'undesirables'?

I think you are misunderstanding the point Im making.
I'm not deeming them undesirable, the clubs are. I assume you will agree that while some clubs are happy to let anyone play others are not. Hence these other clubs do not desire some people, ergo they are undesirable?

The easiest way for any entity to exclude people they dont want is to price them out of it. Typically the sort of people you do not want are the same people who could not afford/are unwilling to pay your higher prices.

soundsham wrote: »

cant say I've ever seen guys out playing in jeans & soccer jerseys in any course have you ?

I have seen people play in jeans and t-shirts many times actually.

GreeBo · 27-11-2009 11:29AM

rafared wrote: »

I wont name the club but its in west wicklow. The atmosphere wasnt welcoming to non members at all, there was a seperate area in the bar for
non members and we were reminded to keep out of the members area.

Are there other things that made you feel unwelcome or just the fact that they had separate areas?
I know lots of clubs (not just golf) that have this setup and dont see any issue with it at all? Its not like they made you sit outside on the ground with a soggy sambo?

george67 · 27-11-2009 12:08PM

HollyEvans wrote: »

A lot of clusb deserve all they get, the K club charging €350 for a round, and all these other clubs that took people for a ride.

Hope they all go bankrupt, there was a time a few years ago when they looked on the average golfer as a scumbag.

I beg to differ on the K club .I always found I was treated well when I played in their opens (€60) very open and friendly .

Unlike some older clubs where you got the impression they didn't want you there at all no matter how much you payed . :mad:

Mister Sifter · 27-11-2009 12:20PM

GreeBo wrote: »

I think you are misunderstanding the point Im making.
I'm not deeming them undesirable, the clubs are. I assume you will agree that while some clubs are happy to let anyone play others are not. Hence these other clubs do not desire some people, ergo they are undesirable?

The easiest way for any entity to exclude people they dont want is to price them out of it. Typically the sort of people you do not want are the same people who could not afford/are unwilling to pay your higher prices.

I don't see it like that. As i said earlier, the likes of the K Club had a product which people were prepared to pay big money for. They built up an illusion about their product that it was worth €300 odd to play. For a long time they got away with it too.

GreeBo · 27-11-2009 12:31PM

Mister Sifter wrote: »

I don't see it like that. As i said earlier, the likes of the K Club had a product which people were prepared to pay big money for. They built up an illusion about their product that it was worth €300 odd to play. For a long time they got away with it too.

Yeah but the product was more than just the quality of the golf course.(Its certainly not 6 times better than Headford for example) It was the atmosphere, the exclusivity of it. Thats what a lot of corporate golf outings want and they cant charge them vastly different prices then the guy who just turns up to play so everyone pays the high rate.

I would argue that the K club had no interest in having a gang of 20 lads on a stag weekend, a lot of whom dont really play golf, on their course. €300+ excludes most if not all of these groups, wouldnt you agree? Lots of courses have no issue with this and so charge appropriately.
In the past these course would rather be empty on a Friday than have a bunch of lads on it as the corporate event over the weekend would more than make up for the lost greenfees.

Today thats not the case so we are seeing changes.

george67 · 27-11-2009 12:34PM

Mister Sifter wrote: »

I don't see it like that. As i said earlier, the likes of the K Club had a product which people were prepared to pay big money for. They built up an illusion about their product that it was worth €300 odd to play. For a long time they got away with it too.

In general it was the tourists that payed the big green fees (americans and japanese) with the stay and play option .
They provided good employment for caddies in the area

Falling Subs : Is it really good news?

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