Lisbon vote October 2nd - How do you intend to vote?

ranmac wrote: »

It's te "sexual orientation" inclusion that I am making reference to. Have a look at The Irish Society for Christian Civilisation wbsite which states, inter alia,

Our Lord Jesus Christ commanded: “Seek ye first the Kingdom of God and His justice, and everything else shall be added on to you.” In contrast to the Divine commandment, if the Treaty of Lisbon is ratified by Irish Catholics:

• The E.U. will ignore God and the Christian roots of Europe and will create a new European identity based on radical secularism and atheistic philosophies. We do not want our children to grow up in an Ireland without God!
• The E.U. will impose a relativistic and evolving idea of human rights, contrary to Catholic moral teaching. We do not want the relativisation of the principles that we will pass on to our children and grandchildren!
• The E.U. will considerably restrict the protection of human life and will facilitate abortion, euthanasia, and embryo experimentation. We do not want the mass murder of innocents being promoted throughout Europe!
• The E.U. will destroy the family by dissociating it from marriage between one man and one woman. Our children have the right to live in a normal home, in accordance with Catholic principles!
• The E.U. will impose excessive limits on the right of the parents to educate their children in accordance with their convictions. The freedom to pass on the Faith is a legacy that can never be challenged in Catholic Ireland!
• The E.U. will recognise, for the first time in the history of international treaties, “sexual orientation” as a basis for non-discrimination, opening the way for homosexual marriage and adoption of children by homosexuals. If today promiscuity and immorality already invade our homes and ruin the education of our children, what will it be like when these kinds of practices are imposed on us?

The irony of it for me is that as an extreme social liberal I have absolutely no respect whatsoever for moral conservatism. I want to live in a country in which the church is completely separate from the state and personal morality such as homosexuality and promiscuity is simply not an issue which is in any way regulated by the government. However, I also believe that such a social revolution must come from the majority will of the people and not forced upon us by an outside body. Social freedom is the second most fundamental aspect of my political beliefs, but unfortunately the first is democracy. If the majority do not agree with me, so be it. I won't vote for a treaty which does indeed support social freedom if it does so by ignoring democracy.

EDIT: Just to make it clear: I am a Catholic, but I don't believe that I or anyone else has the right to force others to be. I don't want to sleep around or marry another man, but it's a personal choice which affects no one other than those who willingly consent to it, and as such I don't believe anyone else has a right to make rules about it.

Spiderspeed wrote: »

I'm voting No and the No vote is very likely going to win not because o Lisbon or europe pe say but because the Irish Voting public has no chance on voting on NAMA, the forthcoming mother of all budgets, An bord Snip, the economic downturn, the 12% unemployment, the decimation of pensions, the forthcoming ax commission report, and the washout of a summer. There will be amassive protest vote. The local elections was protest vote against gov. Lisbon will be even greater. I am guesing most people who see the voting card on the day will see red and vote NO.

So we cut off our nose to spite our face. There's an incredible lack of any logic in this post. Our government are an incompetent bunch of fools but anyone who really thinks a No vote will make things any worse for Fianna Fail is in fantasy land. Fianna Fail took a serious kicking at the local and European elections and it didn't make any difference. They are screwed, they know it and will hang on till the last.

patrickthomas wrote: »

I do not now or ever have belonged to any political party now with this vote I find myself with......

No Organisation
No Funding
No Leader
NO Future

NO to Lisbon

NOthing intelligent to add?

patrickthomas wrote: »

Hilarious, you must have had a big burst of brains there, anything relevant to add, as regards the treaty (just in case you didn't know)

Got you saying NO though....he he he

Quit getting personal with other posters.

Freeborn John wrote: »

That would turn the UNSC into the League of Nations with every rogue state being able to veto action against itself.

No nation should be able to start wars with impunity and in the final analysis the only thing on earth capable of deterring the worst of them is the Great Powers acting in concert. But equally the fighting men and women of the great powers cannot be sent into battle against rogue states that threaten such conflict on the back of a qualified majority vote in which they were outvoted.

Who cares about the UN?

They could have Kim Jong Il II in charge of it for all the difference it would make.

