What about this...

Mark200 · 18-11-2009 12:44PM #1

So I used to always hear stories from people in work about people they know claiming social welfare benefits that they weren't eligible for. For example claiming that they were a single parent even if they were living with a partner. Getting the state to pay for their rent while driving around in flashy cars and watching their favourite shows on big plasma TVs. Whenever I asked why don't they just report the person, they always come out with reasons like "I just wouldn't feel right" or "it's the state's fault for letting them have it".

So what about this... my solution to this would be for the state to provide a financial reward to anyone who successfully reports someone else for defrauding the state. Whenever the person is found to be wrongfully claiming, one month's worth of it will be award to the person who reports them.

For example:
Someone claiming the dole when they shouldn't? One months worth of the dole is awarded to whoever reports them

Someone claiming rent when they shouldn't? One months worth of their rent is awarded to whoever reports them.

And then obviously a big penalty to those who are found to be defrauding the state.

Does anyone else agree with this idea? At the moment I don't think there's enough incentive to report people like this, and the people who really do need the money might be losing out because the ones who don't need it are claiming it too.

kingtut · 18-11-2009 12:46PM

No.

NedTermo · 18-11-2009 12:46PM

Mark200 wrote: »

So I used to always hear stories from people in work about people they knowing claiming social welfare benefits that they weren't eligible for. For example claiming that they were a single parent even if they were living with a partner. Getting the state to pay for their rent while driving around in flashy cars and watching their favourite shows on big plasma TVs. Whenever I ask why don't they just report the person, they always come out with reasons like "I just wouldn't feel right" or "it's the state's fault for letting them have it".

So what about this... my solution to this would be for the state to provide a financial reward to anyone who successfully reports someone else for defrauding the state. Whatever the person is found to be wrongfully claiming, one month's worth of it will be award to the person who reports them.

For example:
Someone claiming the dole when they shouldn't? One months worth of the dole is awarded to whoever reports them

Someone claiming rent when they shouldn't? One months worth of their rent is awarded to whoever reports them.

And then obviously a big penalty to those who are found to be defrauding the state.

Does anyone else agree with this idea? At the moment I don't think there's enough incentive to report people like this, and the people who really do need the money might be losing out because the ones who don't need it are claiming it too.

controversial + irish government + tell tale stigma = never happen

wudangclan · 18-11-2009 12:47PM

It already happens for free.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/dole-cheats-face-crackdown-after-surge-in-tipoffs-1633124.html

Begrudgery in action.

zonEEE · 18-11-2009 12:48PM

would turn Ireland into the salem Witch trials lol

Mark200 · 18-11-2009 12:49PM

kingtut wrote: »

No.

Oh

wudangclan wrote: »

It already happens for free.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/dole-cheats-face-crackdown-after-surge-in-tipoffs-1633124.html

Begrudgery in action.

Well it obviously doesn't happen enough if there's still people out there claiming benefits they aren't eligible for.

Also, I don't see how it's begrudgery.

AnonoBoy · 18-11-2009 12:50PM

..... what about you run for election?

I will vote for you if you have decent posters. I care little for policies. It's all about poster design with me.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i · 18-11-2009 12:50PM

Oh no, not another one of these threads... FFS. Really...

wudangclan · 18-11-2009 12:52PM

Mark200 wrote: »

Also, I don't see how it's begrudgery.

Depends on the motives of the tipper.
Probably some are doing it out of civil duty but more often than not I would suspect it's a case of 'Well if I'm not getting it he's not getting it'.

kingtut · 18-11-2009 12:54PM

Mark200 wrote: »

Oh

Oh no.

Victor_M · 18-11-2009 12:57PM

wudangclan wrote: »

Begrudgery in action.

So Scumbags too lazy to work and getting caught out is begrudgery? How exactly? If you saw someone breaking onto a house you would report it , as its a crime how is stealing from the tax man any different.

Why are my taxes paying someone to sit on their hole?

I think it's a great idea OP, I also think all Civil service costs & expenses that are available under the freedom of information act should be available on-line for all to see so the fraudulent/inappropriate ones get caught out by Joe Public.

wudangclan · 18-11-2009 12:59PM

Victor_M wrote: »

So Scumbags too lazy to work and getting caught out is begrudgery? How exactly? If you saw someone breaking onto a house you would report it , as its a crime how is stealing from the tax man any different.

