Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread [mod warning #11145, #32140 (see OP)]

el rabitos · 12-10-2009 11:57PM

Mr Alan wrote: »

Fair enough, lets get rid of Stevie & Fernando in the summer so.

clearly its purslows job to balance the teams competitiveness with the clubs financial needs, and good luck to him.

its rafa's job to make the most of what he's got to work with, that's his job, he's been doing a very fine job so far with the resources he's had to work with.

you seem to think that the yanks have some vendetta against the club, and tbh, its boring and lazy posting to be reading it every second or third page.

its in their best interest to run the club as best as possible, and putting aside how they got the club, their piss-poor media handling skills and how they've handled their staff at times, they way they've pushed the club forward on the marketing side has to be acknowledged.

selling 2 pillars of the clubs marketing side (torres & stevie) would do them or the club no good. it doesnt take a lot of thought to come to this conclusion. i dont think these guys are quite the idiots some people would like to convince us.

el rabitos · 13-10-2009 12:00AM

super-rush wrote: »

No its our club. Without the people there would be no club. They are running it on our behalf, and if we feel its no being run properly the we will/should complain.

oh yeah, they're just the custodians. my bad

Mr Alan · 13-10-2009 12:06AM

el rabitos wrote: »

clearly its purslows job to balance the teams competitiveness with the clubs financial needs, and good luck to him.

its rafa's job to make the most of what he's got to work with, that's his job, he's been doing a very fine job so far with the resources he's had to work with.

i'd add in a third role here.

our american owners; its their job to provide the financial support needed for our manager to bring the club forward.

are they doing that? no they are not.

they've done nothing but lie & lie & lie all the while since their arrival.

moaning about them & to suggest they MAY try & sell a player if they recd a good offer for him is not beyond the pale, in fact, its quite reasonable.

personally the very fact that over the last couple of weeks in this thread many Liverpool fans have tried to excuse their appalling conduct since they've come to the club, would leave me to believe its something that should be discussed more.

here's a nice quote from Tom Hicks;

Tom Hicks wrote:

"This is not a takeover like the Glazer deal at Manchester United. There is no debt involved, and we believe that as custodians of this wonderful, storied club we have a duty of care to the traditions and legacies of Liverpool."

now, we are around £400m pound in debt without work even commencing on the stadium.

hers another nice quote from Hicks;

"When I was in the leverage buy-out business we bought Weetabix and we leveraged it up to make our return. You could say that anyone eating Weetabix was paying for our purchase of Weetabix. It was just business. It is the same for Liverpool."

Tusky · 13-10-2009 12:10AM

Melion wrote: »

People defending the yanks, oh lord. What has this thread and irish reds in general come to?

Noone is really defending the Yanks. I want them out as much as the next person - but theres no point getting wound up about them doing something that they have no history of doing at Liverpool. As far as I know, they have never attempted to force Rafas hand in regards to transfers. They are not to blame for absolutely everything negative that happens surrounding the club. There were plenty of problems before they arrived lets not forget.

el rabitos · 13-10-2009 12:20AM

Mr Alan wrote: »

i'd add in a third role here.

our american owners; its their job to provide the financial support needed for our manager to bring the club forward.

are they doing that? no they are not.

they've done nothing but lie & lie & lie all the while since their arrival.

moaning about them & to suggest they MAY try & sell a player if they recd a good offer for him is not beyond the pale, in fact, its quite reasonable.

personally the very fact that over the last couple of weeks in this thread many Liverpool fans have tried to excuse their appalling conduct since they've come to the club, would leave me to believe its something that should be discussed more.

here's a nice quote from Tom Hicks;

now, we are around £400m pound in debt without work even commencing on the stadium.

hers another nice quote from Hicks;

whats with the quotes? who are you trying to convince here? we all know they lied. theres no prizes for being the last angry man, alan.

its their job to provide the financial support for where they expect the club to be.

deadhead13 · 13-10-2009 12:23AM

el rabitos wrote: »

clearly its purslows job to balance the teams competitiveness with the clubs financial needs, and good luck to him.

its rafa's job to make the most of what he's got to work with, that's his job, he's been doing a very fine job so far with the resources he's had to work with.

you seem to think that the yanks have some vendetta against the club, and tbh, its boring and lazy posting to be reading it every second or third page.

its in their best interest to run the club as best as possible, and putting aside how they got the club, their piss-poor media handling skills and how they've handled their staff at times, they way they've pushed the club forward on the marketing side has to be acknowledged.

selling 2 pillars of the clubs marketing side (torres & stevie) would do them or the club no good. it doesnt take a lot of thought to come to this conclusion. i dont think these guys are quite the idiots some people would like to convince us.

