BTEA/Grant + Post Graduate Diploma in Education

missym · 05-08-2009 10:29pm #1

I am 25 years old and wish to return to college to do the PostGraduate Diploma in Education. I have been trying to find out if I am entitled to the Higher Education Grant and the BTEA. I have done a B.A. degree which is a level 8 and a Higher Diploma in Business Studies. In order to get the grant there has to be progression so what I have been trying to find out is what level are my Business diploma and the Post Graduate Diploma in Education.

I have called my Local Authority Grant office three times and I find they are giving me 'no, you are entitled to nothing' straight out and not willing to address my queries. They have told me that there is confusion about what students doing the Post Graduate Diploma in Education are entitled to.

I then contacted my University who informed me that to their knowledge I would be entitled to it because the Post Graduate Diploma in Education is a level 9 and the other two courses are level 8.

after that I contacted the Citizens Information Office who gave me a phone number for the National Qualification Office based in Dublin. I called them today and the woman was very helpful. She told me something that shocked me. She told me that the Post Graduate Diploma in Education has NO designated level because some Universities call it a Higher Diploma in Education and others call it a Post Graduate Diploma in Education. I asked her how can local authorities decide if some one is entitled to the grant if there is no level attached to the course. Obviously she was unable to answer this. I am waiting for her to call me back about what level my Diploma in Business is. I just feel very frustrated because of all the conflicting advice. I just want to find out what I am entitled to and I am finding this whole situation so bizarre and confusing.

I have then gone to look at the Back to Education Allowance. As i was teaching until June and only claimed social welfare since then I am not entitled to this allowance this year. I am willing to wait until next year to go back to college if I am definitely entitled to it. This is what I have been trying to find out. I called my local social welfare office to clarify if post graduate students are entitled to it. The girl told me that students doing a Higher Diploma are entitled to it but other post graduate students are not. I asked the girl would the Post Graduate Diploma in Education be covered as it used to be (and still is in some Universities) called the Higher Diploma. The girl said she didn't know. I am so frustrated.

Apologies for the length of the post, I appreciate any help.
Thank you

rustbucket · 06-08-2009 11:55am

Hi

Im in a similar position to you and am having the same problem with DLRCC.

I undertook a BA and subsequently an MSC, and applied for a Higher education Grant.

I have never had agrant before as I was previously living with my parents and did not qualify.

I am now a mture student living independently.

I have a mortgage and have given up my job to go back to college so on that basis I have checked, and qualify to be eleigible for a grant.

Both the Citizens information Centre and The Dun Laoghaire VEC informed me that I should be eligible. The grant application paperwork describes the necessary criteria required to apply for a grant and I tick all the boxes. The only grey area is the 'progression' area.

I got a call today from DLR CC to inform me that my application had been rejected as the MSC I undertook and the Postgraduate Diploma in Education are both level 9, and therefore does not represent progression.

'Progression' is not clearly defined in the application process and to me this is progession as I am furthering my education to pursue a career change.

They informed me that there was no point in appealing as it would just be rejected.

Your info above says that there is no classification for the HDIP and on top of that I heard on the radio yesterday that the governement were setting aside fundingfor over 1000 free college places for people recently made redundant/unemployed, no matter what their education level is.

Makes my blood boil... have never milked the system, have never been entitled to a grant and am now denied it when I need it on a very debateable issue.

Would not mind if there was absolute clarity but in this case there is not!

snubbleste · 06-08-2009 11:59am

You've put a lot of effort into seeking some answers!

By my reckoning, you'd be entitled to a maintenance grant for the PGDE since this would be progression.
But, not the Btea since you already have a postgrad qualification and you'd need to state your case is a very exceptional one in order to qualify for this. The rules state:

a postgraduate course of study that leads to any Higher Diploma (H. Dip.) qualification in any discipline OR a postgraduate Diploma in Education.
Other postgraduate qualifications including a Master's degree are not recognised for BTEA purposes.