Why are my taxes paying someone to sit on their hole?

I think it's a great idea OP, I also think all Civil service costs & expenses that are available under the freedom of information act should be available on-line for all to see so the fraudulent/inappropriate ones get caught out by Joe Public.

I refer you to post 9.

SEPT 23 1989 · 18-11-2009 01:01PM

Never rat on your friends and always keep your mouth shut.

ScumLord · 18-11-2009 01:01PM

Allot of people on big benefits where probably told to go on them by the ones handing out the benefits. I remember people being advised by social workers on how to get the most money out of the system.

The entire system is broken and I wouldn't particularly blame the people who benefiting from it. You can't seriously expect a person to say no to extra money when everyone else is doing it. Now they've become reliant on that money and think they can't live without it.

They should stop pandering to politics and do what needs to be done but that won't happen and no one would trust the government to do properly.

Long Onion · 18-11-2009 01:04PM

FFS indeed.

Show me these mythical hoardes on welfare with their flashy cars and their plasma screen tv's.

Show me how they live in mansions surrounded by herds of wandering Alpaca's in the undulating hillside.

Show me how they wear but Prada and Loius Vuitton,

Show me how they holiday to the Italian Lakes drinking now't but Cristal,

Show me where they earn the €80,000 per annum attributed to them

And I mean pics or GTFO

Seiously, stop reading the Sun and stop talking to taxi drivers, you'll soon float around to the reality that 99% of anecdotal evidence is the mental manifestation of the belief that the other person always has a better, less deserved life than you.

TheZohanS · 18-11-2009 01:05PM

wudangclan wrote: »

I refer you to post 9.

I see your point wudangclan but I think anyone that is working and making fraudulent Social Welfare claims should be reported.

We should put the idea of "begrudgery" out of our minds altogether, there is nothing wrong with reporting a crime regardless of your motives.

That would be like saying that you shouldn't report someone for stealing a car just because you're not stealing one.

My name is URL · 18-11-2009 01:07PM

If it means less scrounger threads in AH I support it 100%

Victor_M · 18-11-2009 01:09PM

wudangclan wrote: »

I refer you to post 9.

regardless of motives, if they are stealing they are stealing.

I refer you back to Right & Wrong.

wudangclan · 18-11-2009 01:10PM

TheZohan wrote: »

I see your point wudangclan but I think anyone that is working and making fraudulent Social Welfare claims should be reported.

We should put the idea of "begrudgery" out of our minds altogether, there is nothing wrong with reporting a crime regardless of your motives.

That would be like saying that you shouldn't report someone for stealing a car just because you're not stealing one.

I defer to your wisdom.

Latchy · 18-11-2009 01:13PM

'' Let he who is without sin cast the first stone ''

NedTermo · 18-11-2009 01:15PM

Latchy wrote: »

'' Let he who is without sin cast the first stone ''

"Let he who quoteth from bible sound like a cliche ridden tit"

Mark200 · 18-11-2009 01:15PM

Long Onion wrote: »

FFS indeed.

Show me these mythical hoardes on welfare with their flashy cars and their plasma screen tv's.

Show me how they live in mansions surrounded by herds of wandering Alpaca's in the undulating hillside.

Show me how they wear but Prada and Loius Vuitton,

Show me how they holiday to the Italian Lakes drinking now't but Cristal,

Show me where they earn the €80,000 per annum attributed to them

And I mean pics or GTFO

Seiously, stop reading the Sun and stop talking to taxi drivers, you'll soon float around to the reality that 99% of anecdotal evidence is the mental manifestation of the belief that the other person always has a better, less deserved life than you.

Well actually the people I talked to knew for a fact that these people were claiming stuff they were not eligible for.

But unless you're trying to claim there are is not a single person out there aware of someone who is claiming benefits that they are not eligible for, then your post is a bit pointless.

And also, several weeks on the FM104 Phone-in Show (yeah yeah) there were people who rang in saying that THEY were claiming things like this that they knew they were not entitled to.

So my point is what is so bad about providing a real incentive for someone to report these people? I never claimed that these people were in the majority of social welfare recipients or even a big percentage of them, but I do think that the state would be far better off financially if it was able to drastically reduce the amount of people who are claiming things that they shouldn't.

Looks like you were just jumping at the chance to have a go at someone who mentions social welfare and fraud in the same post.

TheZohanS · 18-11-2009 01:16PM

Latchy wrote: »

'' Let he who is without sin cast the first stone ''

The innocent who suffer.

wudangclan · 18-11-2009 01:18PM

Victor_M wrote: »

regardless of motives, if they are stealing they are stealing.

I refer you back to Right & Wrong.

I was brought up in a Dundalk council estate during the eighties and nineties where unemployment reached 90% at times and I understand the motives of someone who subverts the system to feed their families.
Right and wrong is not always black and white.
I'm not advocating dole fraud, just offering a different perspective.

(i expect an onslaught for this one)

Latchy · 18-11-2009 01:19PM

NedTermo wrote: »

"Let he who quoteth from bible sound like a cliche ridden tit"

I only said what a few others have already said except I used a bible cliche to express it, with just a few words more than you

Latchy · 18-11-2009 01:23PM

TheZohan wrote: »

The innocent who suffer.

Yes but fraud does not only come from abuse of the benefits system .But I take your point

bakkiesbotha · 18-11-2009 01:33PM

Mark200 wrote: »

And also, several weeks on the FM104 Phone-in Show (yeah yeah) there were people who rang in saying that THEY were claiming things like this that they knew they were not entitled to.

These shows employ people to ring in and make divisive / controversial remarks when there aren't enough callers, or the callers aren't being interesting.

Mark200 · 18-11-2009 01:38PM

bakkiesbotha wrote: »

These shows employ people to ring in and make divisive / controversial remarks when there aren't enough callers, or the callers aren't being interesting.

Well whether that is true or not it has very little to do with my point that unless the poster I was replying to is attempting to claim that there is not a single person out there aware of someone else claiming social welfare benefits that they aren't entitled to, then the post was rather pointless and the poster completely missed the point of my post.

Long Onion · 18-11-2009 02:01PM

Mark200 wrote: »

Well actually the people I talked to knew for a fact that these people were claiming stuff they were not eligible for.

But unless you're trying to claim there are is not a single person out there aware of someone who is claiming benefits that they are not eligible for, then your post is a bit pointless.

And also, several weeks on the FM104 Phone-in Show (yeah yeah) there were people who rang in saying that THEY were claiming things like this that they knew they were not entitled to.

So my point is what is so bad about providing a real incentive for someone to report these people? I never claimed that these people were in the majority of social welfare recipients or even a big percentage of them, but I do think that the state would be far better off financially if it was able to drastically reduce the amount of people who are claiming things that they shouldn't.

Looks like you were just jumping at the chance to have a go at someone who mentions social welfare and fraud in the same post.

The point of my post was that there are good people and not so good people everywhere - this is neither new nor worthy of a thread. The allegation made was that dole frauds are driving flash cars and watching plasma screen tv's - this is un substantiated populist nonsense.

Mark200 · 18-11-2009 02:06PM

Long Onion wrote: »

The point of my post was that there are good people and not so good people everywhere - this is neither new nor worthy of a thread. The allegation made was that dole frauds are driving flash cars and watching plasma screen tv's - this is un substantiated populist nonsense.

No, the allegation made was that there exists dole frauds. And that out of the dole frauds that exists, there exists people who are driving flashy cars and there exists people who have plasma screen tvs.

The point of this thread was not to draw your attention to the fact that there are good and not so good people everywhere, it was to put out a suggestion as to how to significantly reduce the ability of the not so good people to take money they are not eligible for.

Macca07 · 18-11-2009 02:11PM

Long Onion wrote: »

FFS indeed.

Show me these mythical hoardes on welfare with their flashy cars and their plasma screen tv's.

Show me how they live in mansions surrounded by herds of wandering Alpaca's in the undulating hillside.

Show me how they wear but Prada and Loius Vuitton,

Show me how they holiday to the Italian Lakes drinking now't but Cristal,

Show me where they earn the €80,000 per annum attributed to them

And I mean pics or GTFO

Seiously, stop reading the Sun and stop talking to taxi drivers, you'll soon float around to the reality that 99% of anecdotal evidence is the mental manifestation of the belief that the other person always has a better, less deserved life than you.

+1

Well said!!!

What about this...

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