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The HSE: organising a piss-up in a brewery

  • 30-10-2009 07:10PM
    #1
    peasant
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,789 ✭✭✭✭


    ...if only ...at least there they couldn't do no harm by failing.

    Because failing is what they are doing ...again!

    This time it's about a simple logistical (but kinda important) task like delivering the swine flu vaccine

    This is how they said the would and should do it
    The HSE is grateful for the support and participation of so many GP Practices in the Swine Flu Vaccination Programme. Deliveries of Pandemrix, the Swine Flu Vaccine, commenced via the usual Cold Chain system this week.
    http://www.hse.ie/eng/services/swineflu/vaccine/GP/

    This is how the cold chain works (or is supposed to work)
    http://www.immunisation.ie/en/Downloads/PDFFile_15098_en.pdf


    now ...imagine my consternation when I met the regular parcel delivery guy in Sligo today (company not named for legal reasons) with his quite lukewarm, unchilled sprinter van full of flu vaccine. He's been driving around Sligo all day (43 doctors he mentioned) delivering now well warmed and most likely spoiled vaccine.


    But it gets worse ...he was also delivering it to at least three doctors who aren't participating in the vaccination scheme ...more money out the window
    A NUMBER of GPs who have opted not to participate in the HSE’s swine flu vaccination programme of at-risk patients yesterday received deliveries of the pandemic vaccine by mistake.
    “They are out and delivering this to people that never ordered it. It’s a shambles. There could be a tremendous amount of wastage if people are sent vaccines that they haven’t requested.”
    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/1020/1224257057705.html


    So there we have it ...our glorious HSE ...unable to organise a piss-up in a brewery.

    Anyone know what the consequences are of getting injected with spoiled vaccine?


«1

Comments

  • #2
    spadder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 985 ✭✭✭spadder


    Why does this not suprise me, I'm sure it has to be kept chilled for a reason.


  • #3
    jumpguy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,962 ✭✭✭jumpguy


    The consequences are that the vaccine might not work. It'd only be harmful if there was any other chemicals.

    As far as I know...the vaccine doesn't have to kept cool, only in long-term storage.

    EDIT: Nevermind, just read that report. That's pretty...well...it could only happen in Ireland. That's infuriating. I'd call up the HSE if I were you and notify them of this, if you're sure the van wasn't refigerated.


  • #4
    peasant
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,789 ✭✭✭✭peasant


    Recommended procedure following a break in the Cold Chain (2)
    •
    Any vaccine not stored between 2-8C is no longer a licensed product
    •
    Do not use these vaccines and return to the National Cold Chain Delivery Service

    best case scenario it's just money out the window


  • #5
    Wertz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,909 ✭✭✭✭Wertz


    peasant wrote: »
    best case scenario it's just money out the window

    They should add that as a motto under the HSE branding logo. Like a method statement of sorts.

    The way it's looking we'd probably be better off taking our chances with the damn virus.


  • #6
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    It's crazy. Nothing that the HSE does surprises me anymore.


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  • #7
    mawk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,737 ✭✭✭mawk


    i successfully organised a pissup for my 21st in the fransiscan well brewery.

    Maybe i should take over running the hse?


  • #8
    Elessar
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,260 ✭✭✭Elessar


    I think you should report this to one of the papers, I'm sure they would run a story on it.

    I'm concerned the vaccine I get now will be effectively useless.


  • #9
    phasers
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,159 ✭✭✭✭phasers


    "Right lads, I don't know the set up of this place but I assume it's BYOB"


  • #10
    stepbar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,123 ✭✭✭stepbar


    Geez, are these guys so incompetent that they can't even organise a company with chiller equipment to deliver the vaccines? :rolleyes: or even work off the correct list? :rolleyes:

    It beggers belief.


  • #11
    peasant
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,789 ✭✭✭✭peasant


    Wertz wrote: »
    They should add that as a motto under the HSE branding logo. Like a method statement of sorts.


    done :D


    (points at sig)


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  • #12
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    Harneys
    Stupid
    Executives!

    Nuff' said!


  • #13
    Odysseus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,752 ✭✭✭Odysseus


    Biggins wrote: »
    Harneys
    Stupid
    Executives!

    Nuff' said!

    I hope you remember to tell them that the next time you require any form of medical,psychiatric/psychological treatment. While the HSE needs be better organised, these type of threads tar all staff including front line staff with the same brush.

    I am suprised I even bothered to read this one, as most of the threads I read here tell me that I do nothing for my wages or pension, or the only work I'm interested in or get right is claming expensives.


