Part of Dublin to Belfast rail line collapses

dcr22B · 16-11-2009 9:52am

Well, I stuck with the bus this morning and judging by the fact that they were so slow this morning, I would love to stick with it but I'm hamstrung by a rail only Annual Taxsaver ticket that runs out at the end of January so I wouldn't get any refund on it at this late stage.

As an aside, did anybody use the Rush & Lusk car park this morning? If so, how operational is it in terms of space pre viaduct collapse?

positron · 16-11-2009 10:12am

Drogheda - Connolly all last week - 40 mins appox.
Drogheda - Connolly this morning - 1hr 15 mins.

IrishRail, please bring back the buses..!

squonk · 16-11-2009 10:35am

I stuck with the 33X from Skerries this mroning. The journey was a little longer because of the horrendous weather but I was in work for just after 8 so the journey time was about 1hr20mins. It sounds like I'd have been travelling for longer if I'd taken the train so I'm going to stick with the bus this evening.

A great thing I noticed this morning was that the bus I was on (6:40 from Skerries) was full. It's great to see that commuters are starting to see the 33X service asa viable alternatice tot he trains. At the rate things are going with the new rail timetable coming online in a fortnight, it makes the bus look even better. I hope people keep using it so Dubli Bus have an incentive to keep it going.

dcr22B · 16-11-2009 10:56am

squonk, you didn't by any chance happen to notice what state the Rush & Lusk car park was in this morning?

penexpers · 16-11-2009 11:35am

Captain Chaos wrote: »

Yeah, there's a 25mph speed limit over the bridge for the next 2 weeks. It will then be raised to 50mph for a further 2 weeks and then after back to 90mph. But the Commuters top out at 75mph.

I tracked a journey from Connolly to Skerries using a GPS unit and it seemed to top out at 60mph.

squonk · 16-11-2009 11:37am

dcr22B, I had a look as I was passing by on the bus but I was just looking to see how mnay cars were there more than anything else. Are they doing work in the car park? It wasn't too full but that was at about 7:15 or so I suppose. IT probably fileld up after that.

dcr22B · 16-11-2009 11:49am

squonk wrote: »

dcr22B, I had a look as I was passing by on the bus but I was just looking to see how mnay cars were there more than anything else. Are they doing work in the car park? It wasn't too full but that was at about 7:15 or so I suppose. IT probably fileld up after that.

They were doing a massive extension on the Lusk side of the tracks and it looked finished further away from the main road but not 100% complete.

IR confirmed to me on Friday that the car park would be fully operational, might juts have to take a run down there tonight and survey it for myself.

foggy_lad · 16-11-2009 12:01pm

Irish rail etc are testing this new section of the viaduct with loaded trains for stress problems etc but what about the older sections which are more likely to suffer the same fate as the section that collapsed? Has extensive testing been done on the whole structure? Has equipment been put in place to continually monitor the condition of each section of this problematic viaduct? Is it safe to have trains thundering across this old structure?

Captain Chaos · 16-11-2009 12:09pm

The trains are not thundering across it, only at very slow speeds for the time being. Work is still on going on the viaduct even though its open for trains. Trains won't be going across it a full line speed for at least another month.

Yes the whole viaduct was tested with a fully loaded Tara mines freight train which is the heaviest train to run on the Irish rail network. The train weighs about 1,200+ tonnes and sat on the viaduct on both tracks for most of Friday and spent a few hours on Thursday. The train is about 3/4 the length of the viaduct so the whole thing was load tested with the new part takinging most of the strain.

positron · 16-11-2009 12:40pm

Captian Chaos, thanks for that.

Just curious though, wouldn't the stress (load, vibrations etc) to the structure from a fast moving commuter train be vastly different from carefully loading a heavy load on to the bridge?

IrishRail's idea of 25 kph restrictions for two weeks and 50 kph for another two weeks sounds like they are not really sure about the fix themselves to be honest. Considering the line was closed for months, taking a few more days to test the line fully, would have been more ideal - than putting thousands of irritated customers thru the current 'slow-go' punishment.., imho!

KC61 · 16-11-2009 12:50pm

positron wrote: »

Captian Chaos, thanks for that.

Just curious though, wouldn't the stress (load, vibrations etc) to the structure from a fast moving commuter train be vastly different from carefully loading a heavy load on to the bridge?

IrishRail's idea of 25 kph restrictions for two weeks and 50 kph for another two weeks sounds like they are not really sure about the fix themselves to be honest. Considering the line was closed for months, taking a few more days to test the line fully, would have been more ideal - than putting thousands of irritated customers thru the current 'slow-go' punishment.., imho!

The speed restrictions are 25MPH and 50MPH and not in KPH.

It is standard practice after tracks have been relaid to have tiered speed restrictions before returning to standard line speed.

Cookie_Monster · 16-11-2009 12:52pm

KC61 wrote: »

The speed restrictions are 25MPH and 50MPH and not in KPH.

Do IR not do the metric system?

positron · 16-11-2009 12:59pm

KC61 wrote: »

The speed restrictions are 25MPH and 50MPH and not in KPH.

Thanks, I was not sure about that. Thought they also switched over in 2005.

KC61 wrote: »

It is standard practice after tracks have been relaid to have tiered speed restrictions before returning to standard line speed.

By 'standard practice', I hope you are saying there's a reason behind it? Wonder that that is, because if that logic is flawed then that could have some serious impact on my.. err.. life!

KC61 · 16-11-2009 1:09pm

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Do IR not do the metric system?

All distances and speeds on the railway are measured in miles.

KC61 · 16-11-2009 1:11pm

positron wrote: »

Thanks, I was not sure about that. Thought they also switched over in 2005.

By 'standard practice', I hope you are saying there's a reason behind it? Wonder that that is, because if that logic is flawed then that could have some serious impact on my.. err.. life!

Usually it is to let the ballast settle under the tracks. There is always a lag and standard safety procedure is to allow trains pass at low speeds before gradually increasing the speed limits.

Victor · 16-11-2009 3:04pm

dcr22B wrote: »

As an aside, did anybody use the Rush & Lusk car park this morning? If so, how operational is it in terms of space pre viaduct collapse?

At 10am, the Rush side was pretty much full and the Lusk side about 50% full. the contractors have an area down the very bask and by the foot bridge, but there was space.

foggy_lad wrote: »

Irish rail etc are testing this new section of the viaduct with loaded trains for stress problems etc but what about the older sections which are more likely to suffer the same fate as the section that collapsed?

The other sections were piled also and lots of rock has been added to prevent scouring.

However, no machine can really mimic the effect of dozens of trains per day going across the viaduct and compacting the ballast under the track, so the temporary speed limits are perfectly normal and acceptable.

Victor · 16-11-2009 3:04pm

Please note.

The 2009 timetable does not apply.

The 2010 timetable does not apply.

The "during the disruption" timetable does not apply.

Some fuzzy "after the disruption" timetable does apply. Expect some trains to run a bit late, or a lot early, or to Bray (while heading northbound through Rush & Lusk).

In other words, everything is back to normal.

Africa · 16-11-2009 3:15pm

so we are back to the old green timetable? I can get that 11.20pm train again?!

Woohoo!

Still - seems a lot of people prefered the bus. I live in Laytown myself, and usually it is faster to get to town on Matthews (45 mins) in comparison to the train. And it leaves me at Parnell street or the IFSC! Plus the trains are a rip off - a tenner to get to town from laytown and a 5er to balbriggan! Disgrace!

I will probably continue using the matthews bus so

EDIT

16th November 10.20hrs

DART services are currently suspended between Dun Laoghaire and Bray due to flooding on the line at Sandycove.

Dublin Bus will accept rail tickets.

Presume thats why lads

foggy_lad · 17-11-2009 3:15am

Captain Chaos wrote: »

The trains are not thundering across it, only at very slow speeds for the time being.

Yes the whole viaduct was tested with a fully loaded Tara mines freight train which is the heaviest train to run on the Irish rail network. The train weighs about 1,200+ tonnes and sat on the viaduct on both tracks for most of Friday and spent a few hours on Thursday. The train is about 3/4 the length of the viaduct so the whole thing was load tested with the new part takinging most of the strain.

wouldn't it have been better to have tested the viaduct with this heavily loaded train thundering across several times a day at full speed rather than having trains carrying people crawl across for months?

Bluetonic · 17-11-2009 9:50am

foggy_lad wrote: »

wouldn't it have been better to have tested the viaduct with this heavily loaded train thundering across several times a day at full speed rather than having trains carrying people crawl across for months?

It would be quite stupid to test any newly laid track by thundering a train across it.

L1011 · 17-11-2009 9:51am

foggy_lad wrote: »

wouldn't it have been better to have tested the viaduct with this heavily loaded train thundering across several times a day at full speed rather than having trains carrying people crawl across for months?

The low speeds aren't to test it, they're because the ballasting on the track bed needs time to settle. This was only explained a few posts ago!

If you run a train at 80mph (or whatever the bridge's normal speed limit is) over new ballast, you are likely to displace the track.

17-11-2009 1:28pm

MYOB wrote: »

The low speeds aren't to test it, they're because the ballasting on the track bed needs time to settle. This was only explained a few posts ago!

If you run a train at 80mph (or whatever the bridge's normal speed limit is) over new ballast, you are likely to displace the track.

Adding to that, the engineers need to frequently inspect the track and carry out any repacking of ballast and rail realignment work caused by settlement.
It's much safer to have a slow train cause a small amount of settlement that is easily rectified, than a high speed ont that cause such a shift that the line needs to close for a few hours for it to be rectified.

urbeau · 17-11-2009 1:56pm

Well yesterday the normal "service" (or lack of) resumed. I come from Laytown and morning train was a few minutes late but seemed to get to Connolly roughly on time.

Evening train was a joke. 5.21 out of Connolly supposed to get to Laytown for 17.59 arrived at 18.18. Ok, so only 19 minutes late for for a scheduled 38 minute journey we are talking 50%!

Usual excuses but quite frankly Disneyworld runs a more complex network than these jokers and seem to get it right pretty much all of the time.

Bottom line is that they dont give a monkeys and certainly do not view us as customers. I think that after their 3 month rest many staff will take some time to get back to match fitness!

D'Peoples Voice · 17-11-2009 2:22pm

urbeau wrote: »

Evening train was a joke. 5.21 out of Connolly supposed to get to Laytown for 17.59 !

JAYSUS thats some journey, twelve and a half hours, the bus is quicker than that:D

Hungerford · 17-11-2009 9:08pm

urbeau wrote: »

Usual excuses but quite frankly Disneyworld runs a more complex network than these jokers and seem to get it right pretty much all of the time.

Ah, but that's just a Mickey Mouse operation!

[sorry I just couldn't resist

]

ixoy · 17-11-2009 9:14pm

I noticed that the Drogheda trains aren't appearing on any of the electronic displays at the stations. They're also not appearing on the "Real Time" section of their site. Any reason for this other than the phrase "they're idiots"?

sdanseo · 17-11-2009 9:57pm

ixoy wrote: »

I noticed that the Drogheda trains aren't appearing on any of the electronic displays at the stations. They're also not appearing on the "Real Time" section of their site. Any reason for this other than the phrase "they're idiots"?

They're muppets :rolleyes:

Rashers72 · 17-11-2009 10:05pm

The electronic displays were down this morning in the suburban stations - an improvement on yesterday, when they were simply wrong.
They were working at DART stations, but did not seem to have any mention of Northern suburban trains - go figure????
Anyhow, the realtime online application on the IE website was down for the day.
By lunchtime, the overhead displays at the DART stations were all down, but they returned after lunch.
Online realtime was down this evening, and is still down now. Actually, its worse, because it indicates there are no DARTS running, as opposed to an error message.
And finally, yes, someone in there wisdom removed all the suburban stations from the DART and suburban realtime planner. Very clever! I rang up yesterday to ask why, and after first been told the suburban stations were never there previously, when I persisted, I was told IT would investigate. Don't hold your breath!!

dcr22B · 18-11-2009 10:55am

First day back on the train blues!

I got the 08.09 service from Rush and Lusk this morning (arrived 08.12) and was due to arrive in Connolly as per the online route planner at 08.36 (arrived 08.48). While I appreciate that they have to traverse the viaduct at a slower speed than previously (being honest it wasn't that much slower than before), such a poor service is not acceptable. I have paid my annual ticket up until January but it's already all come out of my wages so I'm seriously considering getting a bus/rail ticket from January 1st in the event that a good level of service with the 33X is kept on.

On a better note, the car park extenstion in Rush and Lusk is a very welcome addition and hopefully with the improved access it will offer once completed, the long queues coming out of the car park in the evening will hopefully become a thing of the past.

urbeau · 18-11-2009 11:55am

dcr22B wrote: »

First day back on the train blues!

I got the 08.09 service from Rush and Lusk this morning (arrived 08.12) and was due to arrive in Connolly as per the online route planner at 08.36 (arrived 08.48). While I appreciate that they have to traverse the viaduct at a slower speed than previously (being honest it wasn't that much slower than before), such a poor service is not acceptable. I have paid my annual ticket up until January but it's already all come out of my wages so I'm seriously considering getting a bus/rail ticket from January 1st in the event that a good level of service with the 33X is kept on.

On a better note, the car park extenstion in Rush and Lusk is a very welcome addition and hopefully with the improved access it will offer once completed, the long queues coming out of the car park in the evening will hopefully become a thing of the past.

I agree with you that slowness going over the viaduct is having very little impact on travel time. I have been on 5 trains this week and all have run late. Interestingly the morning ones have been by 1-2 minutes only but evening one has been 19 minutes both Mon and Tues - this is on a timetabled 38 minute run (17.21 from Connolly to Laytown which only stops at Skerries, Balb and Gorm on way). There is no way that going slow over the bridge is the reason - to my mind it is just these guys getting back up to speed with working for a living and frankly not giving a damn about customers. If you have ever made a complaint via their website you will see what I mean - you get a nice bland answer from somebody in an office who clearly has no connection with the folks operating the service. We need to get used to the idea that the trains are pulled by a guy in the cab who is nameless and faceless, who may or may not care about the timeliness or quality of our journey, and who may or may not take the trouble to inform us when things are going wrong. For the staff who dont give a monkeys there is no comeback anyway - have you ever heard of an IE guy being disciplined or sacked for poor performance? If the company tried then we would have a strike on our hands.

Part of Dublin to Belfast rail line collapses

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