Political Correctness - Preventing Prejudice or Stifling Free Speech?

brummytom wrote: »

Question's in the title, people.

So some Irish prisoners have been getting offended by 'anti-Irish jokes' published in a prison magazine - is it harmless fun or racism?

My brother was telling me today, with a horrified voice, that his Art teacher called a lad in the class a "retard". She did, afterwards, apologise unreservedly, but even so, my brother still found it disgusting. Now just 20 years ago, comments like this would have been commonplace in schools, and an eyelid wouldn't have been batted. Now it would be a disciplinary offence.

I wouldn't have any problem with people taking a 'pop' at my nationality or religion, but among some groups it would cause outrage.
So have we (I realise I'm not in the same country as most of you, so I'll extend the question to Western society in general) progressed as a society, and come some way to eradicating mindless prejudice; or are people just too sensitive about what is said?

In fairness, I think the majority know the answer to this one.

Deleted User wrote: »

Some people need to know the difference between telling a joke and being racist.

True ... and the same goes for homophobic / misogynistic / etc.

It's all about context and intent. Unfortunately, it can sometimes be difficult enough to judge intent, especially on a medium like the internet.

One of my oldest friends is "bi, leaning towards gay" (his definition, not mine). I don't give a toss, tbh. I've never believed that who one jumps into bed with (assuming they're of age and willing) defines in any way whether you are a decent person or not.

That doesn't stop me slagging the hole off him though (that's an "L", folks :P) and believe me he gives as good as he gets, and we enjoy our fencing matches enormously.

I've been pulled up for it on a couple of occasions in the pub by bystanders (eavesdroppers, really) who knew neither of us and had nothing to do with us, much to both his and my amusement.

Now THAT'S political correctness gone mad!

tallaght01 wrote: »

In my experience, the only people who complain about "political correctness" are the people who think we all want to hear them "telling it like it is" about various races/ethnic groups of people.

There's a lot of truth in that, tallaght, but on the other hand there are a small minority out there who seem to have adopted political correctness as a religion, and taken it to an extreme that does way more harm than good.

Unfortunately, they often don't really have the ability or intelligence to differentiate between what really needs to be tackled, and what is truly irrelevant; they're just on the bandwagon ... remember the borough council in London a few years back that wanted manholes re-named as "personholes", for example?

The ultra-PCers like that really do a lot of damage to those who are genuinely and intelligently trying to combat attitutes of intolerance and, unfortunately, even at times hatred in society, imho.

Derogatory terms and offensive reference are known as such because that is their origin. And because they were (originally) derogatory and offensive, they can be used in a humorous way. ie, if 'n**ger' wasn't derogatory, it'd have no impact by being used in a humorous way. Thus the basis of PC aversion is the fact that the content of offensiveness is usually originated from terminology that is, independent of context, definitely derogatory. So it becomes an issue of interpretation. If I use the word 'n**ger' and honestly mean no harm or aggression with it, there will be listeners who take offense because they don't understand the context within which it's being used. (ie bystanders or people who simply don't catch the references or just don't get the joke)

ie, you take an offensive word, such as n**ger. You intend to use it in a humorous way. People who 'get' the joke will find it funny and will understand that there's no racial prejudice intended. But those that don't find the joke funny, because they don't 'get' it, will be offended simply because of the use of the word n**ger in a context which they haven't had the privilege of appreciating.

starbelgrade wrote: »

Yep - but who's gonna go down & clean them out?!!!

My mother's comment was priceless. When she heard that story on the tv, she rolled her eyes to heaven and said "Why shouldn't they be called manholes? Sure no woman would be stupid enough to want to go down them anyway!"

sparky360 wrote: »

Niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiice

Well, I gave ye plenty of pun material, slow enough ye were, tbh.

Cianos wrote: »

.

There are a few words which it is very hard to use without sounding derogatory though, they just have too much history.

Cianos wrote: »

My point is though that it always depends on context, and the usage in any case is by nature only possible by the fact that those words are originally offensive. So really the words are more so symbols of hatred rather than hatred itself.

I agree with you about the context / intent issue, see my own post above (#35).

I'm simply saying that there are a few words which have become so deeply intertwined with the hatred they symbolise (or once symbolised) that they are very hard to disassociate from it, and many people will react on an almost subconscious level to them, rather than stopping to consciously analyse the context in which they are used, or with what intent.

Political correctness in general is fine, but there are times when it's taken too far.

I know a guy who got in trouble in work because when a colleague asked him if he was going out for lunch, he replied saying "No, I brought a few sambos in to eat."

That was stifling of free speech or "political correctness gone mad" if you will.

asdasd wrote: »

Whats often missed about Pee Cee is that it is a form of cultural imperialism. If this guy meant a sandwich thats what he meant. Thats what most Irish people would think. The other meaning if from British imperialist history so why should we give a sh*te.

I think that the word originated in the US and then spread around the globe. An American brother-in-law of mine was open-mouthed, and couldn't believe it when he spotted a sandwich delivery van in Tralee a few years ago, with "Sambos" painted on it.:eek:

Cianos wrote: »

Derogatory terms and offensive reference are known as such because that is their origin. And because they were (originally) derogatory and offensive, they can be used in a humorous way. ie, if 'n**ger' wasn't derogatory, it'd have no impact by being used in a humorous way. Thus the basis of PC aversion is the fact that the content of offensiveness is usually originated from terminology that is, independent of context, definitely derogatory. So it becomes an issue of interpretation. If I use the word 'n**ger' and honestly mean no harm or aggression with it, there will be listeners who take offense because they don't understand the context within which it's being used. (ie bystanders or people who simply don't catch the references or just don't get the joke)

ie, you take an offensive word, such as n**ger. You intend to use it in a humorous way. People who 'get' the joke will find it funny and will understand that there's no racial prejudice intended. But those that don't find the joke funny, because they don't 'get' it, will be offended simply because of the use of the word n**ger in a context which they haven't had the privilege of appreciating.

The song 'Gold Digger' written & sung by Kanye West (a black man) has the word N**ger throughout the song YET Irish radio stations feel they have to edit the song to protect their listeners ears. THAT is political correctness gone mad. If Kanye west had a problem with the word N**ger, I dount he would have used it in his song.