Lisbon 2 The Return!

An Fear Aniar wrote: »

The EU project has already lost all credibility already by asking for a second referendum.

.

Actually Ireland lost all credibility by rejecting the treaty because they weren't bothered reading it. The French and the Dutch got the constitution renegotiated because they gave valid objections but the Irish mostly said they just didn't understand it so the EU understandably said "ehhhhh, could you have a read of it and get back to us thanks"

FutureTaoiseach wrote: »

I disagree. The French and Dutch voted no to the almost identical EU Constitution. Please do not equate Europe with its rulers. Europe is the people of Europe. Your argument is like Marie Antoinette telling the people of Paris to eat cake. We are being asked to eat cake by accepting Lisbon, despite the fact that the French and Dutch peoples rejected an almost carbon copy of it. They should try persuading their own peoples of the validity of this project before lecturing us. It is the elites who are isolated and lacking in credibility. Vive la Revolution.

I was going to correct you but I've already done it at least once in this thread and you have been corrected many many times before. Correcting you for the 158th time is not going to make you see your error so you just go on believing whatever you want to believe

FutureTaoiseach wrote: »

I disagree. The French and Dutch voted no to the almost identical EU Constitution. Please do not equate Europe with its rulers. Europe is the people of Europe. Your argument is like Marie Antoinette telling the people of Paris to eat cake. We are being asked to eat cake by accepting Lisbon, despite the fact that the French and Dutch peoples rejected an almost carbon copy of it. They should try persuading their own peoples of the validity of this project before lecturing us. It is the elites who are isolated and lacking in credibility. Vive la Revolution.

How come whenever you make a post like that you always fail to mention that some of the parts removed were part of the reason that it was rejected?

And that stuff was added in the renegotiation like the orange card system that the Dutch wanted.

You know that this happened, so please stop leaving it out. I know it doesn't suit your argument as well as simply "they rebranded it to make it easier to pass".

You have it in your sig as if it's a big slip up by 'The Elites' *dramatic music* by removing a little bit of it and changing the name and then admitting that most of it is the same.

Can't you acknowledge that the percentage of it that was changed is irrelevant once the parts that some people had a problem with were changed?

Interesting that both this poll and the one in EU forum show a slight NO majority, pretty much mirroring the last time around.

The Yes side must be ****ting themselves.

Johnnnybravo wrote: »

Excuse me now, did I say I am speaking on behalf of all NO voters??? No I did not, the us and we are the NO voters that I know awright, so g`way and have yer menopause or whatever it is at somebody else awright!

LOLZ.

Some who voted No will change their vote, some have posted on this thread. I don't want to deny their democratic right to change their mind, some do for some strange reason.

K-9 wrote: »

So vote no.

Maybe they addressed other NO voter concerns or does that not matter?

Johnnnybravo wrote: »

They did not address our concerns, and he doesnt have to justify to you or anybody else what way hes using his vote.

We might be being bullied into voting again but we wont be bloody well bullied by users on here or anywhere else into voting yes.


We voted NO so they decided to try again, some bloody democracy!

Ah, that's the initial posts.

Internetz, serious business.

More reasonable people take democracy seriously. Some voted No to get guarantees on taxation and the Commissioner. Many, knew there'd be a new vote with a better deal, so voted No.

Though, jumping up and down like a Celtic Tiger cub not getting their way is so much more fun.

K-9 wrote: »

Vote Yes because the nuts are on the no side.

AH! You speak of the volumes of sadness with which I reflect upon the Irish political establishment.

Unless of course you mean most of the Irish electorate are nutters...

But really and truly the 'no' campaigners aren't politicans. Not really. Sinn Fein and People Before Profit are the nearest things to politicians on the 'no' side. I kid you not! So politicans are in favour of Lisbon, non-politicians who happen to be involved in politics are not.

Although I did notice a Communist group in Dublin have recently pledged their support to Lisbon. Much to my satisfaction

K-9 wrote: »

And yet SF don't do well in EU Elections and Libertas failed.

A lot of the No vote is a protest vote, an anti politician vote or a cool anti establishment vote.

You are forgetting that when people goes to the polls that they have to choose from a rotten barrels of apples.

From the Last EU Commission Survey taken from the Lisbon Referendum 1 was not Anti politician vote or a cool anti establishment vote. THERE RESULTS BLOWS A HOLE IN YOUR ASSUMPTIONS!!

Just because we voted for a politician does not mean we agree with all of their decisions and views.
I have voted Fianna Fail, Fine Gael (but I do not agree on their view of Joining NATO) , Labour and green candidates in the past.
I went against their advice in how to vote in the Last Lisbon Referendum as they failed to give good reasons and failed to answer questions bout the Treaty properly and used evasion tactics with scaremongering and doom scenarios comments.

To those who smear No voters as Libertas loving, COIR hugging and Sinn Fein bombers are noting but succumb themselves and no better than those extreme groups in their narrow views.

You just cannot get any good well rounded intelligent candidate in elections these days. :mad: