Public Service Strike Thread

Wertz · 19-11-2009 09:46PM

Okay so benchmarking didn't apply to you. You came late to the party or got shafted by agreements that you weren't privvy to...

Do you refuse to accept that across nearly all sectors of the public services that wages rose in line with what the private sector rates were through benchmarking over the course of the boom? What about the increases to the numbers of PS workers across many of the different sectors?

8.5% over the past 8 years? That wouldn't even account for the inflation over the same period and in real terms your salary would have been even lower so we'd have seen strike action before this.

I don't know what the various acronyms stand for but I'm guessing that those are fairly low ranking positions (not trying to be insulting here, I genuinely don't know). If that is the case, I have to say (and this applies to ALL wage cuts being sought by government and private employers) that to lower wage rates by teh same percentile across the board is patently unfair. Someone getting 50K getting a 10% cut may loose more money, but relatively speaking the person on 25K looses a lot more in terms of spnding power for their overall salary.

As for paycuts? Try 100%.
...and I don't mean from employed to dole queue, I mean 100%.

At the risk of sounding like every other anti-PS post on here, the money simply isn't there to pay all of you at the levels you'd like. Tax take has fallen because thousands of taxpayers like myself are paying less or no tax because of lower wage rates, shorter hours or lack of job, and because the SW bill has almost trebled in 2 yrs and because there was such a mess made in the banking and property sectors.
Unions and strikes aren't going to fix any of that, no matter how much you want them to...it isn't simply about government spin, which is admittedly a problem...the writing is on the wall for anyone to look at...people that can't see it are either deluding themselves or lacking in basic maths skills.

pajodublin · 19-11-2009 09:52PM

Wertz wrote: »

Okay so benchmarking didn't apply to you. You came late to the party or got shafted by agreements that you weren't privvy to...

Do you refuse to accept that across nearly all sectors of the public services that wages rose in line with what the private sector rates were through benchmarking over the course of the boom? What about the increases to the numbers of PS workers across many of the different sectors?

8.5% over the past 8 years? That wouldn't even account for the inflation over the same period and in real terms your salary would have been even lower so we'd have seen strike action before this.

I don't know what the various acronyms stand for but I'm guessing that those are fairly low ranking positions (not trying to be insulting here, I genuinely don't know). If that is the case, I have to say (and this applies to ALL wage cuts being sought by government and private employers) that to lower wage rates by teh same percentile across the board is patently unfair. Someone getting 50K getting a 10% cut may loose more money, but relatively speaking the person on 25K looses a lot more in terms of spnding power for their overall salary.

As for paycuts? Try 100%.
...and I don't mean from employed to dole queue, I mean 100%.

At the risk of sounding like every other anti-PS post on here, the money simply isn't there to pay all of you at the levels you'd like. Tax take has fallen because thousands of taxpayers like myself are paying less or no tax because of lower wage rates, shorter hours or lack of job, and because the SW bill has almost trebled in 2 yrs and because there was such a mess made in the banking and property sectors.
Unions and strikes aren't going to fix any of that, no matter how much you want them to...it isn't simply about government spin, which is admittedly a problem...the writing is on the wall for anyone to look at...people that can't see it are either deluding themselves or lacking in basic maths skills.

i agree with you, the money simply isnt there, but as i said in a previous post, im not against cuts. im against taking it out on the lower paid. higher paid civil servants TD's included should be taking higher cuts. its simple really.

I think someone mentioned too about a person on 250k taking a 10% cut is equal to their yearly salary.. For me that speaks volumes about our predicament...

drkpower · 19-11-2009 09:56PM

However unjust it may be for some PS workers to take further cuts, Im afraid its just tough. The State cannot afford to pay what it is paying out. Simple as that. They need to cut expenditure - if they can do it witout pay cuts or job losses, great, but I doubt it.

I didnt cause the significant loss in income my employer suffered recently but I had to take the cut that was imposed on me (or the job losses endured by colleagues). My firm couldn't just borrow money to pay for the continuation of my salary nor could they just charge heir customers more. Similarly the Government cant continue to borrow excessivley or increse taxes endlessly. Both of those options will spell complete disaster for everyone well into the future.

Wertz · 19-11-2009 10:13PM

pajodublin wrote: »

i agree with you, the money simply isnt there, but as i said in a previous post, im not against cuts. im against taking it out on the lower paid. higher paid civil servants TD's included should be taking higher cuts. its simple really.

I think someone mentioned too about a person on 250k taking a 10% cut is equal to their yearly salary.. For me that speaks volumes about our predicament...

You see the trouble is that the pool of people getting the 100K 200K and 250K is a small pond...making cuts there whilst obviously the fair and right thing to do, does not save the money that cutting by the same percentage among a much larger pool inhabited by middle and lower income staff.

We all agree that cutting salaries for HSE honchos, senior civil servants and politicians is the way to go about making savings....but for every one of them there may be 200 lower waged staff (imaginary figure)...it's inevitable that you need to make some cut in the lower wages in order to make the savings required. That's harsh, it's not that fair, but that's where we're at.

If the phone rang for me with work in the morning, I'd be there. I'd probably be asked to work for a figure some 40%+ lower than I was earning 2 years back (which was already a lower figure than the preceding years) but I'd be going...and hoping there was more work when that was done. Public sector workers have a job to do...for the majority of them the work is there to get done...the money isn't there to reimburse them as they'd like.
Striking may send a message, but it's falling on deaf (or in this case plugged) ears...meanwhile the public loose out, be it through kids off school, no-one in the offices they need to use, lower levels of healthcare, whatever.
This doesn't get the public on your side...it further alienates you and the government ultimately win (if win is the right word)...

Mrmoe · 19-11-2009 10:30PM

ElaElaElano wrote: »

Stop blaming each other and think about the real culprits.

It is still the public service who are at fault, not all of the public service mind you. I would exclude nurses and firemen from this.

kelle · 19-11-2009 10:52PM

I'm a PS worker (frontline).
I'm pi**ed off because
1. I voted "No" to this strike
2. My older children have no school that day, so I have to arrange childcare only
(a) creche is full that day, can only take them from 3pm
(b) mother-in-law would take them only she is PS worker and has to picket too
3. I won't get paid, but I'll have to pay childcare regardless.
4. The Government are not going to do a U-turn, no matter what anyone says

Midnight_EG · 19-11-2009 10:56PM

Dartz wrote: »

Public servants will stop working...

.... And nobody will notice any difference.

Except us fcuking students :mad:

To The North · 19-11-2009 10:57PM

Mrmoe wrote: »

It is still the public service who are at fault, not all of the public service mind you. I would exclude nurses and firemen from this.

really? the public service are the root of the country's problems?

i work in a college library, earn less than 30K a year, didn't take part in the credit mania that swept the country in boom times, do you think it was my fault then? or my colleauges in our college?

To The North · 19-11-2009 11:03PM

kelle wrote: »

I'm a PS worker (frontline).
I'm pi**ed off because
1. I voted "No" to this strike
2. My older children have no school that day, so I have to arrange childcare only
(a) creche is full that day, can only take them from 3pm
(b) mother-in-law would take them only she is PS worker and has to picket too
3. I won't get paid, but I'll have to pay childcare regardless.
4. The Government are not going to do a U-turn, no matter what anyone says

why don't you just not go to the picket? i mean if you don't support the unions & your circumstances mean it'd make the day too difficult for you then just explain that if they try to disciplin you. or is that out of the question with your particular union?

drkpower · 19-11-2009 11:04PM

To The North wrote: »

really? the public service are the root of the country's problems?

i work in a college library, earn less than 30K a year, didn't take part in the credit mania that swept the country in boom times, do you think it was my fault then? or my colleauges in our college?

STOP WITH ALL THE FAULT BUSINESS!

Even if we could round up everone whose 'fault' it was, what good willl that do us. They dont have the resources to get us out of this mess. We need a reality check.

