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bid nip on ebay? anyone familiar?

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  • 15-10-2009 11:06pm
    #1
    beaushalloe
    Closed Accounts Posts: 419 ✭✭


    has anyone had esperience with a site like www.bidnip.com who will do automatic bidding for you in the last few seconds of a auction?


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    #2
    OutlawPete
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,689 ✭✭✭✭OutlawPete


    beaushalloe wrote: »
    has anyone had esperience with a site like www.bidnip.com who will do automatic bidding for you in the last few seconds of a auction?

    I use Gixen.com with no problems. Always win when I use it. Never undestand anyone who bids before the last ten seconds - why show your hand early, you only give people the time to think about bettering your best offer.

    Also, if you wait it's also easier to stick to your own set limit and not get carried away with the thrill of the auction.

    However, I have heard a rumour that Ebay will be implementing a system where 5 minutues is added to an auction after every bid to combat this :mad:


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    #3
    Bluetonic
    Registered Users Posts: 7,588 ✭✭✭Bluetonic


    Nico22 wrote: »
    I use Gixen.comNever undestand anyone who bids before the last ten seconds - why show your hand early, you only give people the time to think about bettering your best offer.
    Except the current bid might not be the bet offer. You can do all the thinking you like but you never know if your bid is going to be better than the current best offer.


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    #4
    OutlawPete
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,689 ✭✭✭✭OutlawPete


    Bluetonic wrote: »
    Except the current bid might not be the bet offer. You can do all the thinking you like but you never know if your bid is going to be better than the current best offer.

    Course you never know - that's stating the obvious.

    My point is that if you leave it to a sniper (presuming the bid goes through sucessfully in time for someone not to see your bid and have time to react) you rule out the possibility of someone incereasing in resposnse to your bid.

    When I started out buying on Ebay I often bid with ten minutes to and then nothing happens till 7 minutes to go and they increase their bid. Then I'd rebid with two minutes and someone would bid with 30 seconds left etc etc.

    Now, the first thing about this is that when there is only 30 seconds left in an auction you (meaning some people - sometimes including me and sometimes not) don't think straight. Your desire for the item and the thrill of the auction can sometimes lead you bid more than you should, or indeed, more than the item may be worth.

    The second thing is showing your hand. There is zero point in bidding high early as you are just advertising the fact that you want the item - it makes no sense to me whatsoever and I have heard all the foolish arguments on this many times.

    Chances are that if you bid 200 euro for an Samsung S8000 tonight with five minutes to go then somone will come back at you with a higher offer.

    I realise that one guy placing a high bid shows nothing but it is seldom the case that their is only one rival bidder and even if there was - last five seconds bids are then even better as less people means you'll most likely get a bargain - not so if just one bidder sees you matching their high offer. Now they have time to think and that does matter despite what you say.

    If you decide the maximum amount that you want to spend and then set that as a snipe bid with 7 seconds to go then you giving yourself the best chance of .. 1. Winning the item & .. 2. Getting it at the price (or lower) than you feel it's worth.

    Now here is the clincher - I wish Ebay would somehow be able to stop this from happening and if they implement these now 5 minute add on's untill all bids stop - I'll be happy.

    Why? Cause I sell on Ebay and I know fine well that with people bidding againist each other like this - it's just what you want. I know that people are stupid enough to be influenced by each others high bids and then come back with higher bids themselves.

    The reason being that some people are just too lazy to do product research. I have sold items on Ebay fpr 50% more than they cost in the shops for this reason alone.

    As a buyer I always use Gixen (or similar) and I have had emails from people after auctions that I won saying 'You won that well, if you'd placed that bid ten seconds earlier I was gonna bid higher' etc etc. Makes no sense for people to be like that but they are.

    So with my Seller hat on I say ban these sites but with my Buyer hat on I say use them for every single auction. It doesn't make one tiny bit of sense not to.


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    #5
    rubadub
    Registered Users Posts: 32,373 ✭✭✭✭rubadub


    Nico22 wrote: »
    However, I have heard a rumour that Ebay will be implementing a system where 5 minutues is added to an auction after every bid to combat this :mad:
    Not sure if they could do this, many want auctions to end on time, like concert tickets. They might put in an option for sellers though. There is no rational reason not to snipe, other than putting your foot in the door to stop an auction easily being pulled (but sellers have many tricks to do that anyway).

    Here was my take on sniping.
    rubadub wrote: »
    I simply avoid bidding wars, I bid in the closing moments so nobody has time to enter a counter bid when they are outbid. There is no real way to know how much I have truely saved on an individual auction, but if you know how to read auction histories you can see what typically happens. People get caught up in bidding wars.

    How I figure I have saved is by checking out completed listings- another little known ebay tool.

