The Four Nations.

toomevara · 27-10-2009 10:34am

AdeT wrote: »

Have BBC just managed to pull off a result by getting this game live? Oz MUST win after their draw and Eng are still pretty embarrassed after last years WC. Could be a corker.

Astonishingly, and quite out of left field, yes!..Coverage starts at 2:10 on BBC1..John Kear's in the commentary box too.

I worry for England...having seen what the Aussies are capable of at first hand, coming in cold, with no warm up against a massively physical, fired up, committed Kiwi side. I reckon England are in for very,very torrid time to say the least. The Roo's ring-rustiness was evident at the Stoop, with the Aussie combinations just not quite firing giving the kiwis that extra half second, but I reckon come the weekend they'll be right in the zone. One thing's for certain, England start like they did against the French and it'll be all over in the first quarter...

AdeT · 27-10-2009 2:25pm

toomevara wrote: »

Astonishingly, and quite out of left field, yes!..Coverage starts at 2:10 on BBC1..John Kear's in the commentary box too.

I worry for England...having seen what the Aussies are capable of at first hand, coming in cold, with no warm up against a massively physical, fired up, committed Kiwi side. I reckon England are in for very,very torrid time to say the least. The Roo's ring-rustiness was evident at the Stoop, with the Aussie combinations just not quite firing giving the kiwis that extra half second, but I reckon come the weekend they'll be right in the zone. One thing's for certain, England start like they did against the French and it'll be all over in the first quarter...

Kear is one of the few who talks sense and comes across well - pretty important when RL is so rarely on the Beeb

I agree that the Roos are going to be sharper and tighter this week. Fingers crossed the Wigan crowd gets behind England and give them a lift. Very intrigued to see the team selections. There were some suggesting that TS might brnig in Tompkins for the big games but I just don't see it happening. Myler went well at the weekend.

I wonder if Gaz Ellis might have an inside line on some of Sheens' structures in attack and defence. Any help would be welcome i'm sure!!!

toomevara · 27-10-2009 3:39pm

AdeT wrote: »

I wonder if Gaz Ellis might have an inside line on some of Sheens' structures in attack and defence. Any help would be welcome i'm sure!!!

Good point and while we're on the subject, if England could find twelve more like Ellis, they'd put the fear of God into anyone. I thought he was one of the main reasons The French encounter didn't turn into a PNG style debacle. Fabulous player and a real leader on the field.

Thought Myler was alright, but didn't look as convincing as I'd hoped. Anyway fingers crossed for the Wigan game and here's hoping we get to see England in the Final at Elland.

WakeyTyke · 27-10-2009 9:50pm

AdeT wrote: »

Kear is one of the few who talks sense and comes across well - pretty important when RL is so rarely on the Beeb

I agree that the Roos are going to be sharper and tighter this week. Fingers crossed the Wigan crowd gets behind England and give them a lift. Very intrigued to see the team selections. There were some suggesting that TS might brnig in Tompkins for the big games but I just don't see it happening. Myler went well at the weekend.

I wonder if Gaz Ellis might have an inside line on some of Sheens' structures in attack and defence. Any help would be welcome i'm sure!!!

John Kear is RL's equivalent of Harry Rednapp, the man eats, sleeps and breathes RL and is adored by Wakefield fans.

Whilst Myler showed that he is sharp at spotting an opening I fear that the Aussies will target him in defence, we will badly miss Burrow's bravery in defence. Likewise if Tompkins plays, although his defence is good I can't see him holding back the Aussie's combination of pace and power. Tompkins does offer a better kicking option which generally was very poor against France.

couerdelion · 29-10-2009 12:14am

Am I the only one who isn't keen on Myler?

I thought in the first half of the season he was fantastic and was going to become a real superstar, but as soon as talk about a transfer surfaced his form dropped.

In the France match back in June he was outstanding, last weekend though ordinary.

I know he's only young but surely we should be picking on form? Bring the youngsters into the squad and on the bench but Burrow should have been in the 13.

AdeT · 29-10-2009 10:28am

couerdelion wrote: »

Am I the only one who isn't keen on Myler?

I thought in the first half of the season he was fantastic and was going to become a real superstar, but as soon as talk about a transfer surfaced his form dropped.

In the France match back in June he was outstanding, last weekend though ordinary.

I know he's only young but surely we should be picking on form? Bring the youngsters into the squad and on the bench but Burrow should have been in the 13.

Burrow hasn't had a great season and I think was left out for that reason.

I know what you mean about Myler's form but I think once it was made clear he would be moving on from Salford they pushed him to the fringes; the suggestion was that he was walking away from the club who had invested most in him (he was actually a Widnes product). I think Martin Offiah is to blame for his dropping, and dealt with the prospect of Myler moving on like a money hungry football agent. If this is to become the norm for young players there may be trouble ahead.

My opinion no Myler is, he's the most talented young (out-and-out) 7 in England and will be their half back for years to come. I think TS is maybe just putting him in for a while and giving him the opoprtunity to develop ni the international game. Tompkins is an unbelievable talent and will probably be the Stand-off for England for years to come. In my opinion Eastmond is the most all-round talented of the three...he just needs to settle into a position with Saints. Once he's done that maybe we'll see just how good he is

Stev_o · 29-10-2009 11:17am

Aussie squad is up

BBC wrote:

Australia: Slater; B Morris, Inglis, Hodges, Hayne; Lockyer (capt), Thurston; Civoniceva, Smith, Hannant, Watmough, Gallen, Hindmarsh. Replacements (from): Farah, White, Lewis, Shillington, Waterhouse, Gidley.

Anyone else think that Michael Jennings should of got a look in over Hodges? Thought Hodges was fairly poor agaisnt the Kiwi's.

AdeT · 29-10-2009 11:24am

Stev_o wrote: »

Aussie squad is up

Anyone else think that Michael Jennings should of got a look in over Hodges? Thought Hodges was fairly poor agaisnt the Kiwi's.

Jennings is a top player and plays quite loose. That doesn't necessarily go with the Roos' approach to RL. I'd love to see him in there somewhere - he'd at least bring some excitement to procedings.

WakeyTyke · 29-10-2009 11:41am

couerdelion wrote: »

Am I the only one who isn't keen on Myler?

I thought in the first half of the season he was fantastic and was going to become a real superstar, but as soon as talk about a transfer surfaced his form dropped.

In the France match back in June he was outstanding, last weekend though ordinary.

I know he's only young but surely we should be picking on form? Bring the youngsters into the squad and on the bench but Burrow should have been in the 13.

Agree totally. I can understand the desire to develop a young England team for the next WC but they are throwing the baby out with the bath water with the current selection policy.

If the team was being selected on form, as laughingly suggested by Tony Smith, then there is no way that Myler would be in ahead of Burrow or Brough.

The inexperience of Myler, Tompkins or Eastmond will be cruelly exploited by Sheens team.

AdeT · 29-10-2009 12:09pm

WakeyTyke wrote: »

Agree totally. I can understand the desire to develop a young England team for the next WC but they are throwing the baby out with the bath water with the current selection policy.

If the team was being selected on form, as laughingly suggested by Tony Smith, then there is no way that Myler would be in ahead of Burrow or Brough.

The inexperience of Myler, Tompkins or Eastmond will be cruelly exploited by Sheens team.

Smith has been hypocritical with suggesting he was selecting solely on form. However, Burrow's form has been no better than any of the three young players. And, I know by your name I'll be unpopular for this, I don't think Brough offers enough to play internation RL. He's an excellent SL player and steers his team around very effectively, but you need to have that extra spark to make the transition and I just don't think he has it.

The three younger players would be targetted by Sheens but they've been targeted all season in the league. Eastmond has also played in a Grand Final in front of 65,000 ish fans so can handle the big occasion. While I'm currently more in the Myler camp as he's a more out-and-out 7, this weekend may be the ideal game to bring Tompkins into international RL in front of his home crowd on a ground he knows very well.

AdeT · 29-10-2009 3:03pm

So the teams are up. I half-surprised Tompkins has come in but it's the perfect set-up for him. Absolutely nothing to lose.

That English pack is huge. Some big guys with good work-rates there. Maybe Burgess will make an impact off the bench. Not surprised to see only one utility player on the bench with three forwards.

Earlier kick-off than I thought (dunno why! shoud've looked at the tickets) so it'll be walkabout in Wigan for 12:30 for a few VBs and a bit of banter with the Aussies.

