Motor tax while driving abroad.

CiniO · 20-11-2009 11:35PM #1

It's perfectly clear that every car registered in Ireland has to display motor tax disc while driving or parking on Irish public roads.

But what in case someone is taking car abroad for longer time (I mean at least few months).
Foreign police has nothing to do with Irish motortax.
Thay can check if you got current insurance and nct. They will also ask you for driving licence and car registration documents (log book) - worth to know you have to have it with you all the time while driving in foreing country.

Anyway, thay have nothing to do with Irish motor tax.

Am I right then, that for the period while someone's driving in foreign country, motor tax is not obligatory?

Has anyone any experience with it?

slimjimmc · 21-11-2009 01:05AM

As I understand it you must have motor tax paid to your EU state while driving in the EU. This means you can drive anywhere in the EU on Irish motor tax until it expires. Once it expires you're no longer road legal and can then be pulled & fined by the cops in each country you drive in.

I don't know what happens if you take you car out of the EU or the EC, there might be local motor tax laws to comply with.

21-11-2009 03:06AM

slimjimmc wrote: »

As I understand it you must have motor tax paid to your EU state while driving in the EU. This means you can drive anywhere in the EU on Irish motor tax until it expires. Once it expires you're no longer road legal and can then be pulled & fined by the cops in each country you drive in.

I don't know what happens if you take you car out of the EU or the EC, there might be local motor tax laws to comply with.

Irish tax is of absolutely no concern to anybody outside Ireland and if I was confronted about it abroad the person would be told to mind their own business(but maybe not so politely)

CiniO · 21-11-2009 03:22AM

slimjimmc wrote: »

As I understand it you must have motor tax paid to your EU state while driving in the EU. This means you can drive anywhere in the EU on Irish motor tax until it expires. Once it expires you're no longer road legal and can then be pulled & fined by the cops in each country you drive in.

I wouldn't be so sure about it.
Requirement for road tax is not from Road Traffic Act, but from Finance Act. It's required for vehicles on public roads in Ireland.
Every EU country in it's Road Traffic Act, specifies what is required from vehilcles registered abroad.
Anyway all European countries signed Vienna Convention, whih expects drivers to have registration certificate (log book) and driving licence with them. Some other regulations (I'm not sure which) expects drivers to have proof of insurance. But there is nothing mentioned about road tax.
Looking at this, there's a conclusion, that none foreign country's police can chceck if you have valid Irish road tax. It's not an interest of them.

Besides, many European countries don't have such thing as road tax at all.
Seems that road tax is the revenue thing, and has really nothing to do with road traffic.
Anyone coming to Ireland with car registered in other EU country, doesn't have to display any road tax.

That's what I think.
But I might be wrong.

Marlow · 21-11-2009 05:01AM

Most of the european countries have some sort of road tax system, but it only applies to cars registered in each particular country.

In Germany you have special number plates, if you only drive the car part time of the year.

Most of the counties I've lived in, the roadtax is paid directly by post or DD equivalent to customs, should you not pay, the police will come and collect your registration number plates, which are government issue.

Ireland is unique in the way, that you can declare your car off the road and not pay tax for a while and that your registration plates aren't government issue.

Bottom line: When not in Ireland, you will have to have proof of ownership for your car (i've been stopped without the logbook in the Netherlands before, but had the insurance papers, that was enough. Having the logbook is always a good idea though) and a drivers license. Anything else is none of their concern. Even an NCT is something they won't/can't check as every country handels it differently. The whole thing with displaying tax, nct, insurance is something that isn't really used anywhere on the continent mainland.

Mind you, check your insurance. Some insurances have a term, for how long you can be out of the country at any given time without invalidating your insurance.

/M

CiniO · 21-11-2009 12:48PM

Marlow wrote: »

Most of the european countries have some sort of road tax system, but it only applies to cars registered in each particular country.

In Germany you have special number plates, if you only drive the car part time of the year.

Most of the counties I've lived in, the roadtax is paid directly by post or DD equivalent to customs, should you not pay, the police will come and collect your registration number plates, which are government issue.

Ireland is unique in the way, that you can declare your car off the road and not pay tax for a while and that your registration plates aren't government issue.

In some countries road tax is included in pertol price.

Bottom line: When not in Ireland, you will have to have proof of ownership for your car (i've been stopped without the logbook in the Netherlands before, but had the insurance papers, that was enough. Having the logbook is always a good idea though) and a drivers license. Anything else is none of their concern. Even an NCT is something they won't/can't check as every country handels it differently. The whole thing with displaying tax, nct, insurance is something that isn't really used anywhere on the continent mainland.