By giving vetoes to both the major Communist and Allied nations the structure of the UN ensured its own incapacity. The fact that Russia and China boycotted the UN for a while is testament to their stupidity (as they would otherwise have avoided UN action in Korea). Even with the dismantling of Communism the world strategic view held by the respective members of the security council is somewhat polarised - making the UN's future involvement pretty much anywhere essentially impossible.

The UN doesn't make laws in my name.
The EU does.

And who cares about the EU making laws about wine lakes and butter mountains? Maybe a farmer here and there (and these are placated by better markets and subsidies).

But now the EU wishes to have complete authority over immigration and energy (with incursions into foreign policy and international security).

Bloody wonderful! Oh I am very isolationist to say that I do not want an unelected beurocrat (who may, indeed, have been sacked for corruption from his own national parliament) to speak in my time in terms of foreign relations. As Nietche said, follow somebody, anybody, for a certain period, loyally and without question. Although he might have been ironic when he said that...

ranmac wrote: »

It's te "sexual orientation" inclusion that I am making reference to. Have a look at The Irish Society for Christian Civilisation wbsite which states, inter alia,

Our Lord Jesus Christ commanded: “Seek ye first the Kingdom of God and His justice, and everything else shall be added on to you.” In contrast to the Divine commandment, if the Treaty of Lisbon is ratified by Irish Catholics:

• The E.U. will ignore God and the Christian roots of Europe and will create a new European identity based on radical secularism and atheistic philosophies. We do not want our children to grow up in an Ireland without God!
• The E.U. will impose a relativistic and evolving idea of human rights, contrary to Catholic moral teaching. We do not want the relativisation of the principles that we will pass on to our children and grandchildren!
• The E.U. will considerably restrict the protection of human life and will facilitate abortion, euthanasia, and embryo experimentation. We do not want the mass murder of innocents being promoted throughout Europe!
• The E.U. will destroy the family by dissociating it from marriage between one man and one woman. Our children have the right to live in a normal home, in accordance with Catholic principles!
• The E.U. will impose excessive limits on the right of the parents to educate their children in accordance with their convictions. The freedom to pass on the Faith is a legacy that can never be challenged in Catholic Ireland!
• The E.U. will recognise, for the first time in the history of international treaties, “sexual orientation” as a basis for non-discrimination, opening the way for homosexual marriage and adoption of children by homosexuals. If today promiscuity and immorality already invade our homes and ruin the education of our children, what will it be like when these kinds of practices are imposed on us?

How is a homosexual person meant to feel when reading this? That they will never experience marraige or are deemed inferior. Why?

"Our children have the right to live in a normal home, in accordance with Catholic principles!"

What do you mean "normal". I'm going to vote yes just from reading this intolerant pro-religious hatred. So because somebody is homosexual you want to prevent them from getting married! Please give me an adequate explaination. Why don't you keep you religion to yourself and stop broadcasting this backward hate in modern society where most people are accepting!

"We do not want our children to grow up in an Ireland without God!"

YOU do not want YOUR children to grow up in an Ireland without God! Well I'm sorry but that how it's going to be!

RandomName2 wrote: »

Maybe I'm a bit biased, being an atheist.

But to answer your first question and to try and tie it in with the religious - ahem - fervour expressed above:

A good reason to vote no would be because some of this decision making is withdrawn from national governance, which, flawed as it may be, allows us some imput. By increasing the strength of the EU, without any economic rationale, is merely to aggrandise its pseudo-statehood (with little corresponding increase in the representation of of citizens).

Which is in no way a nice sound-bite for a campaign

Mind you, if you support the increase in power for the supra-state, and like other people making decisions for you, you should probably vote yes.

See, I didn't say the word 'federalist' - oh! Dang! I just did!

Oh and by the way, voting no will in no way affect the economy. Nor will voting yes. Which is unfortunate, but a fact.

Without being in the EU we would be in a far far worse state, you only have to look at Iceland to see that

Voltwad wrote: »

Without being in the EU we would be in a far far worse state, you only have to look at Iceland to see that

Try tell Norway & Switzerland that.

therewillbe wrote: »

Was I not heard the first time! NO is NO. :mad:

Allow me to direct you to this post, a post that everyone with your mentality should be force-read.

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=61945811&postcount=155