Any advance on the marketing side is more than negated by the fact that a 230 million euro debt is now being serviced by the club. It may be "in their best interest to run the club as best as possilbe" but I have seen no evidence that they are capable of doing so. In fact by all accounts, they again, are not even on speaking terms.

Mr Alan · 13-10-2009 12:24AM

do you think its a massive stretch to think they would force the sale of a player? especially not a marketable fella, or someone who was brought in for big money

they've hardly covered themselves in glory when it comes to replacing Alonso & Hypia.

people can moan all they want about what they "might" do, as well as what they have done (which has also been defended in some quarters in this thread by Liverpool "fans")

jesus_thats_gre · 13-10-2009 01:56AM

If you want to criticise something, stick to actual facts and leave the hyperbolecole to the newspapers. There is no doubting that the American lads are draging the club through the mud and lied throught their arses since they took over the club. Saying that, they haven't forced Rafa's hand in terms of players sales and any accusations to the contrary and simply baseless. So stick to the facts, regardless of who ye are discussing.

mayordenis · 13-10-2009 02:01AM

You know what - with all the arguments - any liverpool fan who has used the word yanks in a deregatory manner has shown themselves for who they are - I wish I could say what I really believe here but basically stop the "yank" bashing, have a go at them for being terrible owners but no need for the xenophobia.

mayordenis · 13-10-2009 02:04AM

Mr Alan wrote: »

do you think its a massive stretch to think they would force the sale of a player? especially not a marketable fella, or someone who was brought in for big money

they've hardly covered themselves in glory when it comes to replacing Alonso & Hypia.

people can moan all they want about what they "might" do, as well as what they have done (which has also been defended in some quarters in this thread by Liverpool "fans")

what you on about hey hardly covered themselves in glory???
man your way out of line.

xabi left for 30 in rafa's own words if Aqualani was fit here would of cost the same,
Hyypia left for first team footbal nothing else, for free, 2.5 million was spent on his replacement,
I hate what they are doing too the club almost as much as I hate lying.

Bandit12 · 13-10-2009 08:00AM

Dutch star: I love Liverpool

Author: Andrew Allen
Posted on:12 October 2009 - 13:25

Dutch international Dirk Kuyt has stressed how he is enjoying life on Merseyside with Liverpool despite the club’s poor start to the season. The striker, who played for his homeland in a friendly against the Socceroos in Australia this week, is expected to feature against Sunderland despite his long round-trip and hopes that the Reds can now focus on getting their title challenge back on track.

“I am a very happy person,” Kuyt told Fifa.com.

“I love the city of Liverpool, very nice, warm and respected people. I love Liverpool Football Club. Every day that I can be there, it makes me more than happy. I try to play as good and as long as possible for Liverpool.”

“To play in England is already unbelievable, when you look at all the supporters. If you play for Liverpool it is unbelievable and the supporters are an extra dimension. I have never seen such good supporters before I came to Anfield.

“I was used to playing at Feyenoord with a fantastic crowd, definitely the best in Holland, but when I came to Anfield it was another level. It really helps us and I'm sure it helps us when we are in difficult times, so the supporters are really important to us.”

Responding to suggestions that he may eventually return to Holland, Kuyt continued:

“I have just signed an extension of my Liverpool contract so I am more than happy. I am just trying to keep going (at Liverpool) for as long as possible, and we will see what the future brings. I will always have a special feeling for Feyenoord. It was, and still is a very important club for me, but at the moment I am very happy at Liverpool.”
http://www.sport.co.uk/news/Football/28301/Dutch_star_I_love_Liverpool.aspx

Jesus Wept · 13-10-2009 08:37AM

Sell Crouch, then buy Heskey, ffs?

Paper talk though:

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/football/view/103358/Rafa-to-rescue-Heskey/

Handsome Bob · 13-10-2009 08:40AM

Mr Alan wrote: »

people can moan all they want about what they "might" do, as well as what they have done (which has also been defended in some quarters in this thread by Liverpool "fans")

I'm getting tired of this attitude in this thread, if you refuse to toe the line with the majority your love for the club is questioned.

If you defend G&H you're not a fan.

If you criticise Rafa for spending £20m on a player who is out for 3 months, you are not a fan.