I'm not overly confident for the result but I'm very happy with that pack. My preference would be to have Purdham at loose, i think he's class, but he's injured and Sinfield's kicking game will, hopefully, turn the Oz back three around and gain some territory for England.

Dozen Wicked Words · 31-10-2009 4:20pm

Terrible first half from England, they will have to beat the Kiwis by some distance to stand a chance of making the final. Australia have played well, mostly because England have let them.

ednwireland · 31-10-2009 4:52pm

watching it with my eyes closed terrible game from england

Stev_o · 31-10-2009 5:09pm

Seriously i can't see why Smith is constantly picking McGuire at this stage his international form is rubbish compared to his Leeds form. Tomkins and Eastmond have some energy and pace when playing with eachother.

ednwireland · 31-10-2009 5:16pm

better 2nd half but england still made too many mistakes

toomevara · 31-10-2009 7:48pm

The most appalling cliche of all, so here goes; the classic game of two halves...England started like rabbits caught in headlights, which tends to happen an awful lot with the Aussies...an inferiority complex? After the first quarter I thought things were going to get ugly on a biblical scale, but England seemed to decide the aussies were human after all and stepped up, found the pace and ended up playing very well, thank you very much...

Tomkins was huge and more than justified his selection, Gaz Ellis is a man mountain (in general the pack were great), and Graham was instrumental in the fightback. If England can overcome their fear of the Aussies (too much respect perhaps?) they can beat them in the final. I'm tipping them to edge the Kiwis (just) next weekend....

toomevara · 01-11-2009 7:27am

France 12 New Zealand 62. Oh dear. more grist to my 'Should've been Ireland' mill......

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_league/8334785.stm

Stev_o · 01-11-2009 1:54pm

toomevara wrote: »

France 12 New Zealand 62. Oh dear. more grist to my 'Should've been Ireland' mill......

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_league/8334785.stm

I guess but the French have at least French players while our team is bit more 1980's soccer style Irish:p

amacachi · 01-11-2009 1:57pm

Also I have to admit I can't see us having done any better.

Stev_o · 01-11-2009 2:00pm

Looks like we won't be involved next year either

BBC wrote:

PNG seal 2010 Four Nations berth
David Mead
Mead starred for Papua New Guinea at the Lloyd Robson Oval

Papua New Guinea qualified for the 2010 Four Nations series with a 42-14 win over the Cook Islands in the Pacific Cup final in Port Moresby.

The hosts dominated from the start to establish a 20-10 half-time lead.

They raced away after the interval thanks to a hat-trick of tries from Gold Coast Titans youngster David Mead.

Sheffield Eagles centre Menzie Yere also capped a tremendous tournament with two tries as a young Cook Islands team were outclassed by the Kumuls.

PNG will take the place of France in the Four Nations for 2010, lining up alongside Australia, New Zealand and England.

Kumuls captain John Wilshere, the Salford full-back or winger, said: "This means so much to all our boys and everyone here in this country.

"Rugby league is our national sport, we love it, and next year we're going to be playing in the Four Nations and that's a massive boost for Papua New Guinea."

PNG coach Adrian Lam said: "I don't think it's really sunk in yet that we're in the Four Nations but we're excited about it and we'll get our heads around it soon enough."

toomevara · 01-11-2009 4:54pm

Stev_o wrote: »

Looks like we won't be involved next year either

Saw this today, astonishing...'piss-up' and 'brewery' springs to mind....don't get me wrong, I'm all for the game getting a boost wherever it can, but Wales, Scotland, Ireland...trumped by PNG. Just insane, how can you deny the winner of the Euro cup, whoever it may be, entry to the 4 nations!

Dozen Wicked Words · 01-11-2009 8:06pm

I suppose PNG are due some reward after being well and truly stiffed by the authorities in the last World Cup.

How Is the criteria for 4th team worked out? Are they alternating Northern/Southern hemisphere?

OldJay · 02-11-2009 8:52am

toomevara wrote: »

Saw this today, astonishing...'piss-up' and 'brewery' springs to mind....don't get me wrong, I'm all for the game getting a boost wherever it can, but Wales, Scotland, Ireland...trumped by PNG. Just insane, how can you deny the winner of the Euro cup, whoever it may be, entry to the 4 nations!

The game is huge in PNG. In fact, its their national sport.
Fair call, I'd say.
Why does it only have to be four teams though is what you should be asking.

