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Tom McGurk broadcaster, poet & journalist tells it like it is re Lisbon

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  • 27-09-2009 7:39pm
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 113 ✭✭


    http://www.sbpost.ie/commentandanalysis/euro-federalists-bully-us-and-buy-our-vote-44635.html
    The run-in to the Lisbon II vote on Friday, which should have been an example of a 2009 modern European democratic exercise at work, has become a depressing and shabby experience.

    If anything, it has only heightened concerns about any prospect of a visible and accountable European political entity emerging at the end of it all.

    These have been terrible days for Irish democracy.

    From the outset, the Euro federalists were outraged that little Ireland had dared to reject Lisbon.

    This time, they were determined to roll out their big guns. Having conspired to slip the treaty through the various national parliaments after the democratic rebuff they received on the European Constitution, they were astonished that the Irish had used the people’s sovereignty, guaranteed in the Irish Constitution, to say No.

    This time around, they determined that it would be different and, although European money could not be spent on a national referendum, suddenly a wide collection of proLisbon groups seemingly mushroomed out of the zeitgeist.

    No doubt the Yes side, having secretly spent large amounts of money to probe scientifically the increasingly anxious public mood in the middle of our escalating financial crisis, came out determined to frighten voters onto the Yes side.

    As the electorate has suffered the vista of disappearing jobs, escalating costs and a collapsing economy, selling the message that rejecting Lisbon would make it all worse was a no-brainer.

    Quite simply, the subtext of the Yes campaign has been that we are approaching financial disaster so we cannot afford any political luxuries - including having a row over the federalisation of the European Union.

    It has been as simple as that - and it has been as effective as it has been bogus. Even in a week in which the EU sanctioned a huge loan from the Polish government to move Dell jobs from Limerick to Lodz, the Yes voters were still brazening out the attractions of the globalisation ambitions of Lisbon.

    Astonishingly, even the Irish trade unions don’t seem to have spotted that, for multinationals, Lisbon will signal an increasing race to the bottom in wages and conditions. Indeed, with EU enlargement beyond our ability to veto, if Lisbon comes about, look out for sweat-shop labour conditions to come in Croatia, Turkey and even Ukraine a generation down the road.

    The Irish political establishment, too, has been calling in all the favours.

    It has been fascinating to watch the huge numbers of those who enjoy massive salaries, courtesy of the taxpayer, as members of our numerous quangos, come out singing for their supper.

    They even have the celebrity clowns out, the former sports stars and the second-hand car salesmen and the singers and actors all enjoying their 15 minutes of fame and self-publicity.

    But above and beyond this, another development raises serious questions for Irish democracy. Two multinationals - Ryanair and Intel - are spending huge sums on the campaign to encourage a Yes vote. That both contributions have been largely politically illiterate and that both companies are in need of European benevolence hardly diminishes one’s concern.

    Since when have multinationals thrown their considerable weight and resources into a matter of international and domestic importance in Irish politics? Have we become a European Honduras - have we really reached a point in European democracy where the bosses can tell the workers how to vote?

    Who can keep a straight face while listening to Michael O’Leary extol the virtues of Lisbon’s workers’ rights legislation? Indeed, is there not an implied threat to quit Ireland in Intel’s demand for a Yes vote?

    Between them, Ryanair and Intel have contributed €700,000 to the Yes campaign, and huge contributions from Europe are also pouring in. According to the Times in London, one lobbyist, Eamonn Bates, sent e-mails to fellow EU lobbying firms seeking donations of up to €30,000 to help a pro-Lisbon campaign.

    Another organisation, established by Irish people working in Brussels who want a Yes result, planned to spend €500,000 on advertisements.

    By the end, it will actually be possible to calculate accurately how much it cost to overthrow the sovereignty of the people as expressed in the last referendum.

    In these depressing days, we have moved from Europeanisation, to some form of Euro-colonisation as those who dare to reject the Euro federalisation agenda are buried under a vast and expensive campaign that has sought to frighten and undermine the electorate.