If you dare to question the quality of a player's performance you're not a fan.

If you happen to come across an article in The S*n, not only are you not a fan, but you are also given a condescending lecture about not knowing anything about Hillsborough. :rolleyes:

missingtime · 13-10-2009 09:30AM

LZ5by5 wrote: »

I'm getting tired of this attitude in this thread, if you refuse to toe the line with the majority your love for the club is questioned.

If you defend G&H you're not a fan.

If you criticise Rafa for spending £20m on a player who is out for 3 months, you are not a fan.

If you dare to question the quality of a player's performance you're not a fan.

If you happen to come across an article the page 3 girl in The S*n, not only are you not a fan, but you are also given a condescending lecture about not knowing anything about Hillsborough. :rolleyes:

He he he he he

Admitedly I should have spotted this earlier

Handsome Bob · 13-10-2009 09:35AM

missingtime wrote: »

I have to say, that is a pretty succint description of what happens in this thread day in day out.

I'm a fan of Rafa, there's no-one that I would rather see at the helm and win the PL than Rafa, but I'm not afraid to call a spade a spade. If he does something I don't agree with then I will air my opinions, that doesn't mean I'm against the man though.

NukaCola · 13-10-2009 09:39AM

LZ5by5 wrote: »

I'm getting tired of this attitude in this thread, if you refuse to toe the line with the majority your love for the club is questioned.

If you defend G&H you're not a fan.

If you criticise Rafa for spending £20m on a player who is out for 3 months, you are not a fan.

If you dare to question the quality of a player's performance you're not a fan.

If you happen to come across an article in The S*n, not only are you not a fan, but you are also given a condescending lecture about not knowing anything about Hillsborough. :rolleyes:

If you've done all the above then your defo not a fan

Handsome Bob · 13-10-2009 09:41AM

BumbleBee123 wrote: »

If you've done all the above then your defo not a fan

3 of them. :P I've never defended G&H, and in fairness The S*n incident was only done so I could draw attention to how much of an inept pundit Tony Cascarino is.

whatawaster · 13-10-2009 09:46AM

I have no time for our American owners, but:

- they have never as far as any of us know tried to force Rafa to sell a player. If they were in that business I suspect Torres would be at Man City now.
- I’m angry about us not having a transfer budget, but if the money has to go elsewhere, then reducing our debt is a good start. The owners have claimed hefty expenses, but have they taken Salaries, Fees or Dividends? Not as far as I can remember. The club’s debt is what it is, we can’t change the fact we have massive loans. Now I want them repaid. Much more than I want a new stadium, which is unbelievably low on my list of priorities. It’s a pretty good use of our profits to service that debt.

Let’s stick to criticising them for what they deserve criticism for:
- undermining the manager
- lying about various things – debt, stadium, transfer budgets.

NukaCola · 13-10-2009 09:55AM

Tusky wrote: »

There were plenty of problems before they arrived lets not forget.

We have Owners who dont actually ''own'' the Club.
I'd rather the problems before they arrived than the problems we have now.

Their lies are the worst of all. Do they think we are stupid?

It is a business to them but what their asking for the club is fantasy.
They bought the club on loans and want a ridiculous mark up price to sell despite putting nothing in the club.

whatawaster wrote: »

Let’s stick to criticising them for what they deserve criticism for:
- undermining the manager
- lying about various things – debt, stadium, transfer budgets.

Totally agree.

Boggles · 13-10-2009 09:57AM

whatawaster wrote: »

Why isn’t he judged by the same standards as Martin O’Neill?

Because he is paid considerably more than O'Neill.

Spud83 · 13-10-2009 10:02AM

whatawaster wrote: »

Why isn’t he judged by the same standards as Martin O’Neill?

Because O'Neill has only been in his job since 06, and took over a club who finished 16th the season before he took over rather than a club that finished fourth like Rafa.

whatawaster · 13-10-2009 10:02AM

Boggles wrote: »

Because he is paid considerably more than O'Neill.

But up until a year ago he was paid a lot less yet was still judged the same. His salary is never taken into consideration by those who I’m talking about who judge him – I mean pundits, journalists and fans.
In fact, you’re the only person who ever brings up his salary.

whatawaster · 13-10-2009 10:05AM

alanmurphy83 wrote: »

Because O'Neill has only been in his job since 06, and took over a club who finished 16th the season before he took over rather than a club that finished fourth like Rafa.