  • #14
    peasant
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,789 ✭✭✭✭peasant


    Odysseus wrote: »
    I am suprised I even bothered to read this one, as most of the threads I read here tell me that I do nothing for my wages or pension, or the only work I'm interested in or get right is claming expensives.

    Maybe you can tell us then if this vaccine is supposed to be kept chilled or not?

    Am I getting all worked up about nothing?


  • #15
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    Odysseus wrote: »
    I hope you remember to tell them that the next time you require any form of medical,psychiatric/psychological treatment. While the HSE needs be better organised, these type of threads tar all staff including front line staff with the same brush.

    I am suprised I even bothered to read this one, as most of the threads I read here tell me that I do nothing for my wages or pension, or the only work I'm interested in or get right is claming expensives.

    For the record, I have been fighting/tackling/arguing with them DIRECTLY for the last two years.
    On TV, radio, in the newspapers, across office desks and they still are so far out of touch and have their heads stuck up their own backsides, they make Laurel and Hardy look like brain-boxes!


  • #16
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    peasant wrote: »
    Maybe you can tell us then if this vaccine is supposed to be kept chilled or not?

    Am I getting all worked up about nothing?

    Most vaccines are supposed to be kept chilled within a tight degree range of temperatures.
    This even includes the basic ones they inoculate children with like the MMR, etc

    Vaccines themselves are a live weaker strain of the danger that is out there that could do more serious damage.
    Keeping them chilled stops further cellular growth and division within the object they reside in temp-wise.


  • #17
    Odysseus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,752 ✭✭✭Odysseus


    peasant wrote: »
    Maybe you can tell us then if this vaccine is supposed to be kept chilled or not?

    Am I getting all worked up about nothing?

    I am psychotherapist so its outside my field, however, my understanding is that the vaccine is in a powder form, water is added prior to use. So I cannot think of any reason why it would need to be kept chilled, however, I am open to correction.


  • #18
    jumpguy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,962 ✭✭✭jumpguy


    peasant wrote: »
    Maybe you can tell us then if this vaccine is supposed to be kept chilled or not?

    Am I getting all worked up about nothing?
    No, you're not. Done abit of research and the vaccines are meant to be stored between 2 and 8 degrees and then warmed up to room temperature before administration. I dunno what you saw, but are you sure they were uncooled? Did you actually see it? Were the vaccines not in a special box or anything?


  • #19
    wixfjord
    Site Banned Posts: 5,346 ✭✭✭wixfjord


    Odysseus wrote: »
    I am psychotherapist so its outside my field, however, my understanding is that the vaccine is in a powder form, water is added prior to use. So I cannot think of any reason why it would need to be kept chilled, however, I am open to correction.

    Nah thats cupa soup your thinking of.


  • #20
    Odysseus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,752 ✭✭✭Odysseus


    Biggins wrote: »
    For the record, I have been fighting/tackling/arguing with them DIRECTLY for the last two years.
    On TV, radio, in the newspapers, across office desks and they still are so far out of touch and have their heads stuck up their own backsides, they make Laurel and Hardy look like brain-boxes!


    Yes I am somewhat aware of the work you have been involved in, and I can understant the type of walls you must have been hitting, however, as I said you cannot tar us all with the same brush. If we are all idiots it will must sense for you not to attend a hospital for any form or treatment, as your statment implies all HSE staff are "stupid" and I personally would not seek treatment from a professional I deemed to be so afflicted.


  • #21
    opinion guy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,000 ✭✭✭✭opinion guy


    Odysseus wrote: »
    I hope you remember to tell them that the next time you require any form of medical,psychiatric/psychological treatment. While the HSE needs be better organised, these type of threads tar all staff including front line staff with the same brush.

    I am suprised I even bothered to read this one, as most of the threads I read here tell me that I do nothing for my wages or pension, or the only work I'm interested in or get right is claming expensives.

    Odysseus I direct you to my previous rant

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=62746807&postcount=78


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  • #22
    Sofiztikated
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,995 ✭✭✭Sofiztikated


    I'm flumuxed. Seriously. How can a large medical organisation make such a ****up as this!?!

    I, in no way blame the delivery guy, he's just doing what he was told, which seems to be a case of

    "Here, take this, bring it here, here, here, and for good measure, there, there and if they want some, there."

    It'd take some kind of special to think, "Em, does this medical **** have to be kept cold? Nah, just **** it in the outbox, let the delivery guys worry about it"

    Sure, why didn't they just post the damn thing out.

    Has anybody checked to see if you can get the stuff on eBay? Surely a 4th rate vendor would be able to organise postage over.


