Cyprus vs. Republic of Ireland - 05/09/09 [mod warning post #293]

CHD · 06-09-2009 08:02PM

dogpile wrote: »

International management is a relatively short career nowadays, the days of someone being in charge for as long as Charlton was for example are over.....give it to Brady or Tardelli if you don't want too much change

Tardelli would be great, If Trap maybe retires (After renewal) and Tardelli goes out to do his own thing then just maybe....

Tyranax · 06-09-2009 08:03PM

Well then The Rooster, what happened the last time that we played Andy Reid in central midfield against Cyprus?

Hank Scorpio · 06-09-2009 08:21PM

Tyranax wrote: »

Well then The Rooster, what happened the last time that we played Andy Reid in central midfield against Cyprus?

edit'

Misread what you meant

Idbatterim · 06-09-2009 08:30PM

"If things were ´normal´ we would´ve beaten italy in bari(as we deserved to) and italy should´ve lost to cyprus(cyprus were all over italy) and italy beat georgia by 2 own goals." that comment was taken from youtube, following a video of the highlights of the match. There is talk ireland have been lucky through out the group, but when you look at things, the Italians have probably been more fortunate, we are no great shakes, but the Italians arent up to much either in all honesty. Its hardly like when the Dutch came to Dublin in 2001. You can but help think that had we a proper central midfield, that a first place finnish in the group would have almost been a formality!

Tyranax · 06-09-2009 08:36PM

Dunphy said during the first game's coverage on RTE about the group, that if we had conviction, chose the right personnell and did our jobs, that first was eminently possible. He's proven to have been right. As Idbatterim has just said, the size of the task in October isn't anywhere near the size that it was against the Dutch. Two wins against Bulgaria and we would be nearly sure of finishing top. Italy have had some outrageous luck themselves. This is a very, very ordinary group. All the more infuriating if we don't make it, because this group was winnable.

Idbatterim · 06-09-2009 08:40PM

if you take alook at this link from Fifa.com, there have been no run away games, bulgaria will take on cyprus away on october 10th, that game will be far from a formality with 2 of their best players back and maybe their keeper who was injured. Also their last game is against georgia, who lost to italy yesterday by 2 goals, boths OG's!

http://www.fifa.com/worldcup/preliminaries/europe/matches/group=250479/index.html

also as dunphy has said, the italian side currently is very poor, given thier normal pedigree!

surely a draw is the best result for us on wednesday?

dogpile · 06-09-2009 08:51PM

Idbatterim wrote: »

if you take alook at this link from Fifa.com, there have been no run away games, bulgaria will take on cyprus away on october 10th, that game will be far from a formality with 2 of their best players back and maybe their keeper who was injured. Also their last game is against georgia, who lost to italy yesterday by 2 goals, boths OG's!

http://www.fifa.com/worldcup/preliminaries/europe/matches/group=250479/index.html

also as dunphy has said, the italian side currently is very poor, given thier normal pedigree!

I'd pretty much write off Bulgaria at this stage, finishing top 2 is a formality(playoffs concern for another day)...but it's the manner in how we got there, expected so much from Trappatoni and for me he's a big let down...as an example from last night when Keane scored the winner I couldn't muster a reaction because I'd been so numbed by the previous 80mins, it can and should be so much better

romah · 06-09-2009 09:29PM

Good result ..last night ..but

I heard that a number of players have gone back to their clubs and wont be in Limerick this week

Richard Dunne
Shay Given
Robbie Keane
Stephen Hunt

What will the team for the friendly against South Africa be like..??

nollaig · 06-09-2009 11:25PM

It does seem bizarre that Folan does not start when all they are going to do is hoof the ball up. Makes even less sense not to have Delap not on the squad. These contradictions are why people are frustrated with Trapatoni

rossie1977 · 07-09-2009 12:36AM

Tyranax wrote: »

This is a very, very ordinary group. All the more infuriating if we don't make it, because this group was winnable.

it might be an ordinary group but there is no cannon fodder like many other groups (San Marino, Liechtenstein, Armenia, malta, Kazakhstan, Andorra)

winning the group was always going to mean having to win basically all your matches or at least beating italy twice (which is a tough ask in any campaign), italy have only dropped 4 points sofar and 2 of those were against ireland, just to sum up how poorly they are playing

its like the premiership last year, utd were playing meh, they still were winning every game 1-0 which means nobody could get near them

PCros · 07-09-2009 08:42AM

romah wrote: »

What will the team for the friendly against South Africa be like..??

Goalkeepers: Keiren Westwood, Joe Murphy.

Defenders: John O'Shea, Stephen Kelly, Eddie Nolan, Sean St. Ledger, Paul McShane, Darren O'Dea.

Midfielders: Aiden McGeady, Damien Duff, Darron Gibson, Glenn Whelan, Keith Andrews, Liam Miller, Andy Keogh, Liam Lawrence.

Strikers: Kevin Doyle, Caleb Folan, Shane Long, Leon Best.

Live on Sky Sports 2

Dublin_Gunner · 07-09-2009 08:58AM

PCros wrote: »

Goalkeepers: Keiren Westwood, Joe Murphy.

Defenders: John O'Shea, Stephen Kelly, Eddie Nolan, Sean St. Ledger, Paul McShane, Darren O'Dea.

Midfielders: Aiden McGeady, Damien Duff, Darron Gibson, Glenn Whelan, Keith Andrews, Liam Miller, Andy Keogh, Liam Lawrence.

Strikers: Kevin Doyle, Caleb Folan, Shane Long, Leon Best.

Live on Sky Sports 2

Pretty pointless friendly IMO. No point having one at this stage without a, er 'full' strength squad.

We seriously need to sort out the midfield. Seriously. Could we not just start a campaign to get Andy Reid & Lee Carsley back into the fold??

Idbatterim - surely a Bulgaria win is the best result for us

PCros · 07-09-2009 09:16AM

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

Pretty pointless friendly IMO. No point having one at this stage without a, er 'full' strength squad.

We seriously need to sort out the midfield. Seriously. Could we not just start a campaign to get Andy Reid & Lee Carsley back into the fold??

Idbatterim - surely a Bulgaria win is the best result for us

Agree with Andy Reid but Carsley is a 35 year old defensive midfielder, why exactly would we want that?

orourkeda · 07-09-2009 09:19AM

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

Pretty pointless friendly IMO. No point having one at this stage without a, er 'full' strength squad.

We seriously need to sort out the midfield. Seriously. Could we not just start a campaign to get Andy Reid & Lee Carsley back into the fold??

Idbatterim - surely a Bulgaria win is the best result for us

Do you not think there's been enough talk about Andy Reid

Dublin_Gunner · 07-09-2009 10:12AM

PCros wrote: »

Agree with Andy Reid but Carsley is a 35 year old defensive midfielder, why exactly would we want that?

Eh, because he's a lot better than the donkey's we have playing there at the minute.

orourkeda wrote: »

Do you not think there's been enough talk about Andy Reid

No. And we still need him in there.

Do you not think there's been enough talk about how absolutely shockingly crap our midfield currently is?

PCros · 07-09-2009 10:43AM

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

Eh, because he's a lot better than the donkey's we have playing there at the minute.

Yeah maybe Carsley 3 or 4 years ago when he last played for Ireland might have been some use but I wouldn't want him near the squad now.

LuckyLloyd · 07-09-2009 10:56AM

There's a lot of talk about the midfield being poor, so what? As fans we like to think we know a whole lot more about the game than we actually do.

Carsley has a better case for inclusion in the squad at this point in time than Andy Reid. He is starting week in and week out for Birmingham - having destroyed the Championship last year he is now holding his own in the Premiership. He dropped down to the Championship level for family reasons, he was still considered more than good enough to start at the highest level. He has tons of experience, will be available next summer, fits the system Trapp is implementing (two defensively capable players who will sit and compete infront of the back four), and would be an instant upgrade over either Andrews or Whelan. Finally, he would probably relish a shot at Pirlo and the likes in Croke Park with limited time left in his career.

Ultimately, his non - selection perturbs me a lot more than Reid because we can be 100% certain that he would come in and do the job in the current system no questions asked. And that he won't be around long term doesn't seem relevant to me. He would be able to see out the remainder of this campaign.

If Carsley had played on Saturday we would have looked better, because he would win more ball and protect the back four more capably than either of the two midfielders we did start. Carsley isn't going to wow you with his creativity in the opposition third, but by creating a platform in the middle of the park (winning it, keeping it) he would give everyone else on the ball more time and space when they have it.

