Failure to stop for unmarked police vehicle

donvito99 · 05-10-2009 04:25PM

ivabiggon wrote: »

look if your a criminal intent on going out to commit a serious crime of kidnapping or hi jacking a loan female driver then stupidity in respect of blue light doesn't really come into it, also not everyone diving to and from work would have the phone number of the local station, and do you really think a gaurd on the other end of the public office phone would look into a reg check in the time you are being pursued, eh don't think so, pretty shaggged if you ask me the villian will stop you and be gone with either way,
should invest in some of those cars in s/ africa that burn the hijackers if they come near the car

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fDrzMGdYWZc

. This is a full stop. Use it.

source · 05-10-2009 04:58PM

ivabiggon wrote: »

look if your a criminal intent on going out to commit a serious crime of kidnapping or hi jacking a loan female driver then stupidity in respect of blue light doesn't really come into it, also not everyone diving to and from work would have the phone number of the local station, and do you really think a gaurd on the other end of the public office phone would look into a reg check in the time you are being pursued, eh don't think so, pretty shaggged if you ask me the villian will stop you and be gone with either way,
should invest in some of those cars in s/ africa that burn the hijackers if they come near the car

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fDrzMGdYWZc

They may not have time to do a reg check, but they will almost certainly know what cars are out, and who's in them, so will be able to tell from make and model if the unmarked car is legit or not.

Also if in fear dial 999, it's there for quick access to the emergency services, believing that you're about to be kidnapped by someone posing as a member of the gardai, would qualify as an emergency in my mind.

however having said that we're not living in Brazil!! Kidnapping while it does happen here in Ireland, is not very common. So as i said before, use common sense, if you see blue lights behind you, stop and find out who you're talking to, if the person does not produce a badge then you just push on the pedal under your right foot and away you go to your nearest Garda station.

meathstevie · 05-10-2009 09:22PM

Another angle on this one is that any member of the Garda Siochana or PSNI or a British police force can do whatever is legal, proportionate and necessary to firstly preserve life and second bring an offender to justice.

So if you're for example driving dangerously - and I mean realy endangering other people - and a local district detective car with two plainclothes officers observes you at it they will stop you by whatever means are deemed legal and justified at the time. This can include use of stingers or other techniques you might have seen or heard about.

Zambia · 05-10-2009 09:45PM

Unless your a prime target for a Tiger kidnapping and have blue lights appear behind you for no reason. Pull over and stop watching so much CSI.

%99.99999 of the time your life is not going to get that interesting

targus · 05-10-2009 09:56PM

There was an incident shown on Crimewatch UK last year thats reminds me of this thread.
A lorry driver with an expensive consignment noticed an unmarked 'Police' car pull up alongside him on a Motorway.
The vehicle had a blue light and siren and the lorry driver duly pulled over.
That was the last he saw of his lorry..!

The Big Red Button · 05-10-2009 10:07PM

I have to say, if I was driving on an empty road late at night, and if I wasn't speeding and hadn't anything wrong to the best of my knowledge, I'd be very reluctant to stop for an unmarked car. And I don't usually use a phone while driving ever, I'd be very reluctant to try to use one for the first time under stressful circumstances, let alone having to try to find out the phone number for the local station first!

I get what you're saying about how unlikely it is to be anything dodgy, but still I think I'd just keep driving (below the speed limit!) til I got to a populated area, or until a marked car arrived.

Hopefully I'll never be in that situation so it won't matter!

05-10-2009 10:23PM

Why do people think they are so important that criminals will target them using false un-marked Garda cars?

The only people who have tried this are the Provo's with their fake checkpoints and sad f**kers who do up thier cars to be like police, like the lad from Tallaght who was arrested recently.

The Big Red Button · 05-10-2009 11:29PM

It's not that I think I'm important. It's that I really don't often break any rules at all when driving, so it's very unlikely that I'd be pulled in by the Gardai (marked or unmarked.) And if I were, I'd rather be safe than sorry.

Seriously though, assuming I'd done nothing wrong, is there really that many reasons an unmarked Garda car would want me off the road, and these reasons couldn't wait til the next petrol station?!

Preset No.3 · 05-10-2009 11:58PM

nice guy always wrote: »

As I said make the call while driving to the station! Section 3 Road Traffic Act 2006 has an exemption covering use of mobile phones to call the Emergency Services.

NGA,

As a serving member I take your points on board.