    If you do a search you can go to advanced and select "completed listings" this shows all the auctions for the item you want that were sold in the last month. Now you can see "the going rate", especially for high volume items, such as memory cards. You might see that the going average is €50, while many may go for €40, some €60. So if you win your auction for €40 you know you got a better than average deal.

    Many people will not use ebay properly at all, they do not realise it is proxy bidding, they think the bid they put in will appear right away and must pay it. Some do realise it is proxy but STILL do not use it right, they do not put in their TRUE maximum.

    Say you start a auction for a new bike, starting bid must be €50, the bikes shop value is €500. The ONLY reason I would bid at this stage is to stop you cancelling the auction. If there are no bids you can cancel at any time.

    So I do not bid my max, but I do it with good reason. I bid €100 and you now cannot (easily) cancel the auction. My true max is say approx €400. Instead of bidding €50 I might go €100, for a good reason too.

    I bid €100, but the current price is €50. Now another bidder comes along and typically will bid €55, not his true max, you can see this in many histories, though harder these days. Now he is instantly outbid as I am €100. He goes up in increments, loves the buzz of not knowing. Then he hits €100, I still outbid him. Now he might go €105 and be the highest bidder, and is delighted.

    If I left it at an opening bid of €50, and he scored at €55, I figure he is now more likely to put his TRUE max in, as the bid is very low and he has not gotten any fun out of the auction, and sees he is likely to be outbid. But going to €105 he thinks he is really in a good bidding war, and is winning.

    If I go €110, he will likely go €115, or higher. So I leave it. Most will go check on the auction to see what is happening. It may be days from finishing.

    Now I go in and bid in the last few seconds, I bid €405 (not €400) in the last few seconds. Now he has NO TIME to react with a counter bid.

    Many people put round figures in too, that is why I would pick €405, not €400. It is more likely somebodys max is €400, and if they had time they would say, "ah, 400 was my max, but I will go the extra tenner", but they have no time.

    This bidding is called sniping, and ebay are against it since they lose out on profits, because the buyer ends up getting it cheaper.

    Some do not think it is fair, but only those people who have used ebay incorrectly! it is stated in ebays rules/guidelines, enter your max, YOUR TRUE MAX.

    If you get pissed off because you got sniped on an item at 405, when your bid was 400, then you cannot complain about anything, if you really were willing to "go the extra tenner", then why not do it from the start.

    I have seen powersellers selling 10 identical items, most starting at €40, they also had 5 of the exact same items as buyitnow for €50. Yet I have seen people get caught up in bidding wars and ended up paying €60!

    I get sniped all the time myself too, you will be outbid by a small increment, say €5, but that does not mean if you went €10 more that you would have got it for that, you do not know the other guys true maximum, it could be €100 more. If I did have time I might throw the extra tenner on and lose, this forces the other sniper to pay more. Ebay & the seller win, the bidder loses out.


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    #6
    jor el
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,713 ✭✭✭✭jor el


    Nico22 wrote: »
    However, I have heard a rumour that Ebay will be implementing a system where 5 minutues is added to an auction after every bid to combat this :mad:

    That's a completely different kind of auction, and is diametrically opposed to how eBay operates. It's called a bidding fee scheme, and it's virtually impossible to get a bargain out of it. It's also impossible to know when an auction will end, or how much it will cost you in "fees" before you win (if you win).

    There are lots of those types of auction sites in existence already, and they are nothing short scams. The auction site itself sells all the goods, not individual sellers, which is quite a departure from how eBay operates. This would be impossible for eBay to change to, but they may well be looking at setting one up to run along side their actual auction site, but I'd doubt it.


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    #7
    Gang of Gin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 433 ✭✭Gang of Gin


    Bluetonic wrote: »
    Except the current bid might not be the bet offer. You can do all the thinking you like but you never know if your bid is going to be better than the current best offer.


    Very true. If someone wants to really have something, hefty bidding generally wins out.


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    #8
    rubadub
    Registered Users Posts: 32,373 ✭✭✭✭rubadub


    jor el wrote: »
    That's a completely different kind of auction, and is diametrically opposed to how eBay operates. It's called a bidding fee scheme.
    He is just talking about 5mins being added, I presume they mean if a bid goes on in the last few mins it gets extended. In the bidding fee scam scheme you have to pay for your bids. Ebay do not charge you to put on a bid, so it is not the same scam. It is in ebays interest to have it since it creates & extends bidding wars, so their % on the final price increases too.