We go round and round in circles about Reid, but his inclusion would require a change to the system currently employed, some shifting about of personnel, and potential strife given the attention around his exclusion from the squad and some of the things he has said in the press about that exclusion. Carsley presents no such issues. Bring him in.

Then bring in Delap aswell as another experienced player who would provide you with a weapon the Folan option could thrive off. If Trapp is making selection mistakes, Reid is a long way from the most obvious of them.

Dublin_Gunner · 07-09-2009 11:26AM

PCros wrote: »

Yeah maybe Carsley 3 or 4 years ago when he last played for Ireland might have been some use but I wouldn't want him near the squad now.

Carsley, even now, is surely a MUCH better option that Andrews / Gibson / Whelan.

He's got the experience, the toughness, and the match practice. Whelan can't even get a game for crying out loud.

I'd be a lot happier seeing a stopper like Carsley in the centre of the park, if needs be, alongside Andrews.

leninbenjamin · 07-09-2009 11:38AM

ScienceNerd wrote: »

Agree with this. Would be a shame though 'cause he would more than likely displace Doyle, who I really like as a footballer. But if we're going to play ugly football, we should play ugly footballers (not physically of course )

actually, I was thinking about this. We have three decent left wingers in the squad, none of whom can cross from the right. So why not do this:

Whelan---Andrews

Keane>>>

Duff

Folan

Doyle

with Keane given licence to get more central to pounce on those knock-downs when we have the ball.

And considering, O'Shea is our best right footed crosser at the moment, having Keane tuck central will give him a bit more space going forward to get some crosses in.

It makes us a bit more vulnerable on the right i know, but neither Hunt, McGeady or Duff can play the position properly anyway, and are like headless chickens when it comes to covering O'Shea, so we don't lose a huge amount.

As a sidenote, is there any possibility of Stephen Reid returning soon? I haven't heard a single thing mentioned about him lately.

Johnny Utah · 07-09-2009 11:40AM

leninbenjamin wrote: »

actually, I was thinking about this. We have three decent left wingers in the squad, none of whom can cross from the right. So why not do this:
Whelan---Andrews
Keane>>>
Duff
Folan
Doyle

with Keane given licence to get more central to pounce on those knock-downs when we have the ball.

And considering, O'Shea is our best right footed crosser at the moment, having Keane tuck central will give him a bit more space going forward to get some crosses in.

It makes us a bit more vulnerable on the right i know, but neither Hunt, McGeady or Duff can play the position properly anyway, and are like headless chickens when it comes to covering O'Shea, so we don't lose a huge amount.

As a sidenote, is there any possibility of Stephen Reid returning soon? I haven't heard a single thing mentioned about him lately.

Duff crossed from the right pretty okay on Saturday, I think

Dublin_Gunner · 07-09-2009 11:46AM

leninbenjamin wrote: »

actually, I was thinking about this. We have three decent left wingers in the squad, none of whom can cross from the right. So why not do this:
Whelan---Andrews
Keane>>>
Duff
Folan
Doyle

with Keane given licence to get more central to pounce on those knock-downs when we have the ball.

And considering, O'Shea is our best right footed crosser at the moment, having Keane tuck central will give him a bit more space going forward to get some crosses in.

It makes us a bit more vulnerable on the right i know, but neither Hunt, McGeady or Duff can play the position properly anyway, and are like headless chickens when it comes to covering O'Shea, so we don't lose a huge amount.

As a sidenote, is there any possibility of Stephen Reid returning soon? I haven't heard a single thing mentioned about him lately.

I'm sorry, but I'd much rather Duff / Hunt / McGeady down the right instead of Keane.

Keane is a forward, a striker, end of, he should be played in no other position for us IMO.

Folan should come in ahead of Keane or Doyle if he's to play. Arguably, we need Folan & Keane/Doyle with such a defensive midfield. He can hold the ball up, bring players into the game, put himself about a bit.

As was said, if we're going to play ugly football, play the ugly style players. But I would leave the wings to the wingers.

Up front isn't where we have problems TBH - the middle needs to be sorted out, ASAP before the Italy game.

leninbenjamin · 07-09-2009 11:49AM

Johnny Utah wrote: »

Duff crossed from the right pretty okay on Saturday, I think

how many crosses did Duff make from the right though in his half there? maybe I'm raving, but i think that was the only decent one he hit.