You were lucky the didn't impounded your car in Netherlandl, if you were driving without logbook. It's your obligatory to carry logbook with you at all times when travelling abroad. It's legal requirement of Vienna Convention which was signed by all EU countries.

Besides they can check NCT. It's their concern to make sure car is roadworthy. And as a proof thay can accept test certifiace from country of registration. So I would advise carrying NCT certificate with you also at all times when driving abroad.
Hence that in some countries proof of your test is just a stamp in registration certificate which has to be carried with you at all times.

And you are right that displaying discs with tax, nct and insurance is not something that works on the continent. Anyway you still some proof of nct and insurance when driving there.

Mind you, check your insurance. Some insurances have a term, for how long you can be out of the country at any given time without invalidating your insurance.

/M

That only applies to comprehensive cover. This it up to insurance company what they offer in this kind of cover.

But obligatory third party insurance (which is always included in comprehensive cover) is regulated by government law, and insurance comapnies can't change anything in this reguations.
This regulation says, that you are covered for whole period of your insurance in whole EU - no matter if you tell them or not. They don't have to agree. It's something that is regulated by government insurance act.

Anyway, if you got comprehensive cover it's always good to inform insurance company, and make sure your full cover applies for the whole period of journey.
But even in case you have to stay abroad longer, and exceed the period allowed by insurance company, you still have third party cover.

Marlow · 21-11-2009 02:03PM

CiniO wrote: »

You were lucky the didn't impounded your car in Netherlandl, if you were driving without logbook. It's your obligatory to carry logbook with you at all times when travelling abroad. It's legal requirement of Vienna Convention which was signed by all EU countries.

That might very well be, but as long as you can proof one way or the other that the car belongs to you and you don't upset them, I've never seen them do that.

Also, you don't need the logbook itself, a copy of it is enough. A lot of rental companies will not supply you with a logbook, even when you state that you are going to go across borders. Having the logbook in many countries is regarded as ownership, even if your name isn't on the logbook.

I don't know about the south, but in the north of Europe that's commonly accepted and will never give you any hassle. I travel a lot, especially France, Belgium, Netherlands, Germany, Denmark, Sweden etc. and never had a problem. The only problem you can have is in eastern european countries, where they simply won't let you into the country without the logbook.

And as for road tax, at least Denmark and Germany require both the payment of road tax, petrol tax and road toll in certain places and for some vehicles. Obviously road tax only applies to nationally registered vehicles.

/M

JHMEG · 21-11-2009 02:26PM

You don't need Irish motortax abroad.
You don't need a valid NCT abroad.
You are unlikely to have a car impounded under the Vienna Convention.
You need to inform your insurance company if you are going abroad. Most will only offer cover for 30 days.

testicle · 21-11-2009 02:31PM

CiniO wrote: »

Besides they can check NCT. It's their concern to make sure car is roadworthy. And as a proof thay can accept test certifiace from country of registration. So I would advise carrying NCT certificate with you also at all times when driving abroad.

:eek:

The NCT is not a Certificate of Roadworthiness!

Marlow · 21-11-2009 02:32PM

JHMEG wrote: »

You don't need a valid NCT abroad.

Yep. They don't care about NCT, they will however care, if your car isn't roadworthy by their estimation and make you fix it before you are allowed to travel any further.

/M

niceirishfella · 21-11-2009 02:39PM

I went to the Uk in a Range Rover I had in on trade a while back.
I had No tax, and was stopped by plod over there, they asked me my name, asked for some ID, showed them my licence, they looked in the widscreen but said nothing. He had a bit of banter with me (he had family in leitrim) and wished me well on my onward journey.

All in all, no one can does anything to you re; tax and the like outside this juristiction.

Our man in Havana · 21-11-2009 03:05PM

The problems can start as soon as you return to Ireland and drive off the ferry in Rosslare or Dublin. I know of people getting caught in Rosslare as soon as they drive onto Irish soil.

corktina · 21-11-2009 03:10PM

drive abroad without the proper documentation at your peril, some cops will simply impound your car and carry you off to the station and you will have a LOT of hassle before you can sort it out. Its one thing arguing what you need or dont need on here, its another with a foreign cop....

K-9 · 21-11-2009 03:20PM

niceirishfella wrote: »

I went to the Uk in a Range Rover I had in on trade a while back.
I had No tax, and was stopped by plod over there, they asked me my name, asked for some ID, showed them my licence, they looked in the widscreen but said nothing. He had a bit of banter with me (he had family in leitrim) and wished me well on my onward journey.

All in all, no one can does anything to you re; tax and the like outside this juristiction.

