Lisbon 2 The Return!

NatKingColeslaw

Sorry if you guys and gals have discussed this before but judging by the front page, here seems to be the most popular place on the site.

Are you going to vote Yes or No for the next Lisbon vote?

I'm voting No because I was lied to, being told there was no second chance, eh, which there now is. Simple really.

NatKingColeslaw

I will be voting "Not voting"

I can't fix that. I feel a spa

My name is URL

I'm not voting.

Voted No last time, nothings changed for me but I know a Yes would get Ireland out of this hole we're in faster

I'm gonna leave it up to you lot to make the right decision =p

Tar.Aldarion

Will vote yes, if I bother to vote. Prob not

My name is Mud

*awaits rabble, and RTDH claiming that Lisbon treaty will bring crab people*

Dave!

My name is Mud wrote: »

*awaits rabble, and RTDH claiming that Lisbon treaty will bring crab people*

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tV5wmDhzgY8

I'll be voting TÁ

Prof.Badass

Still worded just as dodgily as before.

Don't trust the eurocrats tbh.

ps, i'd love a USE, but it would need to be a confederacy.

If one country choses not to adopt a new law that has NOTHING to do with international relations, i do not see why they should be required to force the law upon that country.

AckwelFoley

Voted yes the first time.

Will vote yes again.

We need europe more than they need us.

DeCoR18

Will vote no. Keep Ireland soverign please.

Will not vote again in my lifetime if the yes succeeds.

xOxSinéadxOx

Won't be 18 until the 8th of october. dammmnnnn

BaconZombie

While the treaty has the self ratifying clause in article 48 I will vote NO.

DeCoR18

My name is URL wrote: »

but I know a Yes would get Ireland out of this hole we're in faster

Why do you think that?

AckwelFoley

DeCoR18 wrote: »

Will vote no. Keep Ireland soverign please.

Will not vote again in my lifetime if the yes succeeds.

I'd expect you not to be voting again.

I believe it will be passed this time around.

My favourite thing about the Lisbon treaty is the load of bollox the no side vcome out with...

"If you vote Yes to Lisbon the EU will force all Irish people to sacrafice their first child to the spagetti monster in the sky while chanting the lyrics of Beyonces crazy in Love backwards!"

Eh wha??

"Yea!! Its true!! THERES NOTHING IN THE TREATY TO SAY THIS CANT HAPPEN!!!!So it cant be ruled out"

Mr.Nice Guy

I'll be voting No. I think it's a disgrace it's being held again.

EU democracy: I may not agree with what you have to say but I'll defend to the death your right to say it but you'll keep having to vote again until I do.

thelordofcheese

my favourite part is people who know certain things that are in the treaty, and stop reasoning there, because it has a scary sounding name.

I am, of course, talking about article 48.

Lisbon is a step towards a more transparant, efficient EU, with more power for the directly elected MEPs.

i can't see why people would vote against that.

DeCoR18

snyper wrote: »

I'd expect you not to be voting again.

I believe it will be passed this time around.

My favourite thing about the Lisbon treaty is the load of bollox the no side vcome out with...

"If you vote Yes to Lisbon the EU will force all Irish people to sacrafice their first child to the spagetti monster in the sky while chanting the lyrics of Beyonces crazy in Love backwards!"

Eh wha??

"Yea!! Its true!! THERES NOTHING IN THE TREATY TO SAY THIS CANT HAPPEN!!!!So it cant be ruled out"

I suspect you're right unfortunately. Sure if Robbie Keane and Seamus Heaney are doing it!

If I had voted during Nice, I wouldn't be voting now, I'm suprised anybody voted after that as how clear do they have to make it to people that Irish democracy is a joke.

I find it interesting that you don't see the EU moving towards a superstate if not in this referendum but in the forseeable future? Or you don't care.... or even approve!

dresden8

My name is URL wrote: »

I know a Yes would get Ireland out of this hole we're in faster

How, educate me, I'm fascinated.

jumpguy

I think it's sad that people think it'll damage our sovereignity and whatnot. I'd love to know how, exactly. I remember the first vote, the yes campaign started well and I thought it'd win, but the no campaign noticably picked up, with confusing and trivial scaremongering. What exactly did the Lisbon treaty have to do with abortion and getting involved in wars? Nothing, absolutely nothing. If you want to find a reason to vote yes, please look at the actual document...I dunno if abortion is even mentioned.

Also, no matter how much people don't want to believe it, we need Europe far more. It was a huge factor in creating the original celtic tiger, and we ****ed it up with our construction bubble. I worry this country will learn it's lesson the harsh way: never bite the hand that feeds.

EDIT: To Dresdin, we need the EU to fund our national development, especially our infrastructure, incase you haven't noticed, in most of them signs on them nice, flat motorways and national routeways, there is a "This project was <insert a figure between 60-80%> funded by the EU/EU Cohesion Fund".

dresden8

DeCoR18 wrote: »

Will not vote again in my lifetime if the yes succeeds.

How will this affect them?

Only in their favour probably.