  • #23
    peasant
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,789 ✭✭✭✭peasant


    jumpguy wrote: »
    No, you're not. Done abit of research and the vaccines are meant to be stored between 2 and 8 degrees and then warmed up to room temperature before administration. I dunno what you saw, but are you sure they were uncooled? Did you actually see it? Were the vaccines not in a special box or anything?

    What I did see in the van was a few pink-ish boxes (looked like styrofoam). While they would insulate their contents somewhat, your man had been driving them around all day in a normal van that definetly isn't cooled.
    He was also doing normal shipments besides the vaccine delivery (that's how I got to chat to him in the first place, he was delivering something)
    Furthermore the local depot (where the vaccine may have been stored overnight) does to my knowledge not have a coldroom either.

    having said that ...the vaxine is a compound and needs to be mixed before it gets administered ...maybe the need to keep it cool before mixing isn't that high?
    http://www.immunisation.ie/en/Downloads/PDFFile_16219_en.pdf


  • #24
    Odysseus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,752 ✭✭✭Odysseus


    jumpguy wrote: »
    No, you're not. Done abit of research and the vaccines are meant to be stored between 2 and 8 degrees and then warmed up to room temperature before administration. I dunno what you saw, but are you sure they were uncooled? Did you actually see it? Were the vaccines not in a special box or anything?

    Out of interest have you a reference for that, I can't understant the temp thing for a powder vaccine.


  • #25
    Odysseus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,752 ✭✭✭Odysseus


    wixfjord wrote: »
    Nah thats cupa soup your thinking of.

    Lots of drugs including amps of heroin come in that format, without croutons of course.


  • #26
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    Odysseus wrote: »
    ...as your statement implies all HSE staff are "stupid"

    Nope - far from it, just Harneys top management executives.

    Harneys
    Stupid (or Stubborn)
    EXECUTIVES


  • #27
    Euro_Kraut
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,957 ✭✭✭Euro_Kraut


    Why would a Doctor accept the vaccine is it was not suitable to administer? Surely they have a responsibility to ensure that they give patients correct immunizations. I am not sure we are getting the full story here.


  • #28
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    Odysseus wrote: »
    ...I can't understand the temp thing for a powder vaccine.

    A vaccine can come in a bacterial powder weaker safer form.
    If its the powder form the OP is pertaining to, it can be just mixed with distilled clean water before application.


  • #29
    peasant
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,789 ✭✭✭✭peasant


    Euro_Kraut wrote: »
    Why would a Doctor accept the vaccine is it was not suitable to administer? Surely they have a responsibility to ensure that they give patients correct immunizations. I am not sure we are getting the full story here.

    I for one would be quite happy if someone with knowledge and authority on the subject could come on here and tell us that despite all the talk of "cold chain" and "2 - 8 deg C" it is safe to distribute this particular vaxine unchilled.

    I might even change my sig back :D

    But until then I can only tell you what I saw and was told.


  • #30
    Odysseus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,752 ✭✭✭Odysseus


    But now your qualifying your previous statement. Look I understand you point [I think] but the way the media is portarying the HSE at the moment is in my opinion resulting in the general public viewing us all as lazy, greedy and incompetent. I take offense to that, I came accross the thread as I was taking a break from doing some work related research on a Friday night. Not looking for any medals here, but just because I have various degrees and 1000s of hours clinical experience it doesn't mean I don't that to keep my study up. I know I'm not the only HSE member who is doing this, so that takes the lazyness out of the equation.

    I was fully aware of the mismangement of the HSE well within my own service inanyway and I think the public should be made aware of it, and staff should be accountable for their roles. However, what I see is a general manipulation of the media that only shows the failures in the system, resulting in the general ill feeling of the public that I metioned above. I may be a member of the HSE and in one sense I am fully in control of how I condut my professional role on a individual basis, but I have tried on alot of occassions to try and change certain practices with my role, and I am severely limited by the organisation on that. To the extent that I no longer offer opinions on how to make the service better, I merely try to offer the best service I can to each patient on a individual basis.

    There is a big differece better the HSE organisation and the HSE staff member and this is something that I think is being lost here.


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  • #31
    Odysseus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,752 ✭✭✭Odysseus


    Biggins wrote: »
    A vaccine can come in a bacterial powder weaker safer form.
    If its the powder form the OP is pertaining to, it can be just mixed with distilled clean water before application.

    That what I have been saying, but if it is required to be reconstituted I can't understand the need for it to be kept at a certain temp, once it is reconstituted yes I understand that and that why it has to be used within one hour, if you get my point.


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