To The North · 19-11-2009 11:09PM

drkpower wrote: »

STOP WITH ALL THE FAULT BUSINESS!

Even if we could round up everone whose 'fault' it was, what good willl that do us. They dont have the resources to get us out of this mess. We need a reality check.

you may want to redirect those caps to the poster i was replying to, if someone makes a statement i think is outrageous i'm going to answer it.

kelle · 19-11-2009 11:13PM

To The North wrote: »

why don't you just not go to the picket? i mean if you don't support the unions & your circumstances mean it'd make the day too difficult for you then just explain that if they try to disciplin you. or is that out of the question with your particular union?

I haven't been in this situation before so i'm not sure. We'll be briefed on Monday about what we have to do, but I'll probably end up bringing my kids with me:D

drkpower · 19-11-2009 11:15PM

To The North wrote: »

you may want to redirect those caps to the poster i was replying to, if someone makes a statement i think is outrageous i'm going to answer it.

Its aimed at everyone.

To The North · 19-11-2009 11:21PM

kelle wrote: »

I haven't been in this situation before so i'm not sure. We'll be briefed on Monday about what we have to do, but I'll probably end up bringing my kids with me:D

lol poor kids taken out of school and put on a picket line

i'm sure if you talk to your union rep they'll be sympathetic, i hope so anyway, they shouldn't be too militant.

we are rostered for 3 hour shifts, but i'm kind of worried, i have a horrible kidney infection that has me running to the bathroom several times an hour, not going to be fun if it's still that bad next tuesday :pac:

To The North · 19-11-2009 11:28PM

drkpower wrote: »

Its aimed at everyone.

i can kind of understand that there's been a lot of talk about pointing fingers and a too many threads around here with public/private wars raging, it's tiring and frustrating.

but i think it's good to question who's at the root of it and what can be done to ensure nothing this bad happens again. if we don't demand answers and continue to fight amongst ourselves then they'll be forgotten about and get away with everything they've done to our country and economy. i don't know about you but i'm pretty angry and think that the people who broke the back of economy should be punished and prevented from allowing their greed to ruin the country again.

but if talk turns into suggestions like it was all the fault of the public sector, the majority of whom ultimately work to keep this country running for the good of everyone, then we need to take a step back and think about whats happening to us as a people and where we're allowing our anger to take us.

Any key? · 19-11-2009 11:28PM

Any teacher seen to go against the picket will have a ban infracted upon them by the union.Depends on your school how taboo It would be to not go in for the march.

I'm not going in because I have a broken back and It raised afew eyebrows.

For the record most public service workers know these strikes will have little or no effect and realise everyone needs to take a cut in the current economic climate. However Its important to stand up for yourself and not take things lying down.

Furthermore the government and minister for education havn't bothered to go into discussions with the teachers union since the strike last year. Its only since this strike has been threatened they've sat down at the table together to at least have the government listen to workers concerns.

Cian92 · 19-11-2009 11:29PM

Hells Belle wrote: »

but when it comes to my childrens education I'm like most mums, I want them to actually GET ONE.
quote]

I hardly doubt that your child, missing a days school, will cost them too much, nevemind mean they aren't getting an education. Tbh it seems like all your worried about is having to take the day off to babysit.

D4RK ONION · 19-11-2009 11:36PM

Hells Belle wrote: »

but when it comes to my childrens education I'm like most mums, I want them to actually GET ONE.

Here's a fun little experiment for you. You're going to be off for the day anyway right? Get your kids to bring home some of their school books and copies and teach them something from the books.