Holsten

Same as last time, no.

thomond2006

We should use electronic voting for this one, it would be apt for "The mother of all **** ups" Treaty II.

waryeye

There's one very good reason for voting no. If `democracy' means anything, which I for one doubt, the no vote last time out was a legitimate expression of the people's will.
To not accept the people's verdict and come back with the exact same treaty, not a comma changed (forget the protocol nonsense), asking for a yes vote is a complete farce.
That said, with the population running scared due to the recession brought on by a slavish adherence to `free market' principles, I fully expect a yes vote this time around.
You can fool most of the people . . . most of the time.

As Marx said the so-called `government' in western `democracies' are inevitably "the executive committee of the ruling class".
Same goes for Europe. The European Commission is where the power is concentrated. The European Parliament is like our Dail/Seanad. Basically a talking shop, there to rubber stamp decisions of the powers-that-be.

AckwelFoley

DeCoR18 wrote: »

I suspect you're right unfortunately. Sure if Robbie Keane and Seamus Heaney are doing it!

If I had voted during Nice, I wouldn't be voting now, I'm suprised anybody voted after that as how clear do they have to make it to people that Irish democracy is a joke.

I find it interesting that you don't see the EU moving towards a superstate if not in this referendum but in the forseeable future? Or you don't care.... or even approve!

Ill put it this way to you..

If we knew nothing about the treaty at all, i think the fact that the ONLY political party that are against it is those communist/terrorist cruds Sinn Fein / IRA should be the hint that YES is a positive move.

Mr.Nice Guy

jumpguy wrote: »

I think it's sad that people think it'll damage our sovereignity and whatnot. I'd love to know how, exactly. I remember the first vote, the yes campaign started well and I thought it'd win, but the no campaign noticably picked up, with confusing and trivial scaremongering. What exactly did the Lisbon treaty have to do with abortion and getting involved in wars? Nothing, absolutely nothing. If you want to find a reason to vote yes, please look at the actual document...I dunno if abortion is even mentioned.

Yes because the Yes campaign was thoughtful, informative and engaging with campaigners on hand to deal with concerns from the public in a frank and forthright manner...





As for scaremongering, I had a guy tell me I should vote Yes or Ireland would be kicked out of Europe! :eek:

The nonsense was not one-way.

snyper wrote: »

Ill put it this way to you..

If we knew nothing about the treaty at all, i think the fact that the ONLY political party that are against it is those communist/terrorist cruds Sinn Fein / IRA should be the hint that YES is a positive move.

The Socialist Party were also against it and I'd trust Joe Higgins over the likes of Brian Cowen any day personally.

DeCoR18

dresden8 wrote: »

How will this affect them?

Only in their favour probably.

Because as far as I'm concerned this vote should not be taking place and if the original result is overturned in my view there is no democracy in Ireland and I won't humilate myself by taking part in such formalitys for the Government's will in future.

thelordofcheese

ITT - people don't know what the word democracy means.

bUILDERtHEbOB

Not voting, I genuinely don't see the point anymore.

dresden8

thelordofcheese wrote: »

ITT - people don't know what the word democracy means.

Yeah, most people think it's one person one vote.

They don't realise it's one person multiple votes, until you vote the right way.

What idiots.

How representative is that?

Wagon

I voted no the first time. And now im told it was the wrong choice. So this time they can fúck off with themselves, I've stopped caring.

thelordofcheese

dresden8 wrote: »

Yeah, most people think it's one person one vote.

They don't realise it's one person multiple votes, until you vote the right way.

What idiots.

How representative is that?

Well done on proving my point.

My name is URL

dresden8 wrote: »

How, educate me, I'm fascinated.

Do some research..

It doesn't take a genius to know that Ireland is going to take longer to recover from this recession than other pro-Lisbon EU countries.

The treaty will go ahead with or without Ireland's support, its a sad fact. Other countries actually believe its the way forward.
Ireland will ultimately be written out of it if we keep voting no.

When the other participating nations decide where to put its money will it be alienated Ireland? I don't think so

I'm neither for nor against it, I don't give a **** after seeing from the last referendum that the rest of Europe will press ahead with it regardless of us. Thats why I'm not voting, and don't plan on voting again in any european referendum

Ted The Thread

thelordofcheese wrote: »

ITT - people don't know what the word democracy means.

How very Yes campaign of you.

thelordofcheese

Ted The Thread wrote: »

How very correct of you.

fix'd.

dresden8

bUILDERtHEbOB wrote: »

Not voting, I genuinely don't see the point anymore.

Then you're letting the fnckers win. Whoever your own particular fnckers might be.

Even if you'revoting wrong.

Always vote for the wrong reason, never not vote for the right reason.

The politicians will think they've got it right. Never let the pr1cks think that.

Vote the fnck!

jape

What's the story with corporation tax, if we vote Yes and pass the treaty are we still allowed have low corporate tax?

If we lose our low corporate tax rates, Intel, Pfizer, Dell, HP, Microsoft, etc will be outta here in a flash.

Surely that's a reason to vote No?

Can anyone clarify this for me, it would be the main reason for my voting on this.

Ted The Thread

thelordofcheese wrote: »

fix'd.