    Gang of Gin wrote: »
    Very true. If someone wants to really have something, hefty bidding generally wins out.
    If somebody REALLY wants something they should enter the maximum price they are willing to pay, end of story, and there is NO rational reason to put this on before the last few seconds. People simply do not know how ebay works and think if they bid say €10,000 then that is what they will pay if they win, but this is not the case, it is a automatic proxy bid system. If you would really be willing to pay €10,001, then simply bid that amount, no point whinging later on, you already said 10,000 was your max. Also in these cases where people think they were beaten by "just €1", they might not have, the guy you were up against might have a max bid of €20,000 but as yours was €10,000 he only has to pay €10,001. But feck all people can get their head around that. If you got the chance you might have stuck on a few more bids, maybe bumping it up to €10,200, but the guy with the €20,000 bid now is still the winner but must pay €10,200, whereas if he sniped himself you would never have gotten the chance to bid more than €10,000.

    Sniping also protects you from the seller himself, if he does choose to have a 5 min extention (if it does get offered in the future), then he can have a mate bid an extra euro to try and squeeze more out of you. This is called shilling.


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    #9
    OutlawPete
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,689 ✭✭✭✭OutlawPete


    rubadub wrote: »
    Here was my take on sniping.

    You said it much better than me :D

    It always amazes me to see people place a bid, then another .. they wait (for an email off Ebay I presume) and then bid some more. Poker players they are not.

    Sometimes I will place a low bid on something .. especially on Ebay.ie as opposed to the UK as there are less bidders. The reason being that I like to give the bidder the false sense of security that someone only wanted to bid for say half of what I really am going to put in my snipe.

    Think your right also about making any new 'auto-added-minutes' to auction endings an option of sellers rather than the rule.

    Can see the advantage for sellers if there were 'Going Once, Going Twice' auction endings :)


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    #10
    OutlawPete
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,689 ✭✭✭✭OutlawPete


    Gang of Gin wrote: »
    Very true. If someone wants to really have something, hefty bidding generally wins out.

    I love bidders like you. Helps me pay my Ebay fees.


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    #11
    jor el
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,713 ✭✭✭✭jor el


    rubadub wrote: »
    He is just talking about 5mins being added, I presume they mean if a bid goes on in the last few mins it gets extended. In the bidding fee scam scheme you have to pay for your bids. Ebay do not charge you to put on a bid, so it is not the same scam. It is in ebays interest to have it since it creates & extends bidding wars, so their % on the final price increases too.

    The bidding fee schemes also add time, every time a bid is placed, which means it's impossible to tell when an auction will end. If eBay do go that way, but without charging for the bids, then I'd stop using it. eBay is already very close to being sh*t, and that would push it way over. If it was an optional add on, I'd simply avoid those auctions. It certainly wouldn't work on time sensitive items, like tickets, and even for something you really want (maybe for a present) you couldn't be sure the auction would even end in time.

    Ever since eBay destroyed the feedback system, they've probably been busy trying to find some other way to f*ck it all up.


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    #12
    OutlawPete
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,689 ✭✭✭✭OutlawPete


    jor el wrote: »
    Ever since eBay destroyed the feedback system, they've probably been busy trying to find some other way to f*ck it all up.

    Yeah, buyers just buy stuff now and decide afterwards if they want it or not.


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    #13
    rubadub
    Registered Users Posts: 32,373 ✭✭✭✭rubadub


    jor el wrote: »
    The bidding fee schemes also add time, every time a bid is placed, which means it's impossible to tell when an auction will end.
    Yes, I was just trying to distinguish them from those scams, which are not really auctions at all, they are gambling systems under the guise of an auction to fool the idiots and to circumvent gambling laws.
    jor el wrote: »
    If it was an optional add on, I'd simply avoid those auctions. It certainly wouldn't work on time sensitive items, like tickets, and even for something you really want (maybe for a present) you couldn't be sure the auction would even end in time.
    Yes, I already mentioned the tickets issue, this is why I think it would be an option. I can imagine them doing something sly too, rather than charge extra for a normal auction they might offer a discount for a "extended time" auction (which is in effect charging more for a normal auction, but again would fool the fools). I expect they are losing a fortune due to sniping, there is no real way of telling, unless like me you look at average prices of completed listings and try and figure it out.

    Like I said ebay would make more fees and the seller would see it as a benefit too. But like yourself I would try to avoid such auctions.


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    #14
    jor el
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,713 ✭✭✭✭jor el


    rubadub wrote: »
    I can imagine them doing something sly too, rather than charge extra for a normal auction they might offer a discount for a "extended time" auction (which is in effect charging more for a normal auction, but again would fool the fools).

    The cynic in me thinks that there would be site-wide price increases first, then a discount for extended-time auctions. Maybe overly harsh on my part, but I don't have any faith in eBay. One thing you can always count on, is they will do anything to maximise their own profit, and this would certainly do that.


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