How do I talk to my friend about her poor personal hygiene?

LegacyUser · 04-11-2009 01:02AM #1

I've known my friend for years, and I've noticed before that she sometimes has noticeable body odour, but I assumed that was because she's quite overweight and gets a bit sweaty after doing very little exercise (sometimes walking up stairs or at a brisk pace has her out of breath)

Anyway, in September I moved in with her and two other friends, and I really began to notice it. I think she only showers once or twice a week... How do I talk to her about it, and let her know that she needs to wash more often, without dreadfully offending her? It has got worse recently, because she is trying to lose weight and has joined a gym, but has not upped her frequency of showering.

She is really self-conscious about her appearance, and knows she is fat, and gets upset about it - I don't want to quash what little self-confidence she has. It's really noticeable though, she has BO most days, and her clothes and her bedroom really smell. One of the other girls who lives with us told her one day that she really needed to wash her hair, and she got quite upset - but in fairness, it looked like someone has combed oil through it. It is a really sensitive issue, but in some ways I feel I'm being a bad friend NOT telling her - maybe she isn't aware of it, but I don't quite understand how she managed to get to the age of 23 without realising she should shower pretty much every day? I'd really appreciate advice, especially from people who have been in a similar situation, cos I feel I have to say something

netwhizkid · 04-11-2009 02:26AM

unregisted wrote: »

I've known my friend for years, and I've noticed before that she sometimes has noticeable body odour, but I assumed that was because she's quite overweight and gets a bit sweaty after doing very little exercise (sometimes walking up stairs or at a brisk pace has her out of breath)

Anyway, in September I moved in with her and two other friends, and I really began to notice it. I think she only showers once or twice a week... How do I talk to her about it, and let her know that she needs to wash more often, without dreadfully offending her? It has got worse recently, because she is trying to lose weight and has joined a gym, but has not upped her frequency of showering.

She is really self-conscious about her appearance, and knows she is fat, and gets upset about it - I don't want to quash what little self-confidence she has. It's really noticeable though, she has BO most days, and her clothes and her bedroom really smell. One of the other girls who lives with us told her one day that she really needed to wash her hair, and she got quite upset - but in fairness, it looked like someone has combed oil through it. It is a really sensitive issue, but in some ways I feel I'm being a bad friend NOT telling her - maybe she isn't aware of it, but I don't quite understand how she managed to get to the age of 23 without realising she should shower pretty much every day? I'd really appreciate advice, especially from people who have been in a similar situation, cos I feel I have to say something

Buy her Hygiene type stuff as her Christmas pressie maybe she will get the message.

kjl · 04-11-2009 03:32AM

bring it up next time you have a serious discussion, apologies in advance and assure her you are only saying it because you care about her. A real friend will understand.

cafecolour · 04-11-2009 04:48AM

It's probably ideal if you talk to her one-on-one non-confrontationally.

If you can't perhaps write her a note, and maybe all three of you sign it. Ala:

"XXXX we adore you and love living with you. This just one thing and it's a bit embarassing to say directly, so we wrote you a note. A lot of days you have BO and it's noticeable - probably to others as well. Otherwise your lovely, but honestly, you need to start showering every day."

Love A, B, & C

Overheal · 04-11-2009 06:26AM

one ive heard here before is make an inderect comment such as saying hey is something wrong with your washing machine?

though to be fair, most people upon hearing this might call a repairman. But theres plenty of indirect/innocent ways to bring this up to her.

petes · 04-11-2009 09:18AM

Overheal wrote: »

one ive heard here before is make an inderect comment such as saying hey is something wrong with your washing machine?

though to be fair, most people upon hearing this might call a repairman. But theres plenty of indirect/innocent ways to bring this up to her.

I heard that one before, not personally I might add. The only thing is they live in the same house!

Penn · 04-11-2009 01:10PM

netwhizkid wrote: »

Buy her Hygiene type stuff as her Christmas pressie maybe she will get the message.

I'd go with this one too. Then after a few weeks, if she still hasn't improved, casually ask if she liked your present and has she been using it much or something.

I would have thought that going to the gym would make her shower more often. Everyone I know showers straight after the gym. Perhaps offer to go with her to the gym a few times and you shower afterwards. Say how you feel really gross after working out like that. Offer her some of your shower gel or whatever. Maybe she'll start then. Even if she only goes to the gym 2 or 3 times a week, its more than what she does now.