Now before you say "That's what teachers are supposed to be doing, etc." I don't mean this in a snarky way. If you're truely concerned that your kids are going to miss out on a day's education, give them one. Or, alternatively give them some life skills, teach them to bake something, or do something fun with them. Make it a day to remember. I dunno, just my 2 cents if you're that concerned!

drkpower · 19-11-2009 11:40PM

To The North wrote: »

i can kind of understand that there's been a lot of talk about pointing fingers and a too many threads around here with public/private wars raging, it's tiring and frustrating.

but i think it's good to question who's at the root of it and what can be done to ensure nothing this bad happens again. if we don't demand answers and continue to fight amongst ourselves then they'll be forgotten about and get away with everything they've done to our country and economy. i don't know about you but i'm pretty angry and think that the people who broke the back of economy should be punished and prevented from allowing their greed to ruin the country again.

but if talk turns into suggestions like it was all the fault of the public sector, the majority of whom ultimately work to keep this country running for the good of everyone, then we need to take a step back and think about whats happening to us as a people and where we're allowing our anger to take us.

I agree with much of what you say but the 'whose fault is it?' and the 'what can/should we do?' questions are largely sepearte issues with largely seperate answers.

TCP/IP_King · 20-11-2009 01:20AM

Hells Belle wrote: »

... when it comes to my childrens education I'm like most mums, I want them to actually GET ONE. .....

Well if your concerned about your childrens future education, get out there and stand in support of the teachers. If we don't stand up to this sniping at soft targets while the real culprits get away scot free, I wouldn't hold up too much hope for a decent education for anyones child in the public education system for the next 10 years.

Naikon · 20-11-2009 01:52AM

This strike will achieve nothing except shuting down the country for a few
hours. Fighting a losing battle imo.

TomTom · 20-11-2009 03:30AM

Naikon wrote: »

This strike will achieve nothing except shuting down the country for a few
hours. Fighting a losing battle imo.

I agree.

The only alternative to pay cuts is job losses and thats a route I doubt the government will take.

There are plenty of people who can be trimmed from the public sector at all levels but going back to something someone mentioned in an earlier post. Taking 100 euro from a 100 managers will never save as much as 100 euro from 10,000 front line workers. Just picking figures out of my ass for that.

Everyone is in a similar situation in the country but the public sector are under the lime light as its public money that pays them. If some elements of the private sector want to give 8%+ payrises then let them, its a private sector and its the governments job to prevent those raises from affecting inflation. People cannot expect their wages to be protected just because of the job they do or the sector they work in.

jivedude · 20-11-2009 03:37AM

Degsy wrote: »

Its them thats bankrupting the country not the paye workers in the public Sector..200 quid a week for doing nowt.

If thats what you think then you dont know much ! Many of those had spent years of their live paying taxes before getting to that point. You dont just generalise a statement like that.:mad:

jivedude · 20-11-2009 03:43AM

kelle wrote: »

I'm a PS worker (frontline).
I'm pi**ed off because
1. I voted "No" to this strike
2. My older children have no school that day, so I have to arrange childcare only
(a) creche is full that day, can only take them from 3pm
(b) mother-in-law would take them only she is PS worker and has to picket too
3. I won't get paid, but I'll have to pay childcare regardless.
4. The Government are not going to do a U-turn, no matter what anyone says

I know its a pain in the ass for you and your family now but its a sacrifice that needs to be made. We need to feel the pinch now so our children will not be in a worse situation.

It's a start n its always difficult at the beginning but enough is enough, ple need to take a stand to make government change their mind.
It was hard to believe 5 years ago that a black man will be allowed to rule America ! It wasnt an easy run but eventaully it paid off !!

Hang on man, we shall overcome and make a better future for the kids.:)

Hells Belle · 20-11-2009 11:29AM

TCP/IP_King wrote: »

Well if your concerned about your childrens future education, get out there and stand in support of the teachers. If we don't stand up to this sniping at soft targets while the real culprits get away scot free, I wouldn't hold up too much hope for a decent education for anyones child in the public education system for the next 10 years.

Eh no because I don't agree with protesting against something that ACTUALLY HASN'T HAPPENED. FFS the nurses have orgainised themselves to have cover - staff off are coming in to cover, but no the teachers have to close the whole school. Gardai have done the same as the nurses. I actually like spending time with my child unbelievable as that may seem to some of you but I feel he should be in school, again is that wrong of me to want him in an enviornment of learning?? (I'd be even more livid if I had a child in an exam year, thats disgraceful that they should loose a day)

As a matter of interest, how will striking make it better for the children? Is the strike for new safe things for them? Or is it for money? Can someone more enlightened than me please advise?

Hells Belle · 20-11-2009 11:38AM

[quote=Cian92;63095663
I hardly doubt that your child, missing a days school, will cost them too much, nevemind mean they aren't getting an education. Tbh it seems like all your worried about is having to take the day off to babysit.[/quote]

Have you got children? How I understand it works is if they don't get an education they won't get into a college, get a qualification and a job and be meaningful contributing members of society - do you understand how that works?? ...Again if that makes me wrong so be it. I'm not happy about cuts being made but I also don't want my children paying for someone elses greed and stupidity when it comes to their time to pay tax (Govt, bankers etc not teachers)

Euro_Kraut · 20-11-2009 11:44AM

Hells Belle wrote: »

FFS the nurses have orgainised themselves to have cover - staff off are coming in to cover, but no the teachers have to close the whole school. Gardai have done the same as the nurses.

Gardai are legally barred from striking. Nurses and other Medics are legally obliged to provided cover as per the 1990 Industrial Relations Act.

These groups that you mention are merely fulfilling their legal obligations. Comparisons of striking arrangements with other sectors of the public service is pointless.

Hells Belle · 20-11-2009 11:49AM

Euro_Kraut wrote: »

Gardai are legally barred from striking. Nurses and other Medics are legally obliged to provided cover as per the 1990 Industrial Relations Act.

These groups that you mention are merely fulfilling their legal obligations. Comparisons of striking arrangements with other sectors of the public service is pointless.

Ok then so who from the PS is actually striking then if the Army, Gardai and a lot of health personnel are not? Are Govt departments doing it? I'm not being funny, I don't understand.

Zulu · 20-11-2009 11:56AM

Civil servants, teachers, etc.

To The North · 20-11-2009 12:08PM

Hells Belle wrote: »

As a matter of interest, how will striking make it better for the children? Is the strike for new safe things for them? Or is it for money? Can someone more enlightened than me please advise?

Have you got children? How I understand it works is if they don't get an education they won't get into a college, get a qualification and a job and be meaningful contributing members of society - do you understand how that works?? ...Again if that makes me wrong so be it. I'm not happy about cuts being made but I also don't want my children paying for someone elses greed and stupidity when it comes to their time to pay tax (Govt, bankers etc not teachers)

the strike will help your children by giving educators (in all levels, first, second and third) and the people who work in schools & colleges a voice. the people in whos hands you place your child's educational needs should be incredibly important to you and you should ask that they be treated with respect, not abused for trying to stand up for themselves.

you correctly don't believe your children should have to pay for the greed of the people who drove the country to ruin, but why should the teachers pay either? do you not realise that if the teachers pay then the students will pay too? if they allow the government to walk all over them it will no doubt mean further cuts in pay and staffing levels as contracts continue to run out, how do you think that will affect your children's education? it will be far worse than them missing a day of school for a strike. my fear is that fewer and fewer people will want to have or continue to have public service jobs if the pay is terrible and their employer allows them to be abused this way, where will that leave your children (or my future children if i have them!) in the future?

i work in a college library. in my workplace we have lost staff members who were on contract and as a result we have had to reduce our opening hours and our services are less than they should be. college applications are up, this means more students and less staff all across the college. this puts the students at a great disadvantage as a valuable resource to their education is restricted. they are particularly worried about exam times but there is simply nothing we can do to help them.

this is just one library in one college, i can imagine the situation is much worse elsewhere. remember that someday you'll be sending your kids off to college too and i'm assuming that you want them to get the best education possible there, but i can guarantee you that if the victimisation of the public service continues and the government continue to cut pay and allow contracts to go unfilled then it really wont look good for their future.

i'm so horrified that people are giving out about having to look after their kids for a day when the whole future of the quality of their education is in such a precarious position.

Public Service Strike Thread

Comments