Railway Bridge

Tango Alpha 51 · 28-08-2009 08:05PM

I presume that ivabiggon last post pertains to whether an assist chief fire officer would know that HSE NAS have that capability. I'm guessing that the answer would be no but then again & I stress i'm only guessing this is down to the fact that there appears to be animosity between the two services in Dublin for years (not necessarily between rank & file members, albeit there might be exceptions to this).

It would ultimately being an inter agency response to something like this.

Bang Bang · 28-08-2009 08:23PM

ivabiggon wrote: »

ye see bang bang theres something not many people new! so do you think a ass. chief would know that?

That I can't answer, but it's quite possible that nobody in the DFB were aware of it, maybe just the crews out there who by way of conversation at scenes or the ED's.
I know the first time I donned the flotation device and took the rope to the water's edge the attending fire crew were surprised, pleasantly I might add.

But the fact that personal flotation devices are now part of the vehicle/crew inventory, for approx two years now, should an Assistant Chief or any scene officer be aware of this as part of their remit?
We would then have to ask, Who's responsibility is to inform each service of changes of protocol, if there is a need to??

999/112 · 28-08-2009 09:53PM

Bang Bang wrote: »

But the fact that personal flotation devices are now part of the vehicle/crew inventory, for approx two years now, should an Assistant Chief or any scene officer be aware of this as part of their remit?
We would then have to ask, Who's responsibility is to inform each service of changes of protocol, if there is a need to??

Agency interaction thru training would surely help to alleviate this situation [budgets:(].
This, [I.M.O] is really the only way to address the problem. Up and down the country I know several areas where the different brigade/teams/units/agencies in those respective "patches" perform joint exercises/training maybe once or twice a year. Everybody gets to meet and work with personnel from the respective team they train with, when a multi-agency response is required everybody knows [inc. O.I.Cs] the abilities, limits and protocol's of the unit they are working alongside. A basic example is the amount of training done between R.N.L.I. Lifeboats and Coast Guard Helicopters every other week. As a result, they even get to attend each others Christmas parties:D ........... what a relationship!!!!;)

[added] Having a browse here http://www.blues-twos.com/ Shots 2 &3 on the home page are classic examples ... 4 agencies. Well done folks!

ivabiggon · 29-08-2009 12:35AM

eh? ye! sorry slip of my tongue... ass chief = assistant chief:p

Cork_Rebel · 30-08-2009 08:59AM

When was the last time all these different agencies trained together? Doesn't seem to happen too often.

Tango Alpha 51 · 30-08-2009 11:24AM

Cork_Rebel wrote: »

When was the last time all these different agencies trained together? Doesn't seem to happen too often.

It doesn't in my area anyway but then again we struggle to cover shifts on the road let alone have spare bodies for a training excercise. Unlike the Fire Service who train on a daily basis, we are too busy running calls (this is not a dig at the fire & rescue, just we don't have that luxury). One way of looking at it I suppose is that because of call volume our skills are kept up to speed on a daily basis but it would be nice to be involved in a training excercise a couple of times a year.

30-08-2009 04:35PM

Hi I am new to this forum but have been reading the informed and ill informed comments about the bridge incident in Malahide. One thing worth mentioning is that twice in the past year training exercises have taken place on Broadmeadow Estuary involving 100 personnel from Civil Defence and Howth Coast Guard. The RNLI were not involved purely as they are the primary rescue agency at sea and would have been unavailable if they were on the estuary. These exercises were overseen by senior DFB and Garda officers. 40 people were "rescued" across Broadmeadow by boats ( CD and Coast Guard ) and inflated pathway and were then transported to the designated evacuation centre at Portmarnock Leisure Centre or to Hospital as required. While this was a flood scenario it shows that a. the agencies are training together and b.the capability is there, to answer the OPs question. Incidentally there is a 6m Civil Defence RIB moored on the Marina in Malahide beside the incident. Hope this is of interest. There are photos on flickr of the exercise under Civil Defence Exercise.

reno911 · 31-08-2009 10:21AM

I was at the exercise in broadmeadow, very good exercise in deed. It was not a huge complicated exercise by any means but an excellent inter-agency exercise. And I must say (probably a lot of people will not agree) the AFS have come a long way. The last one was in April if I remember even their control was fantastic. they had what looked like a bus and very well kitted out and an excellent controller's who appeared to be in control of the whole area even had detailed information of crews on site and put that up on a board for all to see. Very impressive for a vol org considering I have seen some other vol’s couldn’t control people at the lunch table let alone out in the field. The boat unit also very well organised and very knowledgeable and professional, I would have no problem working with them. Remember CD have had DFB training with EMFR, Water awareness and I think about 20 people got certified by DFB on the pumps. While I agree they would not be called out straight away they could be a valuable resource if not for man power then for extra equipment. I have said for years that a board should be put together of officers from each agency both front line and vol and a major incident simulation once a year to get all agencies working together so front line agencies can assess the effectiveness of the vol’s and where the need to improve and how they can use the recourses effectivel. oh and when the vol's are out they always have a cuppa waiting as well

civdef · 31-08-2009 10:44AM

The MEM framework has guidance for working with vol agencies, they are included as part of exercises, so the cooperation you describe should be getting to be the norm.

http://www.mem.ie/guidancedocuments/a%20guide%20to%20working%20with%20the%20ves.pdf

BizPost · 31-08-2009 12:09PM

Perhaps there should be more training for Malahide type incident but it doesn't happen. When was the last large scale train crash type exercise in Dublin? Has there ever been one?

From the report am I right in thinking there's three levels of responders. There are frontline volunteer services like Lifeboat that mobilise very quickly somewhat like a retained fire station might. Then you have the Volunteer back up like Red Cross. Then you have the full time Guards/ Ambulance/ Fire etc.

reno911 · 31-08-2009 12:26PM

I agree with you BizPost there should be more large scale training exercises. the last train crash training I was at was about 2-3 years ago when there was 3 major incidences around the country, Train Crash in Maynooth, bus crash in Tobarcurry in Sligo(pic on front of the frame work doc) and there was a plane crash into a school some ware else. These were setup as a cross border and cross agency training. Excellent days and a lot learned from them. But as usual people set these exercises up with great visions of doing one every year but then loses interest. It’s a shame that there not continued, I know all services do continued training but it's not until you do a large scale exercise that you really see what resources are needed. I know that DFB do training in the tunnel and Dublin port but I tell you I know for a fact (because I was there) CD done several flooding exercises in broadmeadow and invited all services to take part and also done a fantastic exercise in St. Ita’s a year or 2 ago which was a plane crash, I was very impressed with CD and again invited DFB to watch and give recommendations, this is the way all agencies should be. Workings towards one common goal of an exceptional inter- agency response and feedback should be given from all agencies. One of these training exercises a year would definitely increase confidence between services abilities and result in a better working environment at a major incident

Nice_Guy_Eddie · 12-10-2009 01:01PM

I know it's a late reply but I was just reading through now. I thought I'd share this as I found it while looking for other information.

The official line on chopper response time is below. It can be much less than this but this the max time they are meant to take.

"Expected performance criteria:

Achieve launch time of 15 minutes on urgent calls from normal ground readiness between 0700 2100
Achieve a launch time of 45 minutes on urgent calls from normal ground readiness between 2100 - 0700."

Taken from: http://www.transport.ie/marine/IRCG/About_Us.asp?lang=ENG&loc=2417

Some good info on there that some of you may find interesting and educational reading.

Railway Bridge

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