    We need hardly argue at this stage what Lisbon II is about. We now know in our waters that it’s the key to unleashing a European project that, in less than a generation, will once again make this country a tiny and insignificant appendage to a vast global enterprise. Its ambitions are no less imperial than those of previous European generations and, while the language may have changed, the political objectives have not.

    This is ultimately about a United States of Europe emerging, eventually, as a significant world power beside the Chinas and the Indias of the future. Its weapons will be unbridled market forces allied with multiculturalism to ensure cheap labour markets, and its ethos will be secular and neo-liberal.

    Above all, as we can now see, it eschews democracy - local or national - seeking to create instead a type of ‘euro-panocracy’ in which, not unlike the old Soviet system, the voters are never limited, just the options they can vote for. In a generation or two, Renaissance Europe and all its genius, which so profoundly shaped our European civilisation, will have been swept away.

    All it requires now is for poor Paddy to forget the instinct that ‘all politics is local’ and, come Friday, head for the polling station with the price of his soul (what might once have been called the King’s shilling) in his hand. Of course, it won’t be the first time in our history that we could be bought so easily. But at least this will be the very, very last time it will be required.

    One of the best articles I've seen written about Lisbon yet and I have to agree with him

    wholeheartedly. I posted this because I thought it deserved a discussion of its own. It is very

    clear, that we the Irish, are been bullied & bought to pass Lisbon. :mad:


«134

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 7,957 ✭✭✭The Volt


    Nice Try Tom


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,553 ✭✭✭roosh


    Good article, just read it in the SBP


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 10,079 Mod ✭✭✭✭marco_polo


    http://www.sbpost.ie/commentandanalysis/euro-federalists-bully-us-and-buy-our-vote-44635.html



    One of the best articles I've seen written about Lisbon yet and I have to agree with him

    wholeheartedly. I posted this because I thought it deserved a discussion of its own. It is very

    clear, that we the Irish, are been bullied & bought to pass Lisbon. :mad:

    As he is playing hard and fast with the truth I can see why it would receive your approval.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 113 ✭✭moondogspot


    marco_polo wrote: »
    As he is playing hard and fast with the truth I can see why it would receive your approval.

    So Tom McGurk is in the bad books now. The yes side never fail to amuse. Anyone can see
    that we are been bullied & bought.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 14,277 ✭✭✭✭Rb


    How are we being bullied?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,762 ✭✭✭turgon


    Any article or person that gives out about the Yes campaign lying, while ignoring the greater amount of lying done by the No campaign, is immediately put into my "ignore" pile.

    I wonder what his agenda is?


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 10,079 Mod ✭✭✭✭marco_polo


    Are you accusing Tom McGurk of lying??:eek:

    The article speaks for itself really.

    EU enlargement beyond our ability to veto, Intel threatning to leave Ireland,
    Self amending blah blah.

    All with a nice sprinkling of some race to the bottom garbage SWP garbage.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    As soon as I got to bit about "Euro federalists" I knew he was talking through his ar*e rubbish. Typical, looks like he knows as much about politics as he does about rugby, and that's not saying a lot.


    Interesting that he should mention "celebrities" coming out on the yes side for 15 minutes of fame. What his background in European politics?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 642 ✭✭✭Kalashnikov_Kid


    Tom McGuirk - broadcaster, poet, journalist, divorcee and boozer.

    Wonder what Eamo has to say about it all - oh wait we were already blessed with a nugget of his amazing intelect weren't we?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 61 ✭✭rebelmind


    Brilliant article Tom, thank you for your clarity & wisdom.
    If their is any don't knows around who still have a scrap of self-respect, please read this & Vote NO, if for nothing more that to tell the Emperor he has no clothes!


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 113 ✭✭moondogspot


    prinz wrote: »
    As soon as I got to bit about "Euro federalists" I knew he was talking through his ar*e rubbish. Typical, looks like he knows as much about politics as he does about rugby, and that's not saying a lot.

