The Virginia sniper..

Bob_Harris · 10-11-2009 04:04PM

Marshall Damaged Bongo wrote: »

When I looked into the guys mental health issues', and considering he has been found to be suffering from Gulf War Syndrome & P.T.S.D. from his service in the US forces, I can't help but think he's been dealt a raw deal.

Aww the murdering soldier murders more people. Poor him, lets absolve him of all responsibility because of "mental issues".

Pighead · 10-11-2009 04:06PM

Degsy wrote: »

Should Degsy ever climb up a water tower with a rifle one day,pighead would do well to stay out of his sights!

No offense Degsy but your attempts to scare Pighead will never work. We all know you're a mild mannered librarian with a penchant for doll collecting. A threat from you is akin to getting bitten by a toothless hamster.

Dudess · 10-11-2009 04:06PM

topper75 wrote: »

But you'll forgive me this one occasion if I hold the relatives of the dead out in front of you when it comes to opinions on what should be done with him.

But those deciding his fate shouldn't be letting their emotions dictate. He should have been incarcerated for life in a mental health facility.

4zn76tysfajdxp · 10-11-2009 04:08PM

Pighead wrote: »

No offense Degsy but your attempts to scare Pighead will never work. We all know you're a mild mannered librarian with a penchant for doll collecting. A threat from you is akin to getting bitten by a toothless hamster.

You can knock that off as well. This isn't the Thunderdome.

Degsy · 10-11-2009 04:08PM

A great way to stop people re-offending is to execute them..far better than locking them up at the taxpayers expense.

AckwelFoley · 10-11-2009 04:12PM

Degsy wrote: »

A great way to stop people re-offending is to execute them..far better than locking them up at the taxpayers expense.

Totally agree, with one caveat however. Proof of guilt needs to be absolute. Yes we have seen innocent people been pardoned for crimes they didnt commit.

But if one is caught with the smoking gun... literally in this case.. fry'em

keefg · 10-11-2009 04:14PM

Marshall Damaged Bongo wrote: »

To expand on my question, 'from your war experiences?.

And what makes you think that you need to have experienced something to have some knowledge on it?

Do you think all the medical staff who first diagnosed PTSD or that treat it now were all front line troops?

I think not. There are other ways to gain knowledge other than experience.

But to answer your question, I was part of a crew working on a documentary on this case back and I learned a lot about the case from discussions with the research team.

In almost every murder case in America the first reaction of the defence team is to appeal under some sort of mental illness situation. It's pretty much standard procedure but that doesn't validate it as a defence.

The prosecution team pretty much squashed the mental illness defence because the case was little to do with any sort of revenge or injustice and more to do with the ransom money demanded by the guilty parties.

I suspect your sympathy of this case is more to do with a fellow soldier rather than the actual facts of the case.

Degsy · 10-11-2009 04:18PM

snyper wrote: »

Totally agree, with one caveat however. Proof of guilt needs to be absolute. Yes we have seen innocent people been pardoned for crimes they didnt commit.

But if one is caught with the smoking gun... literally in this case.. fry'em

Cant make an omelete without breaking eggs..

major bill · 10-11-2009 04:19PM

i remember coming home from school everyday at lunch and sticking on the news and finding out the washington sniper had shot another person, mad couldnt help but notice that the media in a sick way were loving this, the man was a national celebrity in a ''natural born killers'' type of way:eek:.
Health issues or not he made his bed, he didnt just go out one day and shoot loads of people he went out a number of days so clearly he had to of known what he was doing at some stage!!!!

arybvtcw0eolkf · 10-11-2009 04:20PM

keefg wrote: »

And what makes you think that you need to have experienced something to have some knowledge on it?

Do you think all the medical staff who first diagnosed PTSD or that treat it now were all front line troops?

I think not. There are other ways to gain knowledge other than experience.

But to answer your question, I was part of a crew working on a documentary on this case back and I leaned a lot about the case from discussions with the research team.

So the answer to my question is 'NO', ok you could have just said that.

keefg wrote: »

I suspect your sympathy of this case is more to do with a fellow soldier rather than the actual facts of the case.

Maybe the Hitler thingy was too complicated, so I'll just say 'No' then.

PeakOutput · 10-11-2009 04:26PM

Dudess wrote: »

But those deciding his fate shouldn't be letting their emotions dictate. He should have been incarcerated for life in a mental health facility.

why?

the supreme court of the united states of america looked at the mental health evidence and decided it carried no weight in this case. they did so with no emotion either way. who are you to say what should happen to him? do you have some insight that the supreme court judges dont?

keefg · 10-11-2009 04:35PM

Marshall Damaged Bongo wrote: »

So the answer to my question is 'NO', ok you could have just said that.

Ahh...truly spoken like a person who is too ignorant to comprehend an opinion that differs with their own.

Marshall Damaged Bongo wrote: »

Maybe the Hitler thingy was too complicated, so I'll just say 'No' then.

Not too complicated but I can see from a mile off that it's just a regular line you reel off when you defend the actions of any military personnel.

I don't buy into the "Boo Hoo, I had a tough time during my military service. I'm the victim here, please pity me." defence.

PirateShampoo · 10-11-2009 04:37PM

Some of you people make me laugh with your hippy ideals.

October 2

At 5:20pm, a shot was fired through a window of a Michaels Craft Store in Aspen Hill. As no one was injured, no serious alarms were raised.

At 6:30pm, James Martin, a 55-year-old program analyst at NOAA, was shot and killed in the parking lot of a Shoppers Food Warehouse grocery store.

October 3

At 7:41am, James L. Buchanan, a 39-year-old landscaper known as "Sonny", was shot dead in Montgomery County near Rockville, Maryland. Buchanan was shot while mowing the grass at the Fitzgerald Auto Mall.

At 8:12am, 54-year-old part-time taxi driver Premkumar Walekar was killed in Aspen Hill in Montgomery County, while pumping gasoline into his taxi at a Mobil station at Aspen Hill Road and Connecticut Avenue.

Sarah Ramos, a 34-year-old babysitter and housekeeper, was killed at 8:37am at the Leisure World Shopping Center in Aspen Hill. She had gotten off a bus, and was seated on a bench, reading a book.

At 9:58am, in what was to be the last killing of the morning, 25-year-old Lori Ann Lewis-Rivera was killed while vacuuming her Dodge Caravan at the Shell station at the intersection of Connecticut & Knowles Avenues in Kensington, Maryland.

The snipers then waited until 9:15pm before shooting Pascal Charlot, a 72-year-old retired carpenter, while he was walking on Georgia Avenue at Kalmia Road, in Washington, D.C. Charlot died less than an hour later.

October 4

43-year-old Caroline Seawell was wounded at 2:30pm in the parking lot of a Michaels Craft Store at Spotsylvania Mall in Spotsylvania County, Virginia, just outside the city of Fredericksburg, while she was loading purchases into her minivan.

October 7

at 8:09am, Iran Brown, a 13-year-old boy, was shot in the chest as he arrived at the Benjamin Tasker Middle School.

October 9

at 8:18pm, 53-year-old Dean Harold Meyers was shot dead while pumping gasoline at a Sunoco gas station.

October 14

at 9:15pm, 47-year-old Linda Franklin, an FBI intelligence analyst who was a resident of Arlington County, Virginia, was shot dead after she finished shopping.

October 22

Last victim bus driver Conrad Johnson was shot dead at 5:56am while standing on the steps of his bus.

Now one of you defend his actions by saying he was depressed and doesnt deserve to die.

arybvtcw0eolkf · 10-11-2009 04:42PM

PirateShampoo wrote: »

Now one of you defend his actions by saying he was depressed and doesnt deserve to die.

I don't know about people defending his actions, I certainly don't.

However I think people are right to question how justice is done, we might all differ on our opinions but if we weren't allowed them the alternative is kangaroo courts and lynch mobs.

major bill · 10-11-2009 04:43PM

PirateShampoo wrote: »

Some of you people make me laugh with your hippy ideals.

October 2

At 5:20pm, a shot was fired through a window of a Michaels Craft Store in Aspen Hill. As no one was injured, no serious alarms were raised.

At 6:30pm, James Martin, a 55-year-old program analyst at NOAA, was shot and killed in the parking lot of a Shoppers Food Warehouse grocery store.

October 3

At 7:41am, James L. Buchanan, a 39-year-old landscaper known as "Sonny", was shot dead in Montgomery County near Rockville, Maryland. Buchanan was shot while mowing the grass at the Fitzgerald Auto Mall.

At 8:12am, 54-year-old part-time taxi driver Premkumar Walekar was killed in Aspen Hill in Montgomery County, while pumping gasoline into his taxi at a Mobil station at Aspen Hill Road and Connecticut Avenue.

Sarah Ramos, a 34-year-old babysitter and housekeeper, was killed at 8:37am at the Leisure World Shopping Center in Aspen Hill. She had gotten off a bus, and was seated on a bench, reading a book.

At 9:58am, in what was to be the last killing of the morning, 25-year-old Lori Ann Lewis-Rivera was killed while vacuuming her Dodge Caravan at the Shell station at the intersection of Connecticut & Knowles Avenues in Kensington, Maryland.

The snipers then waited until 9:15pm before shooting Pascal Charlot, a 72-year-old retired carpenter, while he was walking on Georgia Avenue at Kalmia Road, in Washington, D.C. Charlot died less than an hour later.

October 4

43-year-old Caroline Seawell was wounded at 2:30pm in the parking lot of a Michaels Craft Store at Spotsylvania Mall in Spotsylvania County, Virginia, just outside the city of Fredericksburg, while she was loading purchases into her minivan.

October 7

at 8:09am, Iran Brown, a 13-year-old boy, was shot in the chest as he arrived at the Benjamin Tasker Middle School.

October 9

at 8:18pm, 53-year-old Dean Harold Meyers was shot dead while pumping gasoline at a Sunoco gas station.

October 14

at 9:15pm, 47-year-old Linda Franklin, an FBI intelligence analyst who was a resident of Arlington County, Virginia, was shot dead after she finished shopping.

October 22

Last victim bus driver Conrad Johnson was shot dead at 5:56am while standing on the steps of his bus.

Now one of you defend his actions by saying he was depressed and doesnt deserve to die.

good post. The man had no passion for human life therefore should face up to what he did and if thats the death penelty so be it!!!! the health issue card gets used too much in this day and age, cowards way out imo.

Dudess · 10-11-2009 04:44PM

PeakOutput wrote: »

why?

the supreme court of the united states of america looked at the mental health evidence and decided it carried no weight in this case. they did so with no emotion either way.

That was my response to the usual "well what if it happened to your relatives" reasoning, which is irrelevant seeing as the relatives aren't sentencing him.

who are you to say what should happen to him? do you have some insight that the supreme court judges dont?

Ok, it's my opinion he should have been incarcerated for life - I prefer my states not to have the power to kill people...

TalkingHorse · 10-11-2009 04:46PM

did this guy do this in order to cover up the murder of his ex-wife rather than for a ransom? If so even more scary and pre-meditated.

Life rotting in jail probably worse than the death penalty in my opinion

PeakOutput · 10-11-2009 04:47PM

Dudess wrote: »

That was my response to the usual "well what if it happened to your relatives" reasoning, which is irrelevant seeing as the relatives aren't sentencing him.

ah ok fair enough you can ignore what i said so

Ok, it's my opinion he should have been incarcerated for life - I prefer my states not to have the power to kill people...

ok

for the record i wouldnt particularly support the death penalty in ireland for the simple reason i dont think we need it but americas society is so ****ed up i do believe they need it

arybvtcw0eolkf · 10-11-2009 04:49PM

TalkingHorse wrote: »

Life rotting in jail probably worse than the death penalty in my opinion

I would think so too.