AdeT · 02-11-2009 11:37am

dooferoaks wrote: »

I suppose PNG are due some reward after being well and truly stiffed by the authorities in the last World Cup.

How Is the criteria for 4th team worked out? Are they alternating Northern/Southern hemisphere?

As far as I know it's Oz, NZ, Eng + one other. This year it's France. While the tournament has been run there's been a Pacific nations cup; the winners go in next year's 4 nations. While it's on next year (down under) there'll be a Euro Nations cup (including France); the winners of that come in for the following season. I think this is what was announced when the international schedule was advertised.

toomevara · 02-11-2009 12:14pm

Justind wrote: »

Why does it only have to be four teams though is what you should be asking.

Totally agree, yet another of my pet peeves. Realise the game is the national sport of PNG, and they play it hard, fast and tough, (witness their exquisite embarassment of England in Townsville last year) perhaps best epitomised by the likes the ageless Stanley Gene...I've long advocated a six nation premier comp.

Dozen Wicked Words · 02-11-2009 12:44pm

toomevara wrote: »

Totally agree, yet another of my pet peeves. Realise the game is the national sport of PNG, and they play it hard, fast and tough, (witness their exquisite embarassment of England in Townsville last year) perhaps best epitomised by the likes the ageless Stanley Gene...I've long advocated a six nation premier comp.

Isn't there a risk you are going to end up turning it into a World Cup lite?

Two groups of 3, guarantees one of the big three a place in the final, where is the attraction for the other 2?

A group of 6 too many games after a long season? Or take too long?

Who decides the 6. So you have England, Australia, New Zealand, and who? France, Wales, Scotland, Ireland, PNG, Tonga, Fiji, Samoa.

Wouldn't a competition amalgamating the Pacific Cup and European Cup be of more use, or maybe as a way of deciding the fourth team in a four nations.

When was the last time anyone beat the big three other than each other?

Being honest, IMO, I think it should have stayed a Tri-Nations until there is a team outside the "big 3", showing regularly they are too good for the rest of the others, winning virtually every time they play. I don't think France or Ireland are anywhere near that.

toomevara · 02-11-2009 1:10pm

dooferoaks wrote: »

Isn't there a risk you are going to end up turning it into a World Cup lite?

Good point.

A group of 6 too many games after a long season? Or take too long?

Again possibly, but for me their isnt enough international rugby league of consequence. it's one of the major shop-windows for the game and a quality comp could really improve the popularity of the game.

Wouldn't a competition amalgamating the Pacific Cup and European Cup be of more use, or maybe as a way of deciding the fourth team in a four nations.

Really like that idea.

When was the last time anyone beat the big three other than each other?

France, GB 1990??? Only one I can think of off hand.

Being honest, IMO, I think it should have stayed a Tri-Nations until there is a team outside the "big 3", showing regularly they are too good for the rest of the others, winning virtually every time they play. I don't think France or Ireland are anywhere near that.

I reckon the French are nearly there on balance. We should remember it took the French union team the bones of 25 years to register a win over a 'home' nation. Its a chicken and egg debate I guess...Could a regular international shop window against the bigger teams be a good shop window for the game in that country and drum up interest? But again I take your point.

OldJay · 02-11-2009 11:26pm

toomevara wrote: »

Again possibly, but for me their isnt enough international rugby league of consequence. it's one of the major shop-windows for the game and a quality comp could really improve the popularity of the game

I've enjoyed the past two weekends of intl RL. Much better to watch than SL. Well worth the effort in that respect, in my opinion.
The match should have been packed to the rafters though.

AdeT · 03-11-2009 9:54am

Justind wrote: »

I've enjoyed the past two weekends of intl RL. Much better to watch than SL. Well worth the effort in that respect, in my opinion.
The match should have been packed to the rafters though.

Attendance at Wigan was pretty good - it looked almost full from our seats. Had a look at highlights on tv and it looked pretty poor. Maybe they should be careful which seats they fill up first so it doesn't look so poor if there are spare seats. They should be sold out though

Tickets now sorted for Huddersfield on Saturday. Can't wait

toomevara · 05-11-2009 7:43am

Kiwis have lost Eastwood for Saturday's game.

http://www.rugbyleague.com/rugby-league-news/kiwis-lose-eastwood.html

The Four Nations.

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