Your pedo bear sig makes me want to ignore your comments.

You are probably

thelordofcheese

jape wrote: »

What's the story with corporation tax, if we vote Yes and pass the treaty are we still allowed have low corporate tax?

If we lose our low corporate tax rates, Intel, Dell, HP, Microsoft, etc will be outta here in a flash.

Surely that's a reason to vote No?

Can anyone clarify this for me, it would be the main reason for my voting on this.

We still maintain the right to set our own corporation tax should lisbon be passed.

jape

dresden8 wrote: »

Then you're letting the fnckers win. Whoever your own particular fnckers might be.

Even if you'revoting wrong.

Always vote for the wrong reason, never not vote for the right reason.

The politicians will think they've got it right. Never let the pr1cks think that.

Vote the fnck!

lol reminds me of South Park, "of course you have the freedom to vote Stan, so long as you vote for my guy"

thelordofcheese

Ted The Thread wrote: »

Your pedo bear sig makes me want to ignore your comments.

You are probably

Yes, i am indeed a loveable scamp, thank you for noticing.

dresden8

My name is URL wrote: »

Do some research..

It doesn't take a genius to know that Ireland is going to take longer to recover from this recession than other pro-Lisbon EU countries.

The treaty will go ahead with or without Ireland's support, its a sad fact. Other countries actually believe its the way forward.
Ireland will ultimately be written out of it if we keep voting no.

When the other participating nations decide where to put its money will it be alienated Ireland? I don't think so

I'm neither for nor against it, I don't give a **** after seeing from the last referendum that the rest of Europe will press ahead with it regardless of us. Thats why I'm not voting, and don't plan on voting again in any european referendum

So, we're allowed our vote by the big boys but its worth fnck all because they'll do what they want, no matter how we vote.

So much for a grouping of equals.

You may be past caring but some of us aren't. We give a fnck about our future.

Ted The Thread

thelordofcheese wrote: »

Yes, i am indeed a loveable scamp, thank you for noticing.

I'm lovable too. Your point was?

Riddle101

snyper wrote: »

Ill put it this way to you..

If we knew nothing about the treaty at all, i think the fact that the ONLY political party that are against it is those communist/terrorist cruds Sinn Fein / IRA should be the hint that YES is a positive move.

You underestimate the Sinn Fein and Socialist Party. I'm not a follower of them either but to say they don't have a lot of influence over the Lisbon Treaty is naive. No doubt i'm sure a lot of Working Class people will vote no again because it is them who are targeted mostly by these parties because they can be easily manipulated by the idea of Ireland losing their soverenty, because it's usually the working class areas who show the most support for Republicanism and Nationalism, so they'll believe whatever Sinn Fein or Socialist say because they think they're the working class heros and no whats right for the country.

Anyway I'm still unsure about what to vote so I just went with spoiling my vote but I want to have another look over the treaty before I make my full verdict.

Wagon

Ted The Thread wrote: »

I'm lovable too. Your point was?

I like where this is going. I'm supporting Ted The Thread.

thelordofcheese

Ted The Thread wrote: »

I'm lovable too. Your point was?

I have three posts that say your not. But this isn't about how awesome i am, it's about you ted.

You and things you have trouble with, so come on. Let us get to know you better.


tell us why this treaty is such a big evil thing, i promise i won't laugh.

Stephen

Unfortunately I won't be in the country when the referendum happens. They won't let me have a postal vote either

Ted The Thread

Wagon wrote: »

I like where this is going. I'm supporting Ted The Thread.

I'm with you comrade.

Red Power!

G_R

im voting yes for 3 reasons:

1) every political party in the country is supporting it except (sinn fein and tbh i dont really trust their judgement - and the socialist party hardly counts, its one man i think).

2) all the concerns (however ridiculous) that the no camp had have been resolved by way of legal guarantees from all other heads of state in the EU. By Ridiculous concers i mean the ones like conscription to the great european army and forced abortion.

and3) I dont trust that ganley fella

Ted The Thread

dannym08 wrote: »

im voting yes for 3 reasons:

1) every political party in the country is supporting it except (sinn fein and tbh i dont really trust their judgement - and the socialist party hardly counts, its one man i think).

2) all the concerns (however ridiculous) that the no camp had have been resolved by way of legal guarantees from all other heads of state in the EU. By Ridiculous concers i mean the ones like conscription to the great european army and forced abortion.

and3) I dont trust that ganley fella

The original Yes people told you there was no second chance. How do you see that?

G_R

Ted The Thread wrote: »

The original Yes people told you there was no second chance. How do you see that?

well, i think that the peoples decision should have been respected (even though i thought it was the wrong decision) but in saying that, im not going to vote against something that i think is good for the country to punnish brian cowen and co.

Ted The Thread

dannym08 wrote: »

well, i think that the peoples decision should have been respected (even though i thought it was the wrong decision) but in saying that, im not going to vote against something that i think is good for the country to punnish brian cowen and co.

Free your mind.

Think Europe for you.

Randy Shafter

I'm voting No like i did last time.
The European Union is a sham democracy in my opinion.