McGeady doesn't cross from the right, Hunt can't either. Duff's left foot forces him inside and headlong into fullbacks a lot, and given Duff's our best LW by a country mile, I'd much rather see him on the left anyway.

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

Up front isn't where we have problems TBH - the middle needs to be sorted out, ASAP before the Italy game.

I disagree, aside from the midfield, one of the biggest problems this side faces is an ability to retain the ball up front. Given that we have very little options for the midfield, the better choice would be to strengthen the fronts ability to retain the ball. Doyle's ok at getting onto those long balls, but Keanes utterly woeful, and really needs it played to his feet if he's going to be a threat outside the box. He's not half as useful in this kind of system as he is for a team who play it on the ground like Spurs.

JP Liz · 07-09-2009 11:51AM

good result

whatawaster · 07-09-2009 11:52AM

as another poster said, if we're going to play like we are then Delap and Folan should always start.

Y2J_MUFC · 07-09-2009 12:20PM

leninbenjamin wrote: »

how many crosses did Duff make from the right though in his half there? maybe I'm raving, but i think that was the only decent one he hit.

Wasn't one was more than anybody else managed?

So, you want to take a striker out of his most dangerous position and put him on the right wing, instead of a player who provided the cross for the winner, and leave both McGeady and Hunt out completely who you've said are decent players, but will quite happily leave Whelan and Andrews in there?

No deal.

The Rooster · 07-09-2009 12:32PM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Carsley has a better case for inclusion in the squad at this point in time than Andy Reid. He is starting week in and week out for Birmingham - having destroyed the Championship last year he is now holding his own in the Premiership.

Dublin Gunner wrote:

Whelan can't even get a game for crying out loud.

Do yis have a clue what you are talking about, or do you just make it up as you go along???

Whelan is a regular for Stoke. He has started their last 3 league games.

Carsley is in and out for Birmingham. He played two league matches so far this season (both times taken off with 15 to 20 minutes to go) and twice was a sub (both times unused). So far this season, McLeish has employed two different formations:
4-5-1 when he plays real defensive
4-4-2 when he thinks he has a chance of winning

When he's moved to 4-4-2, Carsley has been the one to be sacrificed.

Anyone calling for Lee Carsley to be starting for Ireland has not seen him play for about 2 years.

Dublin_Gunner · 07-09-2009 12:35PM

leninbenjamin wrote: »

I disagree, aside from the midfield, one of the biggest problems this side faces is an ability to retain the ball up front. Given that we have very little options for the midfield, the better choice would be to strengthen the fronts ability to retain the ball. Doyle's ok at getting onto those long balls, but Keanes utterly woeful, and really needs it played to his feet if he's going to be a threat outside the box. He's not half as useful in this kind of system as he is for a team who play it on the ground like Spurs.

But thats exactly my point. How can a forward hold the ball up, when there's no midfield coming to support? Thats our problem, not up front.

Doyle & Keane aren't players to hold up the ball (which is why I've been saying Folan should start), so they shouldn't be played in that role. The reason the ball is hoofed up to them, is because there's no-one creative in the middle of the park who can get their foot on the ball and pick out a pass.

And when it is hoofed up to them, and they try to hold it up - there is absolutely NO support coming from midfield - apart from the one time Keane knocked it down to Whelan, who was unlucky not to score, only for a fantastic save by the 'Keeper.

leninbenjamin · 07-09-2009 12:43PM

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

But thats exactly my point. How can a forward hold the ball up, when there's no midfield coming to support? Thats our problem, not up front.

true, but given the state of our current squad, all we can really do is try and compensate elsewhere for the lack of creativity in midfield.

Lord Trollington · 07-09-2009 12:48PM

I have always like 3-5-3 formation when you have limited players, you can crown the middle and stop the supply forward!!

Given
O Shea----Dunne----Ledger

S.Reid----Carsley

Duff

Hunt
McGeady
Keane

Doyle

eoin99 · 07-09-2009 12:53PM

whycliff wrote: »

I have always like 3-5-3 formation when you have limited players, you can crown the middle and stop the supply forward!!

Given
O Shea----Dunne----Ledger

S.Reid----Carsley

Duff
Hunt
McGeady
Keane
Doyle

Sacrifice Given for an extra man in midfield?

Cyprus vs. Republic of Ireland - 05/09/09 [mod warning post #293]

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