Peggypeg · 04-11-2009 01:17PM

Hey OP,
I used to live with someone like that. She only showered every 4 days or so and her feet stank. She knew, I mean there's no way she couldn't, but she seemed happy enough about it, I think she just didn't particularly enjoy showering. But I can see were you're coming from, if you feel it would do her any good I would pull her aside and have a little chat. I wouldn't do it with anyone else there coz it'll be embarrassing enough for her with just you there. I'd say something along the lines of "you know I love you to bits, but I think I really need to say something for your own good. I really think you need to wash more, you have BO alot and your hair doesn't look clean, you wouldn't want to put people off would you?". I would also have a big hug and a cuppa at the ready.

LegacyUser · 04-11-2009 01:18PM

mmmm oh i dont think you should say anything to her, i think it will humiliate her and make her feel really uncomfortable in the house, she has obviously lived like this all her life, you may not be the right people to approach her because you live with her, is there anyone you know who could say it to her in a sensitive way, like a family member she has if you said it to them and someone could say it to her but that it didnt come from you,

i dont know but i just dont feel right about you and your friend making such an issue with it, like how much is it effecting you really, saying to her -a grown woman that she needs to wash her hair is a bit mean IMO, her room smelling is none of your business really, the body odour can be an issue but the way you both handled the hair thing and upset her does not say that you two are the best people to handle this.

LegacyUser · 04-11-2009 01:25PM

cafecolour wrote: »

It's probably ideal if you talk to her one-on-one non-confrontationally.

If you can't perhaps write her a note, and maybe all three of you sign it. Ala:

"XXXX we adore you and love living with you. This just one thing and it's a bit embarassing to say directly, so we wrote you a note. A lot of days you have BO and it's noticeable - probably to others as well. Otherwise your lovely, but honestly, you need to start showering every day."

Love A, B, & C

Whatever you do don't do that!!! Thats letting her know everyone has been talking about her behind her back! Very hurtful. Bite the bullet and have the one to one chat, with cup of tea and hugs and other posters said. Imagine if you were the one with this problem. You'd refer the direct but caring approach from one friend wouldn't you?

LegacyUser · 04-11-2009 04:54PM

OP again here. Thanks for all the responses, I just want to respond directly to a couple of them

netwhizkid wrote:

Buy her Hygiene type stuff as her Christmas pressie maybe she will get the message.

Ah, if only it were that simple. She has a hell of a lot of hygiene type stuff already, one of the other girls works in a soap shop and is always giving us bits and bobs. Also, for example, she bought two bottles of shampoo the other day, she just isn't using them enough. I honestly don't think she realises that she smells

Afriendy wrote:

i dont know but i just dont feel right about you and your friend making such an issue with it, like how much is it effecting you really, saying to her -a grown woman that she needs to wash her hair is a bit mean IMO, her room smelling is none of your business really, the body odour can be an issue but the way you both handled the hair thing and upset her does not say that you two are the best people to handle this.

I don't know where you got the impression that I was being mean to her about her hair, I wasn't even there when the other girl said it, but she goes around with very greasy hair a lot. The other girl is quite a blunt person as it is, and our friend had visited her in the shop where she works, and she said to me afterwards that she couldn't believe our friend had left the house with her hair like that. I haven't said anything at all to my friend, but I am really noticing it.
How much is it really affecting me? Well she has really low self-confidence around guys, she likes a guy she works with and talks about him every evening and asks for my advice on what she should be doing - there is absolutely no way he can't have noticed her BO, considering they both work behind a narrow counter serving customers, so my instinct is to recommend that she wash a bit more - I don't know about you guys, but I wouldn't like getting with someone with poor hygiene, it is so off-putting. You can flirt all you like, but if you smell it's going to put them off somewhat, am I wrong?
Also, because she's feeling down a lot recently, she is getting a lot more huggy and such. Being hugged by someone who hasn't washed for several days isn't very nice. Also she is a slob around the house, she leaves dirty plates everywhere and never washes up after herself, she'll very happily leave greasy cooking trays and stuff for several days until one of us gives in and cleans up after her. So yes, I'd say it is affecting me actually. You seem to have assumed I'm just being nasty for the sake of it, but if I was really that horrible why would I be seeking advice on the best way to talk to her about it WITHOUT hurting her feelings?

04-11-2009 06:16PM

There really is no easy way to do this, feelings will be hurt. But the only way is a brief, private conversation. Hopefully your friend will understand eventually and compared to some stranger (or worse a guy she fancies!) telling her bluntly some day ...

BUT what you can do in your situation is tell her that you've noticed the problem since she joined the gym. That way you get the personal hygiene message across, it's not her "fault" (it's the workouts) and there's no awkward questions like "how long have you noticed this?"

I know it's a lie but it will ease the pain for both of you and hopefully the changes she will make to her personal hygiene routine now will last. And if she slips back into the old routine, mention it straight away.

And you shouldn't hesitate to discuss the fact that she's a slob around the house ... this is a house share and everyone should pull their weight and be considerate of their housemates, simple as.

LegacyUser · 04-11-2009 06:27PM

Could you perhaps send her an annonymus e-mail? Just make up an e-mail address and send her a short email signed "from a concerned friend who loves you"....

midlandsmissus · 04-11-2009 08:36PM

To be honest I don't think you should say anything to her. It will be a very very hard thing to hear, especially coming from some-one she lives with and has to see every day.

Look at it this way, put yourself in her shoes. Imagine if one of your flatmates sat you down and said, "Look I'm sorry to tell you this, but you have really bad B.O and need to wash more. Wouldn't you be mortified?

Your flatmate sounds like a right b*tch, imagine telling a grown woman she needs to wash her hair. It's remarks like these that cut people to the core.

I remember there was a stage as a teenager, where no matter how much I washed my hair, it used to look like an oil slick the next day. I hated it myself and didnt need anybody pointing it out to me, but this girl said to me one day 'haha do you put gel in your hair?' I felt so bad about it and never forgot what she said.

I really do not think you are the person to have this conversation with her, ask her mum to have a word.

LegacyUser · 04-11-2009 09:02PM

OP again here

midlandsmissus wrote:

I really do not think you are the person to have this conversation with her, ask her mum to have a word.

We're actually in London, her family and mine are in Ireland so I'm not sure that will work either. Anyway, she's not very close with her family, her mother remarried and kinda has a new family, and her father hasn't been in her life much. When she is home she usually stays with her grandmother. Also I figured that if she's got this far in her life without her family saying anything, they're unlikely to. When I was 12 or 13 my older sister would never have let me out of the house if I smelled, she was the one who insisted that I start having a shower every day and use deodorant - maybe my friend has just never had anyone looking out for her like that, since she doesn't have an older sibling and her mother has never been too close to her.

midlandsmissus wrote:

Your flatmate sounds like a right b*tch, imagine telling a grown woman she needs to wash her hair. It's remarks like these that cut people to the core.

I remember there was a stage as a teenager, where no matter how much I washed my hair, it used to look like an oil slick the next day. I hated it myself and didnt need anybody pointing it out to me, but this girl said to me one day 'haha do you put gel in your hair?' I felt so bad about it and never forgot what she said.

I appreciate what you're saying, and I agree that it was pretty tactless of our flatmate to be as blunt as that. However, it's slightly different in that you washed your hair a lot and it got greasy, whereas my friend really isn't washing enough at all. She smells, and her clothes smell - just today I noticed that her aprons and things from work that are hanging up to dry still smell of BO, even though she has actually washed them, the smell seems to permeate the fabric. I must sound like a complete b*tch, I'm just concerned that if I'm noticing it that other people are as well, and like I've said already her self-confidence is really low as it is and I want to help her without embarrassing her

neuro-praxis · 04-11-2009 09:07PM

midlandsmissus wrote: »

Look at it this way, put yourself in her shoes. Imagine if one of your flatmates sat you down and said, "Look I'm sorry to tell you this, but you have really bad B.O and need to wash more. Wouldn't you be mortified?

Sometimes, just sometimes, it's ok to be mortified. This smelly woman has a good friend who cares about her and having this conversation now may help her in future relationships, house-shares, and perhaps even in getting jobs! I wouldn't employ a smelly person.

fonpokno · 04-11-2009 09:29PM

I have a friend like that too and had to say it to her before. Yeah it's embarrassing for everyone involved but it worked out for the best in the end.

She either isn't aware that she has BO or thinks everyone else is oblivious. Talk to her on your own, if you and the other girl talk to her together she'll feel like ye're ganging up on her. It is for her own good no matter who here is calling you selfish. She's 23, she can't live the rest of her life not washing regularly.

xzanti · 04-11-2009 10:14PM

Wait until you are all in a group chatting and then start talking to each other about many times a week you each shower etc.. say things like "God I'd feel mingin if I went 2 days without a shower" without directing anything at her.. and talk about the different products you all use, recommend nice bath oils for each other etc... That's what I'd do anyway..

If she doesn't get the message from that then maybe a more direct approach may be needed

Best of luck with it..

herya · 04-11-2009 10:31PM

Actually poor personal hygiene might be an indicator of deeper body image issues. If she's struggling with her weight and doesn't accept her physicality it might be related - "I hate my body so I can't bring myself to care for it, I pretend it doesn't exist".

