Advertisement
Help Keep Boards Alive. Support us by going ad free today. See here: https://subscriptions.boards.ie/.
https://www.boards.ie/group/1878-subscribers-forum

Private Group for paid up members of Boards.ie. Join the club.
Hi all, please see this major site announcement: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058427594/boards-ie-2026

Are all irish people to blame for the abuse in the Catholic Church?

  • 26-11-2009 09:24PM
    #1
    Spacedog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,775 ✭✭✭


    Since when the government decided to limit the liability of the Church, long before the extent of the abuse was known, and that it is now known that the church knew the true extent of the abuse (and the projected financial liability) and covered up, then accepted the settlement of liability.

    Seems to me that the Irish people were perfectly happy with this situation. We were and ARE all perfectly happy to foot the full bill of liability, through taxation, in a time of recession for crimes we did not commit, did not cover up, and had no control over what so ever.

    Those responsible are:

    1) The individuals who perpetrated the abuse (many have escaped justice)
    2) The Catholic Church upper hierarchy from Archbishops upwards to the Pope in Dublin and in Rome who limited their liability through careful management and manipulation of law, political influence, and public relations.
    3) The Public Services and past Government for turning their backs on these crimes and having faith in the Church to do the right thing at it's own expense, instead of following an ethical criminal process. (perhaps for fear of political unpopularity by a still largely faithful public.)
    4) The Government of the present for promising action to the reporters and the press, but will say or do nothing else until the next report comes out in 10 years time...
    5) The Irish People for being aware of this exact situation long before this report was published, and not having the courage, passion or the balls to demand justice from the perpetrators, or severe financial penalties from the institution that allowed it.


    OK Rant Over, mods feel free to lock the thread for flaming like you did with the last one I posted a few weeks ago when the issue didn't matter to anyone...

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055711729

    I'll post another one in 10 years ;) good luck.


«1345

Comments

  • #2
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,779 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Spacedog wrote: »
    Since when the government decided to limit the liability of the Church, long before the extent of the abuse was known, and that it is now known that the church knew the true extent of the abuse (and the projected financial liability) and covered up, then accepted the settlement of liability.

    Seems to me that the Irish people were perfectly happy with this situation. We were and ARE all perfectly happy to foot the full bill of liability, through taxation, in a time of recession for crimes we did not commit, did not cover up, and had no control over what so ever.

    Those responsible are:

    1) The individuals who perpetrated the abuse (many have escaped justice)
    2) The Catholic Church upper hierarchy from Archbishops upwards to the Pope in Dublin and in Rome who limited their liability through careful management and manipulation of law, political influence, and public relations.
    3) The Public Services and past Government for turning their backs on these crimes and having faith in the Church to do the right thing at it's own expense, instead of following an ethical criminal process. (perhaps for fear of political unpopularity by a still largely faithful public.)
    4) The Government of the present for promising action to the reporters and the press, but will say or do nothing else until the next report comes out in 10 years time...
    5) The Irish People for being aware of this exact situation long before this report was published, and not having the courage, passion or the balls to demand justice from the perpetrators, or severe financial penalties from the institution that allowed it.


    OK Rant Over, mods feel free to lock the thread for flaming like you did with the last one I posted a few weeks ago when the issue didn't matter to anyone...

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055711729

    I'll post another one in 10 years ;) good luck.

    Haven't read your post, but in answer to your thread title... No. Stop being silly.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • #3
    Fuhrer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,661 ✭✭✭Fuhrer


    No.


  • #4
    TheZohanS
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,581 ✭✭✭✭TheZohanS


    No.


  • #5
    thomond2006
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    Dear God No!


  • #6
    mike65
    Closed Accounts Posts: 88,968 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    Only those who abused, those who had the power to stop the abuse, those who had the power to prosecute the abusers and those who knew or seriously suspected something but said nothing are to blame.

    Dunno how many that is.


  • Advertisement
  • #7
    Dionysus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,420 ✭✭✭Dionysus


    Spacedog wrote: »
    Since when the government decided to limit the liability of the Church, long before the extent of the abuse was known, and that it is now known that the church knew the true extent of the abuse (and the projected financial liability) and covered up, then accepted the settlement of liability.