You will not get the BTEA if you already hold a postgraduate qualification

Your uni should be able to put in writing what level your DBS is and you should email the student grants section on education.ie as regards your eligibility for the PGDE based on your qualifications so far.
All the above is only my opinion..

snubbleste · 06-08-2009 12:04pm

Hi rustbucket
A HDip/PGDE is below a masters qualification, in order to qualify for free fees and or a grant you need to be progressing

BA --> HDip --> MA --> Phd

rustbucket · 06-08-2009 12:07pm

Thanks for the info

Does it matter that my masters was an MSC and not an MA?

snubbleste · 06-08-2009 12:11pm

rustbucket wrote: »

Thanks for the info

Does it matter that my masters was an MSC and not an MA?

No.

rustbucket · 06-08-2009 3:40pm

Hey

Have been doing a bit of ringing around

The MSC I did in DIT has been classed as level 9 NFQ. I checked this with both DIT and with the NQAI.

I also enquired about the NFQ level of the HDIP and the PGDIP in Trintity (formerly HDIP)

The NQAI has said that there has been no level set for the HDIP as there has been no agreement amongst the univeristies as to the level it should be set at.

Similarly as the PGDIP was formerly the HDIP, why would they have a level for that?

The NQAI could not find a NFQ level for the PGDIP and there is non listed either on Qualifax, so again, there is no official NFQ level for this course.

If there is no official NFQ level, how can the Local authority prove or that the course does not represent progression or indeed measure it at all? If there is no NFQ level for this how can you refuse a grant application?

I am not having a rant about the fact that I got refused, I plan to do that in an appeal, but the lack of clarity is extremely frustrating.

missym · 06-08-2009 7:11pm

Hi,
It's reassuring to see other people have similar issues. I decided last night to contact my local TD just to see if he could get me some clarity. First thing this morning he rang me and by lunch time he had answers. He established for me that my Higher Diploma in Business Studies was a level 8 and my post graduate diploma in education is a level 9. So, I have to get a letter from the course I hope to start in a few weeks stating that the course is a level 9. I will then personally bring it to my local authority and plead my case. Based on their rule of progression I should be entitled to it, however up to now they say I am not. Fingers crossed!!
As a 25 year old mature student will my parents income be considered in order for me to get the grant?

Thanks

snubbleste · 07-08-2009 7:40am

Hi rustbucket,
A postgraduate diploma/higher diploma is a lesser award than a masters in all cases, just as a diploma is classed lower than a degree. I would expect your local authority to be anal about this. Let us know how you get on

As a 25 year old mature student will my parents income be considered in order for me to get the grant?

If you are living with your parents, then yes it will.

Dionysus · 11-08-2009 6:36pm

missym wrote: »

Hi,
It's reassuring to see other people have similar issues. I decided last night to contact my local TD just to see if he could get me some clarity. First thing this morning he rang me and by lunch time he had answers. He established for me that my Higher Diploma in Business Studies was a level 8 and my post graduate diploma in education is a level 9. So, I have to get a letter from the course I hope to start in a few weeks stating that the course is a level 9. I will then personally bring it to my local authority and plead my case. Based on their rule of progression I should be entitled to it, however up to now they say I am not. Fingers crossed!!
As a 25 year old mature student will my parents income be considered in order for me to get the grant?

Thanks

Two excellent and very informative posts, missym. Thanks a million.

tca · 14-08-2009 1:01pm

Hi ya,

The PGD is lower than a masters even though they are both level 9. A masters is just above this and is seen as progression from the dip.

I have just completed the PGD in Business and got a grant and I am now applying for a masters as I was told I am eligible. But some good news for you! You can apply for tax relief on your course just make sure its a recognised course (revenue.ie). Fill out the form and send it away. You should get about 40% of tuition fees back which would work out at about 2,000-2,500euro. You should defn look into it. My friend did it with her dip.:)

missym · 14-08-2009 10:46pm

Hi,
I want to say thanks to every one for replying. I just thought I should give you an update. I am not going to be able to go to college this year. After all my research about the level of my course all it came down to was the Higher Education Grants assesing my income and my parents from last year. This is ridiculous as the job I had was a fixed term teaching contract and has ended and so I am now on welfare. My mother has been cut down to two days a week so last years pay is not accurate now.
Anyway as a result I am not entitled to the grant so I will delay college for a year, move out and go through the whole thing again next year

Thanks again

sally208 · 20-08-2009 11:36pm

you should look into the change of circumstances clause as your income has changed substantially from last year, hope this helps

dumbblonde122 · 09-09-2009 8:55pm

Hi guys,

Sorry to invade this post but I'm hoping someone can clarify summit for me.

