Why no cycle lanes along luas tracks?

BostonB · 15-09-2009 11:37PM #1

Why did they not build properly seperated cycle lanes along side the luas tracks? Would have given us a great cycle route up and down the quays, avoid the dangerous south quays. Probably lots of other places aswell. Was it deemed too dangerous having cyclist near the luas?

petethedrummer · 15-09-2009 11:56PM

Because its Ireland.

Single Malt · 16-09-2009 12:23AM

Bike wheels and LUAS tracks love each other so much one bends the other backwards

BostonB · 16-09-2009 01:41AM

Single Malt wrote: »

Bike wheels and LUAS tracks love each other so much one bends the other backwards

along not on

Victor · 16-09-2009 01:46AM

Because there isn't sufficient space at a lot of points.

starbelgrade · 16-09-2009 01:46AM

petethedrummer wrote: »

Because its Ireland.

Yep - we live in a Mammy state.

In Holland you can cycle on, over & across tram lines.

And if you wear a helmet, the police shoot you for looking stupid.

BostonB · 16-09-2009 03:20AM

Victor wrote: »

Because there isn't sufficient space at a lot of points.

They found space for two trains side by side.

ednwireland · 16-09-2009 10:14AM

cos it cost 6 gazillion euros and it would have cost another 6 to put cycle paths next to it

DePurpereWolf · 16-09-2009 10:38AM

starbelgrade wrote: »

Yep - we live in a Mammy state.

In Holland you can cycle on, over & across tram lines.

And if you wear a helmet, the police shoot you for looking stupid.

There is no such country, it's called the Netherlands.

DePurpereWolf · 16-09-2009 10:40AM

ednwireland wrote: »

cos it cost 6 gazillion euros and it would have cost another 6 to put cycle paths next to it

I'd say 6 euro wouldn't make much difference on 6 gazillion. I would have paid the 6 euro out of pocket if they had asked.

tomasrojo · 16-09-2009 11:09AM

The Cycle Review carried out by Transport Initiatives LLP for Dublin City Council covered this topic.

The commitment to public transport provision in Dublin is to be
congratulated but it was disappointing to find that the introduction of the
LUAS has not only resulted in the cycle-unfriendly gyratory systems but
also the sterilisation of routes that would otherwise have given cyclists
advantage through accessibility and permeability in a virtually traffic
free environment. Many cyclists were observed ignoring the
requirement to keep away from these areas, and ensuring compliance s probably impossible, so it is regrettable that cyclists and trams are
not allowed to mix in the same way as in many other cities in Europe.

I can't find it online anymore, but I have the PDF, if anyone finds themselves irresistibly drawn to this subject.

tomasrojo · 16-09-2009 11:15AM

I think the best solution would be to put a smooth surface between the tracks (that is, the part that is directly under the Luas, which is currently a rather uncomfortably cobbling effect) and allow cyclists to travel along the line itself.

Some signalling would be needed at junctions, obviously, and there would have to be an understanding that when the Luas is coming, you get out of the way.

The usual caveats about crossing the tracks at 90 degrees would apply too, of course.

VERYinterested · 16-09-2009 11:53AM

It would have been a good idea alright if there was sufficient money and foresight. I seem to remember (back in 2002) looking at the Luas plans for the Green line and there was a provision for a cycle track. I bet pedestrians would also have used them and then give us cyclists evils for using them, like they do on designated cycle paths. (The bit painted pink is ours, you guys use the rest of the ample footpath, please)

km991148 · 16-09-2009 11:57AM

DePurpereWolf wrote: »

There is no such country, it's called the Netherlands.

No one said Holland was a country; Poster could have been talking about the region?

Captain Chaos · 16-09-2009 12:02PM

tomasrojo wrote: »

I think the best solution would be to put a smooth surface between the tracks (that is, the part that is directly under the Luas, which is currently a rather uncomfortably cobbling effect) and allow cyclists to travel along the line itself.

I have seen this first hand and with your average cyclist in this country and their attention spans and awareness it won't work. I was on a red line luas one day on a rear facing seat. There was a cyclist slip streaming behind the luas for a while, then the luas had to perform an emergency stop as a Dublin Bus just pulled out in front, the luas was doing a fair good speed and stopped almost on the spot, the cyclist was going so fast and close to the tram, he ending up crashing into the back of us. The driver 40 metres away had no way of know what had happened, most commuters didn't see what happened and were all looking at the bus that near cause a major collision.

In my view from what I see of cyclists day in day out in the city centre they should not be allowed anywhere near luas tracks, the amount I have seen fall off their bikes because of the wheels getting jammed in the rail grooves is laughable.

Overall they need to pay far more attention and have a hell of alot more cope on and foresight.

tomasrojo · 16-09-2009 12:06PM

I used to cycle in Basel along the tram tracks. Same problem with having to cross the tracks at 90 degrees (not just to avoid catching the wheel; they are extremely slippery when it's raining). But it worked fine. And plenty of people did it every day.

Common sense applies, of course. You don't slipstream the tram; you keep an adequate braking distance between you and the tram.

tomasrojo · 16-09-2009 12:09PM

Also, they already implicitly condone cyclists cycling along the track; section of the Luas track are on the road, where any vehicle can follow it. The tram-exclusive sections are classified as such to keep cars out so that the Luas can run on time, not for safety reasons.

zynaps · 16-09-2009 02:17PM

The first time I ever encountered LUAS tracks on my bike, before the trams were actually in service, I slipped both wheels into one of the tracks while looking over my left shoulder for a gap to merge into traffic (after coming down the fun little spiral slope from the old college of music on Adelaide Road). I'd incorrectly assumed that it was too small for my wheel to slip in, and before I could do anything the front wheel got bounced out and up about 3 feet in the air, followed by the back wheel. Landed painfully on the narrow end of my saddle, castrati style.
About a year later, my girlfriend got dumped onto the road while cycling on the tracks in the dark :P

Personally I stay away from riding parallel to the things, since it's quite easy for me to drift a little left or right as I'm observing over either shoulder, and slipping into a track is guaranteed pain. Plus I don't live or work anywhere nearby, so...
Certainly wouldn't ride close behind a tram either, jeeez. People do some odd things on bikes.