I think the gap from 4th to 1st is harder to bridge than the one from 16th (which let’s face it, is about the lowest Villa could possibly have finished with that squad). Especially when you spend that level of money.

Boggles · 13-10-2009 10:05AM

whatawaster wrote: »

But up until a year ago he was paid a lot less yet was still judged the same. His salary is never taken into consideration by those who I’m talking about who judge him – I mean pundits, journalists and fans.

You mean pundits, journalists and Fans you don't know how havn't heard from.

whatawaster wrote: »

In fact, you’re the only person who ever brings up his salary.

And Rightly so, if you get paid the top wedge your expected to perform to that level in your job.

Trapps been a prime example.

whatawaster · 13-10-2009 10:09AM

Boggles wrote: »

You mean pundits, journalists and Fans you don't know how havn't heard from.

And Rightly so, if you get paid the top wedge your expected to perform to that level in your job.

Trapps been a prime example.

I’d agree to an extent, but expected performance in a job is surely a function of many things: salary of course, resources given, working environment. His salary is top notch. His resources given have been decent (but not really enough to overtake clubs like Chelsea and United) and his working environment I’d argue has been poor.
You can’t simplify it by saying his salary his higher so he should be doing better than O’Neill.

O’Neill had to go from 16th to 6th – under far less pressure, with similar money to spend (and that kind of money means more lower down the table) and with a supportive chairman.

Spud83 · 13-10-2009 10:12AM

whatawaster wrote: »

I think the gap from 4th to 1st is harder to bridge than the one from 16th (which let’s face it, is about the lowest Villa could possibly have finished with that squad). Especially when you spend that level of money.

Oh I agree, but its still a reason why the two clubs/managers should not be compared. One was looking for a manager to win them the league, one was looking for a manager to get the away from relegation and then into Europe.

Boggles · 13-10-2009 10:15AM

whatawaster wrote: »

I’d agree to an extent, but expected performance in a job is surely a function of many things: salary of course, resources given, working environment. His salary is top notch.

He has been given the resources, he is also responsibilty for his working environment and so far has gotten his way, he has not been forced to sell anyone as far as I'm aware.

These sound as usual more like pale excuses than something hindering a top paid manager.

whatawaster wrote: »

O’Neill had to go from 16th to 6th – under far less pressure, with similar money to spend (and that kind of money means more lower down the table) and with a supportive chairman.

Sure how can the Yanks be any more supportive than given him a huge 5 year contract?

O'Neills Villa have impressed me alot more than Rafas Liverpool this season so far to be honest.

whatawaster · 13-10-2009 10:21AM

Boggles wrote: »

He has been given the resources, he is also responsibilty for his working environment and so far has gotten his way, he has not been forced to sell anyone as far as I'm aware.

These sound as usual more like pale excuses than something hindering a top paid manager.

Sure how can the Yanks be any more supportive than given him a huge 5 year contract?

O'Neills Villa have impressed me alot more than Rafas Liverpool this season so far to be honest.

He has been given resources:

- comparable to United (who have one of the greatest managers of all time) yet he’s murdered in the press for not overtaking them
- way less than Chelsea (who when he took over had already spent a fortune and had a much stronger squad) yet he’s murdered in the press for not overtaking them.

His bosses admitted that they lined up somebody to replace him. He’s have been well within his legal rights to rip up his contract and sue the owners. If money was all he cared about that’s what he could have done.

Impressing you over 7 or 8 games doesn’t really mean anything though, does it? I think Villa have been more impressive than United. Meaningless. They’ll finish behind both teams.

Boggles · 13-10-2009 10:27AM

whatawaster wrote: »

His bosses admitted that they lined up somebody to replace him. He’s have been well within his legal rights to rip up his contract and sue the owners. If money was all he cared about that’s what he could have done.

On what grounds? They were well within there rights to bring Casper the Friendly ghost to manage the club if they wanted as long as Rafas contract was terminated with compensation.

whatawaster wrote: »

Impressing you over 7 or 8 games doesn’t really mean anything though, does it? I think Villa have been more impressive than United. Meaningless. They’ll finish behind both teams.

Villa won't leap United if they win their game in hand though.

whatawaster · 13-10-2009 10:30AM

Boggles wrote: »

Villa won't leap United if they win their game in hand though.

There are 8 games gone in the season. I don’t care if Villa win their game in hand, frankly.

Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread [mod warning #11145, #32140 (see OP)]

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