I am 25 and going into my 5th and final year of a counselling degree. I am in receipt of JB since January and my course is approved on the social website for a grant. I am aware that if you are in receipt of JB for nine months, you are eligible for the BTEA but they are telling me at the social I am not without any proper answe as to why.

Can anyoonje shed some light on this adn if I am not entitled to it, is there anything else I can avail of?

Thanks in advance

bethm24 · 10-09-2009 2:08pm

missym wrote: »

Hi,
I want to say thanks to every one for replying. I just thought I should give you an update. I am not going to be able to go to college this year. After all my research about the level of my course all it came down to was the Higher Education Grants assesing my income and my parents from last year. This is ridiculous as the job I had was a fixed term teaching contract and has ended and so I am now on welfare. My mother has been cut down to two days a week so last years pay is not accurate now.
Anyway as a result I am not entitled to the grant so I will delay college for a year, move out and go through the whole thing again next year
Thanks again

Thats awful. i dont know if im getting the grant this year either. sucks. but if i dont im judt going to go and get a loan to pay for college. is that an option for you? its such a load a crap the way they bang on about last october , how irritating

Marial79 · 28-09-2009 9:21pm

HI guys,
after many searches I got ya!!
My situation is similar, even though I do recognise I've been lucky.
I had got a CE scheme job that I really liked but I got a grant for a post graduate diploma in the NUIG and I was told by the grant office that they were told to consider this course as a level 8 (and the secretary of the course said that almost all the H.dips have been renamed as PGD)...so I was happy and I went to social welfare with this information and the national framework of qualifications and one guy there said it will be fine.
I went to change my address today ( my application is still pending) and the guy ( not the same one) looks at my file: Oh I don't think you are eligible, this a PGD.
I got shocked and went again in the afternoon. A lady treated me like a piece of ****, showing what I already knew and saying that the decision hasn't been made but it's unlikely that I'll get it.

In addition, a girl on my course ( the same course!!!!) got it. She was on BTE last year as undergraduate and she keeps getting it.
If they reject my application, how can I put someone else in the middle?

I am very angry because I had refused a job that I loved and I am still looking for another one (I have an interview on wed) and there are people sitting all day and getting money.

Lack of information and rude persons are hard to bear

SATC · 01-10-2009 2:08pm

does nt all this suck when your simply trying to educate yourself!!!
does anyone know: are higher diploma in education (primary), ran by marino institue/trinity covered by free fees. on web site it simply says fee s are determined by the dept of education, nothing about being covered by free fees initiative. i have level 8 BA honours i was entitled to grant and fees for that but am thinking of returning next year (7 years later) for teacher training. very confused. thanks in advance. great site by the way ..this is my first post

Marial79 · 20-10-2009 9:59pm

Hello there,

I refused the course because I couldn't get the BTE and I refused the grant as well ( I did not do as some people that keep getting the the money from the grant office without telling anyone theu have dropped).
Now, the NUI Galway wants me to pay for the fees because I deregistered, but the registration it self it's a commitment to pay for the fees in full.
I do not have that money and I am not doing the course (I dropped out the 5th of October).
I had taken into account that the 224 euro paid for the student levy was gone but this is ridicolous.
What I am asking you is.
What consequences I am goint to have, legally speaking if I don't pay.
The regulation is just on the website and when you register this is not written anywhere.
The website also said that if fees or penalties have not been paid by the 31st of January 2010, you 'll be cancelled and not be able to do exams.
In addition, I had a meeting with someone from the mature student, and we talked about my financial situation and I wasn't told anything abut the fees regulation.
What'is gonna happen? I do not have this money and I have to work to pay for my rent not for a course I am not doing?
Any suggestions, I am pretty nervous. I didn't study in Ireland and it sounds so incredible to me.
Please help!!!