I'm not sure if you can do anything about it, it might be too big an issue for a friend to tackle (counselling might help), but I would definitely try the "concerned friend" approach, talking to her discreetly but openly. This should minimise the impact but still deliver the message.

Faith · 04-11-2009 10:36PM

unregisted wrote: »

IShe smells, and her clothes smell - just today I noticed that her aprons and things from work that are hanging up to dry still smell of BO, even though she has actually washed them, the smell seems to permeate the fabric.

Aprons? Does she work with food? TBH if she has BO as badly as you say, and she works with food, I'm surprised her employer hasn't said anything to her. I think, in this case, you really do need to just take her aside and say it to her as tactfully as you can. It's for her own good. Sure, she'll be embarrassed, but it's worth it in the long run.

ManBurger · 04-11-2009 10:40PM

You sound young so I've sign up an account just to share with you my wisdom on the subject.

If she's overweight a lot of the smell would be caused by her diet aswell, We had a fat lad living with us like that, greasy hair - overweight,

Can't do much about that I'm afraid - you've learned a valuable lesson here about flatmates. I've learned old people don't make good flat mates recently.

Also in my many years of house shares bad housemate list

Alcoholics.
Exclusively Polish houses.

fabbydabby · 04-11-2009 11:39PM

God yeah I shared with an alco as well. Not recommended. Constantly warm beer from hiding it in the hotpress lest it be consumed from under your proverbial nose.

Uh, anyway, I have never had a chronic personal hygine problem, though I do distinctly remember one occasion where a few lazy late morning starts and late nights and lack of deoderant combo left me smelling fairly ripe, to the extent that on the final day I even started to notice it myself and wondered if other people would too.

Before I got a chance to get home to the shower a guy (who I didn't even know very well) simply said to me "man you smell like fkin sh!t, go take a fkin shower will you?".

That was twelve years ago and to this day I have not forgotten it.

The point is this girl needs to be told, and will appreciate it long term.. There is no question. I know girls have a better grasp on the whole concept of subtlety than us boys do so maybe dropping hints might work.

Really, a few tears into her bag of pretzels is infinitely preferable to a few years smelling like a weightlifter's underpants hamper.

daisydotty · 05-11-2009 12:15AM

Firstly i think this girl is very lucky to have you as a friend!!!a lot of people would be just way too embarrassed to say it and prob just leave her off the way she is.
but you do care about her and you care what others think of her and that's what matters.of course it's a very hard thing to say to someone but maybe you could say that you've noticed that her personal hygiene has fallen and you're just worried about her and is everything ok.
if def sounds like her issues with her weight have kinda maybe led her to not taking any pride in her appearance.i recently lost a good bit of weight (that needed losing!!!) and i really find taking more interest in my appearance-i love getting into the shower or bath now with a new smelly or treating my hair to a conditioning treatment and obviously with clothes i feel better about myself.i'm no skinny malinky now but it has made me more positive!
i don't think theres any easy way to say it to her and i hope you get the courage to tell her.she will be upset but say it doesnt change how you feel about her as a friend and that if it was the other way around you hope she'd tell you.good luck anyway girl!

Candlemaker · 05-11-2009 04:02AM

Look one thing you might want to look into as the above posters have touched on is does she actually shower. Some people with bad diets or just bad lifestyles can just sweat a lot more. I know i shower every day and i went through periods where i'd be smelling of BO. The problem is that even if it isn't that bad, if the clothes smell of it and it impregnates then the cycle continues on past the showers and the clothes washing. Only solution is to get new clothes really. My dad at the time pointed it out. I felt at the time like saying "well F*** you too" but i'm glad in the end he pointed it out.

And for all the people who are mentioning if it affects the op, i'd say first off, yeah as a house mate i'm sure you probably do smell that and it's nice to live with. Second, would you rather give a friend a brief moment of embarrassment coupled with success later? Or save yourself the embarrassment (and her) and let her live on oblivious to the fact that everyone else can smell it?

The explaining it on the gym idea was definitely the way to go.

LegacyUser · 05-11-2009 05:03AM

OP, you definately have to tell your friend this, one on one. If you do the group thing and start dropping hints it will come across as being bitchy and she may feel you are all ganging up on her.

I recall my friend had a chimney fire in her house years ago. When she got dressed up to go out, her clothes smelled of smoke. I had to tell her and she was cross with me at first. I just gave her my clothes to go out in. Not quiet the same but believe me if she is angry at you for telling her, she will thank you when she realises you only did it for her good.

If she is truely your friend, man up (so to speak) take her to one side, tell her you love her and this is incredibly hard for you to tell her but you must. If she ever wants to be found attractive by the opposite sex or indeed make new friends, the BO must be tackled.

As regards the smell staying with her clothes, if you get as far as telling her, suggest vinegar instead of conditioner in the rinse cycle. Its excellent at removing odours (which, if she works with food, could be caused by stale food odours)!!

LegacyUser · 05-11-2009 09:48AM

Hey, not quite the same thing but I recently lived with a girl who had some minging habits, never washed the floor dirty dishes left for a month to grow mould before they'd be cleaned. I went away for a week and a half and came back and the place was a kip. I took the cowards way out and txt her. But I approached it from the angle, hey I know you've been working really crazy shifts lately but if you get a chance could you clear off the dishes. If you approach the situation with a bit of empathy and start with understanding she should be okay about it. I thought my housemate would blow up but she was really apologetic and so nice about it.

LegacyUser · 05-11-2009 05:11PM

Try :
In general:
"My deodorant is crap, I must get a new one, do you know of a good one?"
If you're out walking
"God I'm sweatin now, can't wait to get home and have a shower"
When she is back form the gym
"How'd ya get on in the gym?" then follow up what kind of exercises and say "God that must be hard work, I'd be sweatin if I did that" maybe give her some praise for going to the gym too.
"What did you think of the soap -friend who works in soap shop- brought home, I really liked it"
TV:
"That shampoo/deo/showergel looks good I must give it a try" .

All of these are just nice normal things that can be said in passing wihtout being bitchy and although she may not mention herself at all it may make her think about it.

If her family are as crap as you say then that's probably why she is like this, if they never really cared about her she may not care too much for herself.

Although all that said, there was a girl in my class in school who had very bad BO and greasy hair (not overweight tho) and was the subject of many bitching sessions until we went on a school trip for a week and showered every morning and still had the BO and then we all felt bloody bad about ourselves.

dudara · 06-11-2009 02:07PM

Here are my thoughts on this

1. Forget the oblique references to deodarant, grooming etc. This is beating around the bush and pointless.

2. Talk to her directly. This is going to be no easy way to do this, so start off with a kind word but make sure you tell her explicitly. Make sure to reinforce your affection for this girl and that you are not telling her out of cruelty.

3. Do not talk to her in a group. This would be too pressurised for her and potentially very embarassing. Do her the kindness of taking her aside and talking to her one-on-one.

Lollipops23 · 06-11-2009 03:04PM

hmm this is a really tough one.

Ok, you said she's trying to lose weight?How about this, compliment her efforts and ask her if she wants a bit of a pamper night to celebrate her new look?get some exfoliant stuff, lotions etc and tell her that after having a lovely shower and exfoliant session that you can do facepacks, manicure/pedicure etc. Drive home the fact that she needs to have a nice foamy shower first and even get her deep conditioner for her hair. Join in with her too.

It might make her realise how nice it is to pamper yourself and how nice she feels/smells after. Hopefully she'll start taking pride in her appearance.

Trillian · 06-11-2009 03:09PM

I think it's nice that you want to do something about this, it would be much easier to sweep it under the carpet. I once had to be told something embarassing by a housemate (too embarassing even to repeat here!) and although I was glad in the end that it'd been said, I would've preferred she went about it in a different way. Basically, the girl that had the problem said it to our other flatmate who said it to me. This made me feel like they'd been talking about it behind my back.

I definitely think one to one is the way to go, maybe in the evening when you're having a cuppa in front of the telly. The atmosphere is bound to be uncomfortable afterwards so at least this way you can scoot off to bed. Things like this are always better after a sleep. Bringing up the gym as a starting off point makes it much easier for you to broach the subject rather than just blurting it out.

Hints at shampoos/showers/pampering stuff are unlikely to have any effect. She's not stupid, she either doesn't know she smells or she thinks that other people don't notice it.

Good luck! I know it seems a like a huge deal now but in a couple of weeks it'll be all forgotten about.

4Xcut · 06-11-2009 11:35PM

Just a heads up. It may not be a great idea to blame the smell on her recently starting to go to the gym. If she's quite overweight, it's great that she's starting to make an effort to get healthy. It may discourage her from going to the gym if she thinks that's the cause of her smelling.

More on topic: Fair dues to you OP, this can't be an easy situation, both having to say it to her and having to live with the smell. Best solution in my opinion is to have a quite word with her but in a nice way as has been said before. Best of luck.

How do I talk to my friend about her poor personal hygiene?

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