However, I did have the situation a couple of years back where in my 3 week old new car, was driving home from work at 2am and for no other reason than boredom, a car did a u turn on the road and followed me. After a moment or 2, the headlights flashed left right, but no blue light. I kept driving into my estate and then a siren went off. So I had flashing headlights and a siren. Should I assume that me on my own in my new €60,000 car should pull over?? NO WAY, I'll take my chances in court.

For just over £100 I can buy a blue dash master on Ebay

source · 06-10-2009 11:48AM

Preset No.3 wrote: »

NGA,

As a serving member I take your points on board.

However, I did have the situation a couple of years back where in my 3 week old new car, was driving home from work at 2am and for no other reason than boredom, a car did a u turn on the road and followed me. After a moment or 2, the headlights flashed left right, but no blue light. I kept driving into my estate and then a siren went off. So I had flashing headlights and a siren. Should I assume that me on my own in my new €60,000 car should pull over?? NO WAY, I'll take my chances in court.

For just over £100 I can buy a blue dash master on Ebay

And when it followed you into your estate, did it stop and were the occupants Gardai? If not did you report this to the local Gardai?

bravestar · 06-10-2009 08:42PM

Firstly, If a Garda car tries to pull you over, just do it. Someone on this thread has already spoken about why people here are considering themselves important enough for serious criminals to target them with fake garda cars. Get over yourselves.

Secondly, I dont think public discussion on methods available and/or procedures for stopping vehicles should be discussed here.

Thirdly, if a vehicle is driving dangerously enough, whatever force necessary will be used to stop it. The force used will be in direct proportion to the threat to life/property the vehicle poses.

Lastly, if joe public rings me looking to get a reg check or confirm the reg of an unmarked vehicle, they will be told where to go. Why on earth would you give out the reg of an unmarked vehicle that could be being used for surveillance? My mind boggles at some of the reply's here

source · 06-10-2009 08:55PM

Surveillance have their own cars, i won't get into what they look like, unmarked Garda cars are usually pretty easy to spot, what with the bumper lights on all the newer models.

I have said to do it if someone feels they are really in danger from someone posing as a member i would never do a reg check for a member of the public, but if i got a call from a distraught member of the public, saying they had someone trying to pull them over i'd definately look into it. protecting the public, unless i'm mistaken is why we're in this job. If that means reassuring someone who doesn't realise that blue flashing lights means the Gardai and not the boogeymen then so be it.

The Big Red Button · 06-10-2009 09:01PM

bravestar wrote: »

If a vehicle is driving dangerously enough, whatever force necessary will be used to stop it. The force used will be in direct proportion to the threat to life/property the vehicle poses.

I completely accept your point in cases where a car is actually speeding/driving dangerously, but what about in a scenario like I mentioned earlier in the thread? If it's late at night on an empty road, I'm driving carefully within the speed limit, and an unmarked car suddenly puts on lights and sirens and tries to make me pull in, I would certainly continue driving at a safe speed until I reached somewhere with people. Chances are if it's the Gardai and they actually had some reason for stopping me, they'd surely send out a marked car if it was that urgent?

I'd be willing to take my chances with a fine tbh, rather than risking my personal safety.

bravestar wrote: »

Someone on this thread has already spoken about why people here are considering themselves important enough for serious criminals to target them with fake garda cars. Get over yourselves.

You don't have to be wealthy or important to become a victim of crime. Ordinary boring people are attacked and robbed all the time.

It takes a bit of preparation and planning for any crime to be carried out. In my opinion, the cost of lights and a siren on the internet isn't a high price ... and it doesn't take a lot of organisation to position yourself on an empty road late at night. In a way it's probably less risky than breaking into someone's home, because the people in the car you pull in are most likely going to trust you and do what you say (at first anyways.) And if it goes wrong, e.g. if there are a few people in the car, you could get back into your own car and drive away before they realise anything's going on.

Despite what it sounds like, I'm not actually planning on carrying out something like this myself!

But can you see it from my point of view? I just don't see the point in taking unnecessary risks.

As a matter of interest, what would the fine/punishment be in a case like that? (Assuming no dangerous driving etc. was involved.)

source · 06-10-2009 09:24PM

chatterpillar wrote: »

I completely accept your point in cases where a car is actually speeding/driving dangerously, but what about in a scenario like I mentioned earlier in the thread? If it's late at night on an empty road, I'm driving carefully within the speed limit, and an unmarked car suddenly puts on lights and sirens and tries to make me pull in, I would certainly continue driving at a safe speed until I reached somewhere with people. Chances are if it's the Gardai and they actually had some reason for stopping me, they'd surely send out a marked car if it was that urgent?