    Seems to me that the Irish people were perfectly happy with this situation. We were and ARE all perfectly happy to foot the full bill of liability, through taxation, in a time of recession for crimes we did not commit, did not cover up, and had no control over what so ever.

    Those responsible are:

    1) The individuals who perpetrated the abuse (many have escaped justice)
    2) The Catholic Church upper hierarchy from Archbishops upwards to the Pope in Dublin and in Rome who limited their liability through careful management and manipulation of law, political influence, and public relations.
    3) The Public Services and past Government for turning their backs on these crimes and having faith in the Church to do the right thing at it's own expense, instead of following an ethical criminal process. (perhaps for fear of political unpopularity by a still largely faithful public.)
    4) The Government of the present for promising action to the reporters and the press, but will say or do nothing else until the next report comes out in 10 years time...
    5) The Irish People for being aware of this exact situation long before this report was published, and not having the courage, passion or the balls to demand justice from the perpetrators, or severe financial penalties from the institution that allowed it.


    OK Rant Over, mods feel free to lock the thread for flaming like you did with the last one I posted a few weeks ago when the issue didn't matter to anyone...

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055711729

    I'll post another one in 10 years ;) good luck.

    Well, with the exception of much derided "radicals" like Peadar O Donnell, there was a fairly strong "shut mouth catches no flies" consensus in Irish society which revolved around unquestioning support for the Catholic Church.


  • #8
    Latchy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,190 ✭✭✭✭Latchy


    Up against the all mighty powerful catholic church ? ...good gawd no


  • #9
    MrStuffins
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,650 ✭✭✭✭MrStuffins


    Spacedog wrote: »
    Are all irish people to blame for the abuse in the Catholic Church?

    No


  • #10
    brian ireland
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,647 ✭✭✭brian ireland


    Yeah but, no but, yeah but, no!!!!!


  • #11
    phasers
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,159 ✭✭✭✭phasers


    No


  • Advertisement
  • #12
    bronte
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,331 ✭✭✭✭bronte


    No


  • #13
    thomond2006
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    /Awaits random user to say yes.


  • #14
    sold
    Closed Accounts Posts: 285 ✭✭sold


    NO


  • #15
    nlgbbbblth
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,668 ✭✭✭nlgbbbblth


    Spacedog wrote: »
    Those responsible are:

    1) The individuals who perpetrated the abuse (many have escaped justice)
    mike65 wrote: »
    Only those who abused

    There's your answer.

    Want to blame someone?

    Blame the abusers and no one else.

    Might seem obvious but it's the right answer. Ever heard of personal responsibility?


  • #16
    drkpower
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,474 ✭✭✭drkpower


    mike65 wrote: »
    ..... and those who knew or seriously suspected something but said nothing are to blame.
    .

    Sadly, this is the key and its why so many are to blame. The majority knew, possibly not the full extent, but they knew. For anyone of a certain age, we all remember the jokes that would be told about the dodgy christian brother at school - that didnt come from nothing; there was a widespread knowledge that 'something' was going on and the average Joe wasnt strong enough to make an issue of it.


  • #17
    partyatmygaff
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,992 ✭✭✭✭partyatmygaff


    If it was a teacher who was an abuser would you be asking the same question?


  • #18
    segaBOY
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,563 ✭✭✭segaBOY


    Is Spacedog to blame for global warming?

    Awaits answers.


  • #19
    Nevyn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 43,043 ✭✭✭✭Nevyn


    All that is needed for the forces of evil to succeed is for enough good men to remain silent.


  • #20
    partyatmygaff
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,992 ✭✭✭✭partyatmygaff


    Thaedydal wrote: »
    All that is needed for the forces of evil to succeed is for enough good men to remain silent.
    But when the good men do not know or are unsure they are absolved of blame and responsibility.


  • #21
    Lizzzard
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81 ✭✭Lizzzard


    a definate NO!!! How could this even be asked?????


  • Advertisement
  • #22
    Latchy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,190 ✭✭✭✭Latchy


    nlgbbbblth wrote: »
    Blame the abusers and no one else.

    Might seem obvious but it's the right answer. Ever heard of personal responsibility?
    The vast majority of the general public know the difference betweeen right and wrong .Maybe with the abusers it's a form of collective amnesia ie, if we all think it's not wrong , it's not wrong


  • #23
    Prof.Badass
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,931 ✭✭✭Prof.Badass


    Well they don't bear full responsibility, but a very small amount yes.


  • #24
    Nevyn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 43,043 ✭✭✭✭Nevyn


    Today's reports were not about the abuse it was about the cover up of abuse by the church.

    They took out insurance, they knew it was happening, they covered it up, they didn't report the crimes, they got those crimes when reported swept under the carpet, the moved priests around and didn't defrock them and when it looked like it was going to become public, they took out insurance against claims against them.

    They took out insurance.

    Frankly a conspiracy on that level need many many 'good' people to make it work.


  • #25
    stovelid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,252 ✭✭✭✭stovelid


    Easy to say it now.

    Ask somebody who is typically representative of my parent's generation - in their late 60s/early 70s and from a poor family that grew up in a small Irish rural community about how hard it must have been to challenge the church in your community.

    Kudos for your bravery in fearlessly apportioning blame to the average person - decades later - from behind your computer though.


  • #26
    pathway33
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,229 ✭✭✭pathway33


    All the irish people who knew what was going on are to blame for the abuse in the catholic church.

    This includes all those non-priest people who locked up churches in parishes every evening and saw incidents of abuse but turned a blind eye.

    It includes all those teachers who knew they had a dodgy priest on the staff and turned a blind eye to witnessed abuse.

    It includes all the doctors and nurses in hospitals who knew there was a dodgy priest on the hospital staff and witnessed abuse but turned a blind eye.

    And these are the people on joe duffy fighting for pensioners rights. Shame on them all.


  • #27
    Nevyn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 43,043 ✭✭✭✭Nevyn


    My grandmother challenged the church in her community, she and the other women of the parish boycotted the church on a few occasions until certain priests were removed, if she was till alive today she'd have been 89.

    Doing the right thing, standing up for those who need you to is often not easy but that is when it is even more important to do so.


  • #28
    louisa200
    Closed Accounts Posts: 78 ✭✭louisa200


    what i dont understand is how can any organisation take out insurance against claims of physical and sexual abuse.. and if they did then the insurance company who allowed this cover has as much if not more responsibility than the average joe blogg catholic on the street..
    how and ever, i do think the population of ireland who idolised the church without question in the last 30 or so years does have a responsibility too.. blind faith gets no one anywhere, and the power these people had could only have been got by the masocistical feelings of its flock.. no one should trust anyone with their children.. a lesson learned i hope x


  • #29
    drkpower
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,474 ✭✭✭drkpower


    stovelid wrote: »
    Kudos for your bravery in fearlessly apportioning blame to the average person - decades later - from behind your computer though.

    I dont know about Thaedayal but I would blame myself, my parents, my relations, also. We all knew 'something' was up. I dont think the average Joe wanted to face the issue. We dont carry anywhere near the same culpability as the abusers and the conspirators but there is plenty of blame to go round on this one and we deserve some.


  • #30
    louisa200
    Closed Accounts Posts: 78 ✭✭louisa200


    and my partner (a 30 something irish catholic) has always maintained that they are all dirty bsatrds.. the question is how will the catholic church respond to this feeling... serious reform or nothing.. their donation plates will be down this week methinks x


  • Advertisement
  • #31
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 31,828 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    stovelid wrote: »
    Easy to say it now.

    Ask somebody who is typically representative of my parent's generation - in their late 60s/early 70s and from a poor family that grew up in a small Irish rural community about how hard it must have been to challenge the church in your community.

    Kudos for your bravery in fearlessly apportioning blame to the average person - decades later - from behind your computer though.
    So true, any descenting voices were soon silenced! The mass emigration at the time probably helped because those outspoken ones were more likely to leave than fight the "establishment".

    edit: fair play to your gran Thaedayal.


Advertisement
Advertisement