SATC · 21-10-2009 7:29pm

hi marial79
thats awful i cant see how they could make you pay the fees for a course you aren t doing and as you weren t informed of this at time of registration surely you can t be held to it. maybe contact someone in the students union for advice or just call the fees office directly and talk it out with them. theres also a good website studentfinance.ie or contact your local citizens information office. if you dont mind my asking why were you refused the btea and grant, i just ask because im hoping to do that course and im wondering is it not recognised by or covered by the grants and btea

Marial79 · 21-10-2009 8:33pm

Well,
you can still get a grant from the county council but not Back to education because the course (that used to be a higher diploma) is post graduate and a level 9.
Well, I emailed the fees office. The answer is:" Although I sympathise with your situation I am afraid that you owe the University the remaining course fee of €5741.00. Our regulations clearly state that when a student registers for a course they become liable for the full course fee."
I don't know what "clearly" means to them. When you pay for your student levy and you register nothing says that.
It's written on the NUIG website( that's it) and it wasn't even working properly during registration time (too busy).
Well, I am not going to pay for a course I am not doing, after refusing the grant and being honest for the sake of other people that could benefit from it (I could have kept my cheques and shut my mouth up, but I didn't want to)
In addition I don't really have the money.
I even had a meeting with someone from the mature student office before dropping and I wasn't told anything ( we spoke about my financial problems, can you believe it?).
The website also says that when fees and penalties have not been discharged by 31/01/2010 your registration will be cancelled... I already did it sirs!!!! At the start of the acamice year.
It's a scandal! The trinity college in Dublin, refunds the fees in full if you withdraw by the 31/10, just half by the 31/01. Other colleges just tell you to check your situation if are going to re-apply for a course the following year.
Is this a contract? I already lost 224 euro for the student levy, isn't that enough?
That has never happened to me before and to be honest, it sounds like a legal robbery but I am not gooing to let them rip me off.
Sorry but I am so angry, I don't think I will never ever consider the NUIG as an option again.

coylet1 · 03-11-2009 9:23am

HI,

Did you get this sorted, same sit myself. made redundant and looking atopen university PGCE, can I get the BTEA/grant? Mature student 35+ BSC and MSC.

Marial79 · 03-11-2009 10:19am

HI,
Well, I am just ignoring them and I am looking for a job (I felt miserable when I rang back the company that offered me a job which I refused in order to do the course).
I don't think an open university is eligible for the grant. I am not sure about the BTEA, as a gut feeling, I wouldn't say so but double check with your citizen office information.

Best of luck

coylet1 · 04-11-2009 10:18am

Does anyone know if the grant authourities can find out if i did a masters ~10yrs ago, as with it I can't get the BTEA for the PGDE, so i wasn't going to say!! as I need to live on something and the course is thru open university so I can't get a grant either, mature 35+. can anyone help me as i may as well stay on JS benefit when I am made redundant cause there seems to be no financial support for returning to college

Marial79 · 04-11-2009 11:54am

HI,
Honestly, I don't think they can: What I've learned about this country is that the more you tell the truth the more you are punished. I never wanted to do that but I know many people who are actually doing it.
If I was you I woud worry just if I had registered with FAS, saying that I have a master, but this would be my only concern. Or If you got a grant in the past for your master from the same authority.
Some people don't tell anything to the social welfare and the do their course, then they know they will find it out somehow but they consider it as a loan from the government.
I prefer to follow my way and be honest, so I 've been applying for all the CE scheme positions, some are crap but some are very good jobs, and there is 500 euro budget for courses. In addition, if you get another job, the payment won't be cut. It's another way to get experience and get funded by the governement

eth0_ · 05-11-2009 12:45pm

coylet1 wrote: »

can anyone help me as i may as well stay on JS benefit when I am made redundant cause there seems to be no financial support for returning to college

The BTEA is for people who are long-term unemployed who do not have qualifications, unlike someone like you who already has a degree and a masters.

