Irish prisons 'in breach of human rights standards'

Kiera · 26-09-2009 02:33PM

tallaght01 wrote: »

NO.

Do something for me? Next time i'm talking to someone else in a thread, will you keep out of it? You got the wrong end of the stick here and wouldn't let it go. I was talking about something else with Kipperhell and you butted in about something totally different.

/bangs head off pebble-dash wall.

PCPhoto · 26-09-2009 02:38PM

Kiera wrote: »

Do something for me? Next time i'm talking to someone else in a thread, will you keep out of it? You got the wrong end of the stick here and wouldn't let it go. I was talking about something else with Kipperhell and you butted in about something totally different.

/bangs head off pebble-dash wall.

ouch...pebble dash wall .... those hurt !!

Dartz · 26-09-2009 03:23PM

tallaght01 wrote: »

To say that criminals should be made live in their own piss etc because they deserve it etc etc is just being over simplistic. It's completely ignoring the fact that they have been put somewhere to keep them away from the public until they are safe to let out.

This does not equate with treating them as being subhuman. Their punishment is to be taken out of society for a period of time. Their punishment is not having all of their liberty and dignity taken away from them.

It also ignores circumstance. There's a bloody good reason that poorer, disadvantaged people end up in prison, and a tiny minority are from privileged backgrounds. That is because circumstance dictates how your life goes.

This always sparks a stampeded of "I was poor as an Ethiopian and I didn't go to jail" responses. But anyone who knows anything about sensible argument knows that arguing by counter-example proves nothing.

I reckon put people away if they are a danger to society. If they aren't dangerous, make them work on the outside for the benefit of society. Stop them holding down any other job etc. Tag them if needed. Rehabilitate the junkies. Educate the illiterate ones. Keep the drug dealers, the murderers, the violent guys etc inside, though. But give them toilets and somewhere to wash, for jesus' sake.

I know it's not the popular AH response, but saying things like "they all deserve what they get, they're scum, they should have no rights" shows a complete an utter lack of understanding of A) How you rehabilitate people The concept of humanity and C) the societal factors which lead people to become criminals.

Even if you don't have a humanitarian bone in your body, you can't claim that the current system benefits us or the criminals.

Yeah.

Unfortunately. Such things cost more money than just stuffing 'em in a little bit tighter. Would there be a saving of money in the long run? From reduction of repeat offenders... probably... but the government never sees it like that... they see 'cheap now, pay later, preferably under another government so people will vote us in to get that shower out'

Kipperhell · 26-09-2009 04:10PM

Kiera wrote: »

No i couldnt. EVER! Having a small bit of weed/pills/coke wouldnt land me in prison.

Actually it could. I also mentioned a altercation could land you in prison and I find it hard to believe a male in Ireland has never been in a situation where they have punched somebody. I don't mean in self defence either and that could land you in jail.

The fact you seem to want to rely on your good conduct thus far to keep out of prison seems like you have no concept of what could happen to somebody as guilty as you for minor infractions ending up in jail. Maybe you should check if you have any empathy.

Just because somebody ends up in prison doesn't make them scum. It is interesting how you have deflected the fact you approve of prisoners' health being put at risk along with prison officers' as a state sanctioned form of punishment. I wonder how that will reduce crime?

Kiera · 26-09-2009 05:37PM

Kipperhell wrote: »

Actually it could. I also mentioned a altercation could land you in prison and I find it hard to believe a male in Ireland has never been in a situation where they have punched somebody. I don't mean in self defence either and that could land you in jail.

The fact you seem to want to rely on your good conduct thus far to keep out of prison seems like you have no concept of what could happen to somebody as guilty as you for minor infractions ending up in jail. Maybe you should check if you have any empathy.

Just because somebody ends up in prison doesn't make them scum. It is interesting how you have deflected the fact you approve of prisoners' health being put at risk along with prison officers' as a state sanctioned form of punishment. I wonder how that will reduce crime?

I'm actually going on the 2 guys i know that are in prison. They are scum. Of course i wouldnt want a prison officer (a close friend of mine is one) to get ill while in work but i dont see how they would. The prisoner slops out and not the officers. The prisoners are the ones in the cells, not the officers.

If you think "dirty bombs" wouldnt happen in prison if they had flush toilets you are very much mistaken! I stand by what i said. I dont think they deserve even half decent amenities.

Kipperhell · 26-09-2009 07:09PM

Kiera wrote: »

I'm actually going on the 2 guys i know that are in prison. They are scum. Of course i wouldnt want a prison officer (a close friend of mine is one) to get ill while in work but i dont see how they would. The prisoner slops out and not the officers. The prisoners are the ones in the cells, not the officers.

If you think "dirty bombs" wouldnt happen in prison if they had flush toilets you are very much mistaken! I stand by what i said. I dont think they deserve even half decent amenities.

A poor understanding of the health risks is obvious on your side. Just because you know 2 people in prison doesn't really mean you have knowledge of the rest does it? I know of a few people who have been and are in prison that aren't scum.

If you dehumanise a person it will not act as a deterrent but a factory to create more dangerous/dysfunctional people.

You seem to think if you mistreat people they will learn to behave better in society. That hasn't proved successful in fact it has been proved to make people worse. The objective of prison is to stop people committing further crime as far as I am concerned. If your idea worked I would support it. It doesn't so lets try something better.

Lone Stone · 26-09-2009 08:08PM

Not everyone who goes to prison is a scum bag :rolleyes:

DublinWriter · 26-09-2009 08:12PM

TheInquisitor wrote: »

Three buckets? The scum should only have 1!

The old saying is true, a conservative is only a liberal who hasn't been arrested yet.

By scum, do you mean the half-dozen or so unfortunate souls who ended up in the 'joy last year for non-payment of their TV licences?

ArmaniJeanss · 26-09-2009 08:28PM

Kiera wrote: »

The question was "have you ever done something that would land you in prison". NO i have not!

Keira if this is true (and no reason to think its not) then you are in a really really tiny minority of the population.

Anyone who has ever driven a car, and dropped below 100% concentration for even a second, was at risk of a death by dangerous driving conviction.

Anyone who has ever been in a fight in a pub where punches have been thrown (probably about 80% of the male population of the country) had the potential to end up in court on a manslaughter charge with just the interpration of 12 of your peers and the leniency of a judge between them and a stint in jail.

It's a very thin line, plenty of lawabiding people have started the day with no intention of committing a crime and ended the day with their life turned upside down.

Towers85 · 28-09-2009 02:28PM

Mountjoy is a complete ****hole. It is a disgrace that it is still open in 2009. I was there last year and it is overcrowded, dirty and smelly. I wasn't there for too long but being put in a place like that gets to you - stuck in a tiny cell and having to do your business at night in a piss pot if the screws don't let you out. I had a couple of mates in there so didn't get on too bad but there are always scraps and fights going on. I was in a cell with a lad who had been in prison in England and he said it was much better over there. The Midlands was much better but it was stricter there like on visits but there was less trouble. People have been killed in there in the past few years - that should make it be closed down.

TomOl wrote: »

On a different but related topic - I cannot understand why no male prisioner in Mountjoy has taken a case to the Equality Authority complaining about the different standards of treatment for male and female prisioners. Female have ensuite bedrooms - not cells, cook their own food, wear their own clothes, have one to one counselling and endless classes and most importantare not handcuffed when going to jail. Males, on the other hand, are paraded before the TV cameras in handcuffs to humilate them, they share cells with other inmates, even those considered dangerous, have to go to the toilet in buckets in their cells and no counselling and few classes.

It's not fair that women get treated so differently. When I was in court there was a woman ahead of me and had done worse than I had and yet because she had children the judge didn't send her to jail. Even if they do do time they get treated alot better.