Unfortunately it doesn't work like that, the unmarked unit may have observed you doing something, they're not going to wait around for a marked car to come out to stop you, also we send whatever resource is available to a call we don't pick and choose who goes based on what they're driving.

with the obvious exception of sending vans to car chases.

The Big Red Button · 06-10-2009 09:55PM

foinse wrote: »

Unfortunately it doesn't work like that, the unmarked unit may have observed you doing something, they're not going to wait around for a marked car to come out to stop you, also we send whatever resource is available to a call we don't pick and choose who goes based on what they're driving.

with the obvious exception of sending vans to car chases.

And would they really mind you continuing driving to the nearest town/village before pulling in? If you were driving safely and carefully? I'd imagine if you were to explain your reasons, surely the Garda in question would be pretty understanding?

CharlieCroker · 06-10-2009 10:08PM

depends. if this happened at 2am, and i was stopping a car that refused, the first thing that would cross my mind would be drunk driver which would make me wanna stop them even quicker.

Saying that, something like this did happen during my training and the driver was let off with a warning because he was he was physically shaking cos he didnt know it was an unmarked (even with the dashlight) and more importantly because he passed the roadside breath test

Zambia · 06-10-2009 10:32PM

True I am sure there is a big difference between failing to stop and trying to evade a unmarked car.

If people are still worried you could ask Securior where you buy those stickers that explain you will proceed to the nearest manned garda station (After an bord snip) this may include a fuel stop. Put them on each end of your bumper.

Even then I remember going into Sundrive road Garda station asking for a garda to which the desk Garda said
"I don't keep a load in the back you know, I cant just shut down the station because you want me to have a look at someone,I will call the area car"

So chances are you drive to the nearest Garda Station and get jacked in the car park. As all the Garda are out following other citizens who are driving at 50Kmph towards their own local Garda stations that refuse to stop in case they fall victim to the apparent epidemic of kidnappings that has befallen Ireland since I left.

The Big Red Button · 06-10-2009 11:45PM

Zambia232 wrote: »

So chances are you drive to the nearest Garda Station and get jacked in the car park. As all the Garda are out following other citizens who are driving at 50Kmph towards their own local Garda stations that refuse to stop in case they fall victim to the apparent epidemic of kidnappings that has befallen Ireland since I left.

Lol I know I must sound like a paranoid idiot! But the fact is, I'm a good careful driver who doesn't do anything ever to attract Garda attention. It would be so unlikely that an unmarked car would ever be trying to pull me in, but if they ever were, I'd like to know what the consequences were should I keep driving til I get to somewhere safe.

And it's not "kidnappings" I'm afraid of, just basic robbery really, though it's not like I've anything worth robbing.

bravestar · 07-10-2009 12:35AM

foinse wrote: »

Surveillance have their own cars, i won't get into what they look like, unmarked Garda cars are usually pretty easy to spot, what with the bumper lights on all the newer models.

I have said to do it if someone feels they are really in danger from someone posing as a member i would never do a reg check for a member of the public, but if i got a call from a distraught member of the public, saying they had someone trying to pull them over i'd definately look into it. protecting the public, unless i'm mistaken is why we're in this job. If that means reassuring someone who doesn't realise that blue flashing lights means the Gardai and not the boogeymen then so be it.

I'm well aware of specialist surveillance units having their own cars. Do you mean to tell me that your local DDU/drugs never do any surveillance before searches etc?

If someone genuinely feels in danger I would attempt to contact said unmarked vehicle and if they said that they were trying to pull over a car that was failing to stop only then would I tell pal on the other end of the line if it was a state car.

Preset No.3 · 07-10-2009 02:30AM

Jesus bravestar, GET OVER YOURSELF!!!! So sorry if I want to protect myself what with the amount of robberies, rapes, murders and so on that happen daily in this country. So sorry if it annoys you that I dont stop straight away just because someone in an unmarked car happens to flash a blue light at me. It must be a terrible thing that the public doesnt do exactly what you say all the time.

Without giving out 'to much information' I think we all know that the majority of unmarked cars are Ford Mondeos! Just on a side note, why are there so many unmarked cars being driven by uniformed members?

Maybe I'll go to the auctions, buy an old Mondeo, take off the hubcaps, break the aerial, kick it a few times to give it a few dents and then stick the dash master I bought on ebay for €100 and then see if I can fool someone in an aston martin to pull over.

bravestar · 07-10-2009 03:03AM

Preset No.3 wrote: »

Jesus bravestar, GET OVER YOURSELF!!!! So sorry if I want to protect myself what with the amount of robberies, rapes, murders and so on that happen daily in this country. So sorry if it annoys you that I dont stop straight away just because someone in an unmarked car happens to flash a blue light at me. It must be a terrible thing that the public doesnt do exactly what you say all the time.

Without giving out 'to much information' I think we all know that the majority of unmarked cars are Ford Mondeos! Just on a side note, why are there so many unmarked cars being driven by uniformed members?

Maybe I'll go to the auctions, buy an old Mondeo, take off the hubcaps, break the aerial, kick it a few times to give it a few dents and then stick the dash master I bought on ebay for €100 and then see if I can fool someone in an aston martin to pull over.

While I can understand you wanting to protect yourself, the level of instances of bogus unmarked cars pulling people over and robbing/raping/ murdering them is thankfully very low.

If a member of An Garda Siochana is working in plain clothes they are obliged to identify themselves when using any of their powers, this usually takes the form of them showing you their badge.

If said unmarked car pulls you over, keep the doors locked and windows up. If the supposed Gardai do not have identification, and are not in uniform, then you are under no obligation to comply with their requests and you should leave and report it to your local station/call 112.

The Big Red Button · 07-10-2009 03:47AM

bravestar wrote: »

If said unmarked car pulls you over, keep the doors locked and windows up. If the supposed Gardai do not have identification, and are not in uniform, then you are under no obligation to comply with their requests and you should leave and report it to your local station/call 112.

Look, I don't think that's a situation in which I would be comfortable if I was alone in a car late at night in a deserted area. In a worst case scenario (which I will willingly admit is extremely unlikely, but still possible), if the person(s) in the car which pulled me in had the right weapons, I could be putting myself in serious danger. Even if I kept the doors locked and windows up.

Again, why would it be such a major problem if I waited until the next populated area before pulling in? Assuming I hadn't done anything wrong as far as I knew, and I hadn't been drinking, etc.

Zambia · 07-10-2009 04:21AM

Ok considering how far out this scenario is if this happens.

Drive a a legal speed a little under switch on your warning lights and drive carefully till you reach a populated area. The garda may give you a boloxing for not stopping but as you are no danger to the public they will not enforce the stop.

Not too mention once you drive at this speed long enough you will build up the traffic behind you as no one wants to overtake a Garda car with its blue lights flashing. You will build up your own populated area.

You might get a summons for wasting police time, but sure at least you avoided being jacked.

I have been car jacked and its no fun and very hard to avoid, why waste money on a car and fake lights all I need to car jack anyone is a hand gun and a set of traffic lights.

I eagerly await the next thread on failing to stop at traffic lights:rolleyes:

civildefence · 07-10-2009 04:23AM

Preset No.3 wrote: »

Just on a side note, why are there so many unmarked cars being driven by uniformed members?

Task forces, inconspicuity, while still being easily identifiable as policemen when outside the car.

Zambia · 07-10-2009 04:26AM

Cool I thought it was cutbacks...

civildefence · 07-10-2009 04:44AM

Zambia232 wrote: »

Cool I thought it was cutbacks...

Uniformed members have been driving unmarked cars for as long as i can remember

Zambia · 07-10-2009 05:23AM

civildefence wrote: »

Uniformed members have been driving unmarked cars for as long as i can remember

Oh ffs I was being sarcastic, granted my bad I did not include the :rolleyes:

07-10-2009 11:24AM

Can anybody give an example of this happening in recent years? Because I can't think of it ever happening. The only Car-Jackings that I have heard of have been in Cities and do not involve "un-marked" Garda cars.

Hooch · 07-10-2009 11:45AM

foreign wrote: »

Can anybody give an example of this happening in recent years? Because I can't think of it ever happening. The only Car-Jackings that I have heard of have been in Cities and do not involve "un-marked" Garda cars.

Only time I remember un marked used were Provos back in the day to hijack mail vans.

johnnyskeleton · 08-10-2009 01:43AM

nice guy always wrote: »

Report them. Only light they may have shown to the front is the yellow/white headllights and yellow/white spot/fog lights in fog or falling snow.

And indicators.

Failure to stop for unmarked police vehicle

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