The DVLA are now clamping Southern cars in NI. Happened to 2 people I know of.

niceirishfella · 21-11-2009 03:21PM

K-9 wrote: »

The DVLA are now clamping Southern cars in NI. Happened to 2 people I know of.

there's feck all they can do only give you a hard time for a bit and inconvience you. I'm in NI twice weekly, and have been stopped, with no issues.

K-9 · 21-11-2009 03:40PM

niceirishfella wrote: »

there's feck all they can do only give you a hard time for a bit and inconvience you. I'm in NI twice weekly, and have been stopped, with no issues.

Bit harder when it's clamped.

corktina · 21-11-2009 03:43PM

=they can seize your car and leave you walk...thats not F-all in my book.

corktina · 21-11-2009 03:45PM

course they can, its their country....:rolleyes:

Our man in Havana · 21-11-2009 03:47PM

I have encountered problems in Hungary where the authorities needed the log book to pay the Hungarian motorway tolls.
It pays to carry it with you, even if only heading to Newry for the cheap booze.

niceirishfella · 21-11-2009 04:37PM

K-9 wrote: »

Bit harder when it's clamped.

To be clear, i'm not condoning travelling to any other juristician without all your paperwork in place.
But, In my experience there's not much obsticles, but as I say, that's just my experience.
re; being clamped, you pay to get declamped.
re; Seizing the car/vehicle, you pay to get it back out.
Thats life and the risk anyone runs.

cadete · 21-11-2009 07:22PM

JHMEG wrote: »

You don't need Irish motortax abroad.
You don't need a valid NCT abroad.
You are unlikely to have a car impounded under the Vienna Convention.
You need to inform your insurance company if you are going abroad. Most will only offer cover for 30 days.

Point 1 - you do need valid tax in the uk,
Point 2 - you do need valid nct
point 3 - they can clamp/impound/destroy your vehicle

Stopped yesterday in my brothers car(no tax), fined £260, will get £160 back on producing valid tax within 14 days, car was clamped and had to pay or it was going to the pound. DVLA stopping just inside the border on brandywell way into derry.

Marlow · 21-11-2009 07:27PM

cadete wrote: »

Point 1 - you do need valid tax in the uk,
Point 2 - you do need valid nct
point 3 - they can clamp/impound/destroy your vehicle

Stopped yesterday in my brothers car(no tax), fined £260, will get £160 back on producing valid tax within 14 days, car was clamped and had to pay or it was going to the pound. DVLA stopping just inside the border on brandywell way into derry.

That has less to do with the general issue outside the republic and more with, that the DVLNI (DVLA is UK mainland) now go hand in hand with revenue here in the republic. Still, that wouldn't happen on continent mainland, because they have no such thing as display tax or tax documentation.

Same as, that they now exchange information on banned driving license, etc.

/M

K-9 · 21-11-2009 08:09PM

cadete wrote: »

Point 1 - you do need valid tax in the uk,
Point 2 - you do need valid nct
point 3 - they can clamp/impound/destroy your vehicle

Stopped yesterday in my brothers car(no tax), fined £260, will get £160 back on producing valid tax within 14 days, car was clamped and had to pay or it was going to the pound. DVLA stopping just inside the border on brandywell way into derry.

Same happening in Strabane. Nice big car park full of Southern regs to pick on.

21-11-2009 08:35PM

cadete wrote: »

Point 1 - you do need valid tax in the uk,
Point 2 - you do need valid nct
point 3 - they can clamp/impound/destroy your vehicle

Stopped yesterday in my brothers car(no tax), fined £260, will get £160 back on producing valid tax within 14 days, car was clamped and had to pay or it was going to the pound. DVLA stopping just inside the border on brandywell way into derry.

Why on earth have they any right to stop a car without Irish tax its nothing to do with them.

An nct is nothing to do with them.

If I was clamped this would be my solution:

http://www.usastihl.com/construction/cutquik.html

corktina · 21-11-2009 10:33PM

because its their country and their rules....

CiniO · 22-11-2009 12:55AM

Marlow wrote: »

That might very well be, but as long as you can proof one way or the other that the car belongs to you and you don't upset them, I've never seen them do that.

If you don't upset the police, you can miss much more than document.
Anyway they still are allowed to impound your car in this case.

Also, you don't need the logbook itself, a copy of it is enough.

It's not enough.
I understand that for many policemans it can be enough.
But there are specific regulations.

Part of Vienna Convention:

1.
(a)
In order to be entitled to the benefits of this Convention, every
motor vehicle in international traffic, and every trailer, other than a light
trailer, coupled to a motor vehicle shall be registered by a Contracting Party or
a subdivision thereof, and the driver of the motor vehicle shall carry a valid
certificate of such registration issued either by a competent authority of such
Contracting Party or subdivision thereof or on behalf and by authorization of such Contracting Party or subdivision thereof by an association duly empowered
thereto by that Contracting Party or subdivision thereof. This certificate, to be
known as the registration certificate, shall bear the following particulars at
least:
A serial number, to be known as the registration number, composed in the
manner indicated in Annex 2 to this Convention;
The date of first registration of the vehicle;
The full name and home address of the holder of the certificate;
The name or the trade mark of the maker of the vehicle;
The serial number of the chassis (the maker's production or serial number);
In the case of a vehicle intended for the carriage of goods, the permissible
maximum mass;
In the case of a vehicle intended for the carriage of goods, the unladen
mass;
The period of validity, if not unlimited.
The particulars entered in the certificate shall either be in Latin
characters or so-called English cursive script only, or be repeated in that form.
(b)
Contracting Parties or subdivisions thereof may, however, decide that
the year of manufacture, instead of the date of first registration, shall be
entered on certificates issued in their territories.
(c)
In the case of motor vehicles of categories A and B as defined in
Annexes 6 and 7 to this Convention and, if possible, for other motor vehicles:
(i)
The certificate shall be headed with the distinguishing sign of
the State of registration as defined in annex 3 to this
Convention;
The letters A, B, C, D, E, F, G and H respectively shall be
placed before or after the eight items of information which are
required under subparagraph (a) of this paragraph, to be shown
on all registration certificates;
The words Certificat d'immatriculation in French may be placed
either before or after the title of the certificate in the
national language (or languages) of the country of registration.
(ii)
(iii)
(d)
For trailers, including semi-trailers, imported temporarily into a
country by a mode of transport other than road transport, a photocopy of the
registration certificate, certified as a true copy by the authority which issued
the certificate, shall be considered sufficient.

It says clearly that you have to carry registrations certificate (in origianal) with you at all times when driving abroad.

CiniO · 22-11-2009 01:00AM

JHMEG wrote: »

You don't need Irish motortax abroad.
You don't need a valid NCT abroad.
You are unlikely to have a car impounded under the Vienna Convention.
You need to inform your insurance company if you are going abroad. Most will only offer cover for 30 days.

You need to have valid NCT.
All EU countries have obligatory vehicle testing. And they might ask you, if your car is tested.

With insurance I already wrote, that it might offer you comprehensive cover abroad for restricted time.
But you still have third party cover anyway, no matter if you inform them that you are going or not.
Third party is for all the EU

CiniO · 22-11-2009 01:03AM

testicle wrote: »

:eek:

The NCT is not a Certificate of Roadworthiness!

I never wrote it was.
But literally speaking, it's almost the same.

NCT is just for cars. They test cars and issue NCT certificate, which is a proof that during the test car was in roadworthy condition.

DOE is for vans, commercials and buses, and when passed, you can apply for Certificate of Roadworthiness, which is the proof of exactly the same as NCT certificate - that vehicle during test was in roadworthy condition.

JHMEG · 22-11-2009 12:23PM

CiniO wrote: »

It says clearly that you have to carry registrations certificate (in origianal) with you at all times when driving abroad.

It's a convention, not statue.

Our man in Havana · 22-11-2009 01:54PM

Ignore it at your peril.

Marlow · 22-11-2009 02:25PM

CiniO wrote: »

I never wrote it was.
But literally speaking, it's almost the same.

NCT is just for cars. They test cars and issue NCT certificate, which is a proof that during the test car was in roadworthy condition.

DOE is for vans, commercials and buses, and when passed, you can apply for Certificate of Roadworthiness, which is the proof of exactly the same as NCT certificate - that vehicle during test was in roadworthy condition.

The reason why you don't need to proof that you've passed an NCT is, because not every country issues a certificate. In some countries, the police just collects your registration plates, if your NCT is overdue (Denmark) in other countries you've got a sticker on the rear registration plate indication, when your NCT (or equivalent) expires (Sweden, Norway, Germany). As there is no general rule for how it's done, all the police can do is inspect your car and if they think it isn't road worthy make you fix it. You don't need the cert.

And as JHMEG stated, the Vienna Convention is not a statue. What is in the Vienna Convention only becomes a statue, when the individual countries convert it to law and that's only done where it's necessary. The Vienna Convention is a guideline, that the signing countries agreed to.

As for your cars taxation, road worthyness etc. you still have to adhere to each individuals countries laws and if you don't do that, they won't let you in or throw you out. It has nothing to do with the Vienna Convention. Take Switzerland: Breaking the speed limit will give you a huge fine and an escort to the border !! Bye bye.

/M

Motor tax while driving abroad.

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