    I bet you if he said that the Lisbon Treaty was brilliant, you would be giving him high praise. Tbh I would much prefer to hear his take on things than from some random posters here who know it all.;)


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 10,079 Mod ✭✭✭✭marco_polo


    I bet you if he said that the Lisbon Treaty was brilliant, you woud be giving him high praise. Tbh I would much prefer to hear his take on things than from some random posters who know it all here.;)
    rebelmind wrote: »
    Brilliant article Tom, thank you for your clarity & wisdom.
    If their is any don't knows around who still have a scrap of self-respect, please read this & Vote NO, if for nothing more that to tell the Emperor he has no clothes!



    Could either of you point our the part of the Lisbon Treaty that he is refering to that says we lose our veto on future enlargement?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 14,277 ✭✭✭✭Rb


    OP I notice you've failed to address my question.

    How are we being bullied?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 181 ✭✭Tarobot


    I bet you if he said that the Lisbon Treaty was brilliant, you would be giving him high praise.
    Yes because we would agree with him and his article might be a bit more grounded in reality than it is.
    Tbh I would much prefer to hear his take on things than from some random posters here who know it all.;)
    Er...yes because he's telling you what you want to hear.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 10,079 Mod ✭✭✭✭marco_polo


    Or a source in which Intel either implicitly or explictly threatend to leave Ireland?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 61 ✭✭rebelmind


    marco_polo wrote: »
    Or a source in which Intel either implicitly or explictly threatend to leave Ireland?

    A source?
    This is'nt necessarily a jounalistic question.
    The 'source' should be your own street-smarts.
    Use your noggin for pity's sake.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 181 ✭✭Tarobot


    rebelmind wrote: »
    A source?
    This is necessarily a jounalistic question.
    The 'source' should be your own street-smarts.
    Use your noggin for pity's sake.
    Are you serious? 'noggin and 'street-smarts' are now replacing hard facts?

    This forum really depresses me sometimes.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 14,277 ✭✭✭✭Rb


    Tarobot wrote: »
    Are you serious? 'noggin and 'street-smarts' are now replacing hard facts?

    This forum really depresses me sometimes.
    If there's one crucial flaw to the entire No side it is the absence of any hard facts.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    From the outset, the Euro federalists were outraged that little Ireland had dared to reject Lisbon.

    - Tom McGurk
    A federal Europe is a pretty good idea..

    - Declan Ganley
    In these depressing days, we have moved from Europeanisation, to some form of Euro-colonisation as those who dare to reject the Euro federalisation agenda are buried under a vast and expensive campaign that has sought to frighten and undermine the electorate.

    - Tom McGurk
    Like the creaking analog telephone systems of earlier decades, Europe’s system of nationally structured political parties has become a legacy system. You can tweak and push the system harder, you can add new parts, but what lies underneath can no longer deliver the performance required of it. The old “analog system” must be discarded: European politics needs to go digital.

    - Declan Ganley
    This is ultimately about a United States of Europe emerging, eventually, as a significant world power beside the Chinas and the Indias of the future. Its weapons will be unbridled market forces allied with multiculturalism to ensure cheap labour markets, and its ethos will be secular and neo-liberal.

    - Tom McGurk
    A United States of Europe, structured properly, could benefit Europeans and the world.

    - Declan Ganley
    Above all, as we can now see, it eschews democracy - local or national - seeking to create instead a type of ‘euro-panocracy’ in which, not unlike the old Soviet system, the voters are never limited, just the options they can vote for.

    - Tom McGurk
    It is time for the creation of new, truly pan-European political organizations...Similarly, in the absence of mainstream, truly European political parties, the European political scene has become the plaything of special interest groups with no broader European vision. New parties and organizations could address Europe’s needs at the levels where most of the decisions affecting us are, or should be, made: the macro level in Europe, our broader community, and at the most local level within the regions of Europe’s states.