I find it hard accepting that one human (and I don't care who appoints them) has the right of life and death over another. Thats something I really can't understand, how can one deliberate over the life of another?.

IvySlayer · 10-11-2009 04:50PM

PeakOutput wrote: »

ah ok fair enough you can ignore what i said so

ok

for the record i wouldnt particularly support the death penalty in ireland for the simple reason i dont think we need it but americas society is so ****ed up i do believe they need it

Errrr...This guy knew killing could've resulted in him being executed?

major bill · 10-11-2009 04:51PM

TalkingHorse wrote: »

did this guy do this in order to cover up the murder of his ex-wife rather than for a ransom? If so even more scary and pre-meditated.

Life rotting in jail probably worse than the death penalty in my opinion

this costs taxpayers money and lots of it to keep him in jail for life!! money im sure most americans wouldnt like to be seen spent on this ''monster''!!!!!

not technically my opinion but could be a way of looking at it!!!money in america it seems is more important than life!!!

keefg · 10-11-2009 04:52PM

Dudess wrote: »

Ok, it's my opinion he should have been incarcerated for life - I prefer my states not to have the power to kill people...

That's a very valid point of view. I can certainly understand people who don't agree with the justice system practised in some American states.

On the other side, I know plenty of Americans who think we have a crazy justice system.

Try as I might I couldn't get them to understand that a life term in prison normally means 12-15 years.

Or that our courts issue fines or community service for crimes such as theft & assault or (in a well publicised case) the possession of child pornography.

Who's to say which justice system is right and which is wrong?

PirateShampoo · 10-11-2009 04:55PM

Marshall Damaged Bongo wrote: »

I find it hard accepting that one human (and I don't care who appoints them) has the right of life and death over another.

Says who?

John Allen Muhammad doesnt seem to think so either.

Kradock · 10-11-2009 04:56PM

Do you remember that scene in Schindler's list where the German camp commander stood at his window and randomly selected people to shoot.

This mad bastard was the same skulking in the back of a specially prepared car / van and selecting people to die.

John Allen Muhammad is everything that should be dispised in this world and any bleeding heart liberal saying otherwise is in need of a reality check.

keefg · 10-11-2009 04:57PM

PirateShampoo wrote: »

Says who?

John Allen Muhammad doesnt seem to think so either.

+1

Here's a guy who ruthlessly executed people going about their daily business and yet is looking for "compassion" when it comes to his time to meet his maker.

IvySlayer · 10-11-2009 05:00PM

PirateShampoo wrote: »

Says who?

John Allen Muhammad doesnt seem to think so either.

Murder is still murder. Just because it's a judge doesn't make it better or right.

This guy needs to suffer for the rest of his life. Not get an easy way out today.

If everyone keeps taking an eye for an eye, people will end up blind.*

*Yeah I messed that quote..

PirateShampoo · 10-11-2009 05:03PM

If it was a eye for a eye Muhmmad would need to be blinded 6 times over.

PeakOutput · 10-11-2009 05:05PM

IvySlayer wrote: »

Errrr...This guy knew killing could've resulted in him being executed?

whats your point?

PirateShampoo · 10-11-2009 05:06PM

What is unreal though is that they managed to shop lift the sniper rifle and that the owner of the gun shop said it was a regular thing and cant account for 100s of his guns.

Herers the Wiki page on it all

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beltway_sniper_attacks

IvySlayer · 10-11-2009 05:07PM

PeakOutput wrote: »

whats your point?

For a deterrent it wasn't very effective in his case.

The Virginia sniper..

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