Jawgap · 16-09-2009 03:11PM

zynaps wrote: »

The first time I ever encountered LUAS tracks on my bike, before the trams were actually in service, I slipped both wheels into one of the tracks while looking over my left shoulder for a gap to merge into traffic (after coming down the fun little spiral slope from the old college of music on Adelaide Road). I'd incorrectly assumed that it was too small for my wheel to slip in, and before I could do anything the front wheel got bounced out and up about 3 feet in the air, followed by the back wheel. Landed painfully on the narrow end of my saddle, castrati style.
About a year later, my girlfriend got dumped onto the road while cycling on the tracks in the dark :P

Personally I stay away from riding parallel to the things, since it's quite easy for me to drift a little left or right as I'm observing over either shoulder, and slipping into a track is guaranteed pain. Plus I don't live or work anywhere nearby, so...
Certainly wouldn't ride close behind a tram either, jeeez. People do some odd things on bikes.

been there / done that - except I was on my old mountain bike. there were lots of warnings not to cycle close and parallel to the tracks and one day while cycling along I thought "there's no way a mountain bike tyre would fit in there......."

So I tried it and it did - bashed my shoulder, my wheel and my ego pretty severely!!!

zynaps · 16-09-2009 03:13PM

Jawgap wrote: »

So I tried it and it did - bashed my shoulder, my wheel and my ego pretty severely!!!

Good to know I'm not the only plank out there

tomasrojo · 16-09-2009 03:18PM

I would say that there's a stretch of Luas track I cycle along frequently. If you keep right in the middle of the tracks (centered where the Luas would be), you are a comfortable distance from tracks with no risk of catching your wheel or slipping on the tracks. When you want to turn off, you just carefully swing across at as close to 90 degrees as you can.

dudara · 16-09-2009 03:22PM

tomasrojo wrote: »

I think the best solution would be to put a smooth surface between the tracks (that is, the part that is directly under the Luas, which is currently a rather uncomfortably cobbling effect) and allow cyclists to travel along the line itself.

Some signalling would be needed at junctions, obviously, and there would have to be an understanding that when the Luas is coming, you get out of the way.

The usual caveats about crossing the tracks at 90 degrees would apply too, of course.

With all due respect, you do know that this is Ireland? Such a method would rely on general common sense and behaviour of which the vast amount of the Irish population is incapable. It reminds me of when the Luas was introduced and we heard about a large amount of fender-benders as Irish drivers attempted to run the red lights at Luas tracks.

In theory, I do agree with you. The intermingling of cycling and luas tracks makes a great deal of sense.

zynaps · 16-09-2009 03:29PM

tomasrojo wrote: »

I think the best solution would be to put a smooth surface between the tracks (that is, the part that is directly under the Luas, which is currently a rather uncomfortably cobbling effect) and allow cyclists to travel along the line itself.

What if there was a gentle dip in the centre of this surface? That might help keep the bike from drifting to one side in the dark or while the rider is busy looking ahead (or behind) for an approaching Luas?

tomasrojo · 16-09-2009 03:31PM

dudara wrote: »

It reminds me of when the Luas was introduced and we heard about a large amount of fender-benders as Irish drivers attempted to run the red lights at Luas tracks.

That was bizarre all right, though not surprising. They don't seem to do it anymore though. Now a Luas junction is a disciplined junction!

dudara wrote: »

In theory, I do agree with you. The intermingling of cycling and luas tracks makes a great deal of sense.

Maybe I'm being a bit optimistic all right.

tomasrojo · 16-09-2009 03:33PM

zynaps wrote: »

What if there was a gentle dip in the centre of this surface? That might help keep the bike from drifting to one side in the dark or while the rider is busy looking ahead (or behind) for an approaching Luas?

That's an interesting idea. Kind of self-correcting.

alfalad · 16-09-2009 03:45PM

zynaps wrote: »

What if there was a gentle dip in the centre of this surface? That might help keep the bike from drifting to one side in the dark or while the rider is busy looking ahead (or behind) for an approaching Luas?

We live in Ireland where we get a large amount of rain, this dip would nearly always have lying water in it therefore you would be cycling through a puddle constantly.

That wouldn't be nice!

dudara · 16-09-2009 03:50PM

tomasrojo wrote: »

That was bizarre all right, though not surprising. They don't seem to do it anymore though. Now a Luas junction is a disciplined junction!

Not any more - a Luas tram has derailed on O'Connell Street after colliding with a bus.

tomasrojo · 16-09-2009 03:58PM

That looks really bad.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0916/luas.html

zynaps · 16-09-2009 04:03PM

alfalad wrote: »

We live in Ireland where we get a large amount of rain, this dip would nearly always have lying water in it therefore you would be cycling through a puddle constantly.

That wouldn't be nice!

Oops, yeah, forgot this was Ireland

Spose you could set up a drain system but... yeah.

zeramiss · 16-09-2009 04:20PM

well, it would be too dangerous to put cycle lane just besides luas running.

tomasrojo · 16-09-2009 04:25PM

What the Transport Initiatives Report suggested was just letting cyclists use the streets the Luas used. Don't think the author of the report specifically had cycle lanes in mind as such. I guess he was projecting a level of common sense that people on this thread (possibly correctly) find lacking in Irish people generally.

Why no cycle lanes along luas tracks?

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