The BTEA is not a freebie to help people who fancy a change in career direction.

coylet1 · 05-11-2009 12:54pm

eth0_ wrote: »

The BTEA is for people who are long-term unemployed who do not have qualifications, unlike someone like you who already has a degree and a masters.

The BTEA is not a freebie to help people who fancy a change in career direction.

Not that I FANCY a change in career but I have no option other than remain unemployed. I f I could get employment with my current qualkifications I would.
Why are you wasting peoples time being so critical? Obvioulsy nothing to so -
as previouly stated please do NOT respond unless valuable FB!!!

aidan_mc · 13-11-2009 1:49pm

Hi all

Having been mave redundant in June.
I though I'd use the enforced situation.
To get that always desired Msc.
I have an Bsc.
Wanting to do a Msc makes me ineligible for BTEA.
Useful advice well come.

A

DRose1 · 04-04-2012 10:16am

Bump.

Found this thread after a lot of searching and it contains a lot of the questions I have, but unfortunately a lot of them were unresolved.

Has anyone received the BTEA and started a postgraduate diploma that is NOT in education?

Link to most up to date BTEA page on the welfare website:

http://www.welfare.ie/en/publications/sw70/pages/abacktoeducationallowancebtea.aspx

The course I am looking into doing is this:

http://www.dcu.ie/prospective/deginfo.php?classname=GDF&originating_school=40

I have contacted DCU and they told me it is a level 9 course and you would be awarded a 'Graduate Diploma in Information Technology' upon completion.

I quality under all of the other headings in the BTEA (I have no post grad qualifications, just an undergraduate honors degree), but not sure if the course above would qualify...

Any advice would be appreciated.

Note: I am fairly sure I would not qualify for a grant, hence my current research on the BTEA.

cee_jay · 04-04-2012 10:43am

That course is not covered as an approved course for BTEA under the current guidelines.
For a postgrad to be covered under BTEA, the award must be a Higher Diploma. If it is a graduate diploma award, it can be a course in education only.

DRose1 · 04-04-2012 12:58pm

cee_jay wrote: »

That course is not covered as an approved course for BTEA under the current guidelines.
For a postgrad to be covered under BTEA, the award must be a Higher Diploma. If it is a graduate diploma award, it can be a course in education only.

That is what I expected.

In your experience, has anyone in a similar situation to mine ever successfully received the BTEA by appealing to x person (tell them the BTEA is vital to me resuming study, getting employment etc) or something similar?

Thanks.

cee_jay · 04-04-2012 8:49pm

I don't have any experience in that, but perhaps you should look at the IT Skills Programme?
If you are looking at doing IT, and that course isn't covered, this is a programme aimed at graduates from non-IT related disciplines.
The info on this programme is here: http://www.bluebrick.ie/ICTSkills/

DRose1 · 04-04-2012 9:57pm

cee_jay wrote: »

I don't have any experience in that, but perhaps you should look at the IT Skills Programme?
If you are looking at doing IT, and that course isn't covered, this is a programme aimed at graduates from non-IT related disciplines.
The info on this programme is here: http://www.bluebrick.ie/ICTSkills/

Thanks, I will look into that.

I will probably do some further research into getting the BTEA for the DCU IT course I linked above.

It's a long shot, but maybe if I can get speaking to the right person in the social welfare office it will give me a small chance of getting around the exact requirements from the BTEA website. (I qualify under every other heading, but as you pointed out, the course I want is not covered)

Any other advice/info from anybody else would be appreciated.

scru · 09-01-2013 7:39pm

Hi missym / rustbucket,

I just wanted to check if you got the grant in the end? I'm in a similar position this year, but the PDE (HDip) has since been downgraded to a level 8.

Thanks.

rustbucket · 09-01-2013 8:06pm

No. Never got it in the end. I appealed it aswell but it was rejected. They view it as progression based on the level it is awarded.

BTEA/Grant + Post Graduate Diploma in Education

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