    - Declan Ganley

    http://www.fpri.org/ww/0405.200312.ganley.euconstitution.html

    Either Tom McGurk has no idea what is in the Treaty or he has no idea why Ganley/Libertas are so copperfastened in their opposition to Lisbon. The very outcomes McGurk fears from Lisbon is what Declan Ganley aspires to. Now, again, if Lisbon would result in what McGurk is saying it will, why would Ganley campaign against it :confused::confused::confused::confused:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 695 ✭✭✭RealityCheck


    Rb wrote: »
    If there's one crucial flaw to the entire No side it is the absence of any hard facts.

    Thats the flaw of the entire Lisbon debate, Yes and No.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 113 ✭✭moondogspot


    All Tom McGurk did was write an article. It's amazing the amount of raw nerves it has hit.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,435 ✭✭✭ilovelamp2000


    prinz wrote: »
    As soon as I got to bit about "Euro federalists" I knew he was talking through his ar*e rubbish. Typical, looks like he knows as much about politics as he does about rugby, and that's not saying a lot.


    Interesting that he should mention "celebrities" coming out on the yes side for 15 minutes of fame. What his background in European politics?

    Wow.

    This is incredibly myopic.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,957 ✭✭✭The Volt


    All Tom McGurk did was write an article. It's amazing the amount of raw nerves it has hit.
    It's amazing the godlike status he's acquired on the no side already


  • Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    rebelmind wrote: »
    A source?
    This is'nt necessarily a jounalistic question.
    The 'source' should be your own street-smarts.
    Use your noggin for pity's sake.

    So Multi Nationals will leave Ireland if there is a No?

    So there is economic consequences to voting No?

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 695 ✭✭✭RealityCheck


    prinz wrote: »



    Either Tom McGurk has no idea what is in the Treaty or he has no idea why Ganley/Libertas are so copperfastened in their opposition to Lisbon. The very outcomes McGurk fears from Lisbon is what Declan Ganley aspires to. Now, again, if Lisbon would result in what McGurk is saying it will, why would Ganley campaign against it :confused::confused::confused::confused:

    I think you will find that Ganley and McGurk are two different people with two different opinions and agendas.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 14,277 ✭✭✭✭Rb


    Thats the flaw of the entire Lisbon debate, Yes and No.
    No sorry, the Yes side here have presented facts as benefits to voting yes, quoting from the text. See Sink's excellent post for a perfect example.

    The No posters here have yet to provide anything of the sort.

    Yes, the posters by the Yes side aren't the most factual, however they're a damn sight better than the malicious, disgusting lies that are on the posters of the No side.

    Don't even try to equate the two campaigns, overall the Yes side has came out of this like shining beacons of Democracy.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 14,277 ✭✭✭✭Rb


    All Tom McGurk did was write an article. It's amazing the amount of raw nerves it has hit.
    How are we being bullied?

    If you're going to make a statement then at least have some ability to back it up. It's hilarious that you've dodged the question twice already.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    prinz wrote: »
    Declan Ganley vs Tom McGurk:

    bravo, best post of the day

    :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    Rosco1982 wrote: »
    Wow.
    This is incredibly myopic.

    How so? Nothing in that article is based in reality.
    I think you will find that Ganley and McGurk are two different people with two different opinions and agendas.

    Yes they are. But one of them has to be wrong. Ganley wants a United States of Europe and campaigns against Lisbon.... McGurk campaigns against Lisbon because he feels it will result in a United States of Lisbon.... they can't both be right.:confused:


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  • Registered Users Posts: 19,608 ✭✭✭✭sceptre


    rebelmind wrote: »
    A source?
    This is'nt necessarily a jounalistic question.
    The 'source' should be your own street-smarts.
    Use your noggin for pity's sake.
    I'm afraid that counts for precisely nothing in the reality universe. The trouble with street-smarts is that those in the street so seldom appear to have any of them.


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