Coming out of court where I was there were photographers taking pictures of us going in to the van in handcuffs - why did they have to do that?

wudangclan · 28-09-2009 03:07PM

Kiera wrote: »

No i couldnt. EVER! Having a small bit of weed/pills/coke wouldnt land me in prison.

but you've no problem with the people who sold you those products being incarcerated in atrocious conditions.?

exile from the tribe should be punishment enough(for most crimes),sitting staring at 4 walls for 22/23 hours per day for years on end is harsh enough without being subjected to living in unsanitary conditions.

dtwhaler · 28-09-2009 03:32PM

wudangclan wrote: »

exile from the tribe should be punishment enough(for most crimes),sitting staring at 4 walls for 22/23 hours per day for years on end is harsh enough without being subjected to living in unsanitary conditions.

Oh me heart bleeds ! If you cant do the time, dont do the crime. If life inside is that bit harder then maybe .... just maybe it might go some way to deter a criminal.

genericguy · 28-09-2009 03:56PM

wudangclan wrote: »

sitting with a pool table/tv/free education/food/knives/gym/smack staring at 4 walls for 22/23 hours per day for years on end is harsh enough without being subjected to living in unsanitary conditions.

FYP

Reindeer · 29-09-2009 06:11AM

dlofnep wrote: »

Great post.

Bah. I like the idea the Americans have - ya get 2 shots. On the third, yer in gladiator academy forever(well, 20 years to life). I've no tolerance for people whom can not keep themselves out of the Irish system. How many times do you have to be caught before you actually serve real time in a prison? It shows you are incompetent as a human being. So, third time, take all their ID from them, especially a passport, send them to Birmingham, or maybe Glasgow. It's what they deserve. If they can find a way to sneak back without ID, fair play to them. Return them their ID and personal possessions, and then shoot them in the face.

An Fear Aniar · 29-09-2009 07:47AM

Lone Stone wrote: »

Not everyone who goes to prison is a scum bag :rolleyes:

This is true. Some people end up doing something stupid while drunk and wake up in a cell.

.

ShooterSF · 29-09-2009 11:08AM

Not sure where I stand on living conditions in prisons but having visited Mountjoy on a tour with my school years ago I was shocked at the difference in the men's and women's prisons. For me that HAS to change. If it was the other way around I'd imagine there would be outrage.

120_Minutes · 29-09-2009 01:20PM

Local-womanizer wrote: »

We should follow the style of American Prisons.The majority are in good shape but they dont let their inmates sit about all day.

They have them out working most days,in return for a minimal wage which they need to buy food.There is one prison that wont allow money from family so the inmates only source of income is the work.They dont work,they dont eat.

In return society gets something off these inmates and they dont pay as much towards the upkeep of the inmates.

This.

there are plenty of roads and grass verges amongst other things in this country that need maintaining. lord knows the county councils are doing **** all.

prisoners pay back by working, ireland looks nicer, win/win

Towers85 · 30-09-2009 12:15PM

Your right I would have much preferred to be outside doing something like that instead of being stuck inside when I was there - alot of prisoners would. I heard that they do some stuff like that but they keep it quiet because people would give out and its normally only for people doing longer sentences and who they don't think will cause trouble. Most people do some work anyway - like kitchens or cleaning

Bill-e · 30-09-2009 12:36PM

They should be put to work building roads and sh!t

minidazzler · 30-09-2009 01:30PM

Bill-e wrote: »

They should be put to work building roads and sh!t

No, then the roads would suck and the road builders would be out of work and on the dole.

They should be made do tedious annoying tasks.

Kiera · 30-09-2009 01:37PM

minidazzler wrote: »

No, then the roads would suck and the road builders would be out of work and on the dole.

They should be made do tedious annoying tasks.

Modding AH?

Irish prisons 'in breach of human rights standards'

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