The Enfield Poltergeist Case - Has it been debunked fully yet?

pH wrote: »

Hang on, let me get this straight, part of the 'evidence' is that investigators stood in a room with their back to kids, had things chucked at them and heard the children giggling?

Surely this is a piss-take?

Nah, that's not part of the evidence at all - that was just an observation that they (helpfully) noted.

Two independent witnesses - a baker delivery man and a lollipop lady - saw one of the children (Janet) levitating horizontally in a clockwise fashion along with some toys at the window of her upstairs bedroom from the street below at the same time as each other. I don't think that was a piss take on their part. On that same morning, the baker fella saw a large red cushion materialise out of nowhere on to the roof of the house (which was what caught his attention to start with), before seeing Janet levitating like that. He stuck to his story until his death and he never tried to make any money out of what he saw. Lollipop lady also stands by what she saw. Funnily enough, just minutes before the baker saw the red cushion appear on the roof, SPR investigators and a physicist from London University handed Janet the red cushion and asked her to make it disappear once they shut the bedroom door. Shortly after that came what the lollipop lady and the baker saw from outside.

After that, the neighbour Peggy Nottingham gave Janet a red pen and told her to try to draw a thin red line around the light fixture on the ceiling. They all figured that there'd be no way that Janet could do that without having to drag her bed along the floor to reach up and do it once the door was closed. Anyway they closed the bedroom door and left her to it. They heard a few whimpers and groans from inside the room after a few seconds, and Janet called out to them. So they opened the door, where Janet said, "I've been through the wall! I've just been in your (Peggy Nottingham, the neighbour) bedroom next door! I dropped my book in there as well". Peggy was certain that Janet had never been inside her bedroom in the house next door and thought it was nonsense. So Peggy went down, out, and upstairs to her bedroom next door to check it out. At the exact moment Peggy Nottingham picked up a children's book called 'Fun And Games For Children' off her bedroom floor, the physicist from London University next door noted that a thin red line had been drawn around the light fixture in Janet's bedroom.

patrickthomas wrote: »

And two girls could not lift it and move it, the case is widely believed to be a hoax.

So how did the fireplace come out of the wall and get thrown around the room? For the family to go to the trouble of deliberately getting some blokes to remove the fireplace is a bit pointless, considering a) the family - especially the mother - were shaken enough, and b) they had very little money. It'd cost them a fair few bob to replace the fireplace and repair everything else that was damaged in the house; money they clearly didn't have.

koHd wrote: »

It's amazing how the intellect of the "ghost" seemed that of a 12 year old :rolleyes:

And the story of Bill was easilly passed on by somebody that lived on that street when Bill lived there.

I know the area I grew up stories would be passed from generation to generation about people that lived and died there.

It would especially be told if there's a supposed haunting in the house where somebody died.

Would have been interesting if they asked the "ghost" some particularly difficult question that Bill would know, but a 12 year old girl wouldn't.

But oh well.

Yeah that's fair enough, but how do you explain the lollipop lady and the baker witnessing the girl 'floating' around her room and the red cushion suddenly materialising on the roof of the house outside? How do you explain the neighbour Peggy Nottingham having the girl's book showing up in her own house next door without anyone having gone into the house to put it there in that short space of time? How do you explain the thin red line being drawn around the light fixture on the ceiling of the girl's room in a matter of seconds at the same time as the book was found next door,when no furniture was dragged by her to reach up and do it? I want to understand these things.

Was everyone just lying through their hole?

Aside from the lollipop lady and the baker's testimonies, there was a physicist from London University who was present when the thin red line was drawn around the light fixture on the ceiling and when the book was found in Peggy Nottingham's bedroom next-door. So that's another independent witness.

The girl floating? Yeah, any muppet can do that (as you showed) but how do you make a red cushion suddenly materialise on the roof of your house?

Agreed that the Janet Hodgson lady is off her trolley nowadays (and maybe years ago as well).

briany wrote: »

Did they see a line being drawn as they stood there and was it captured on film? If not then you are talking about an eye witness statement and eyewitness statements are not gospel and memory is a funny thing.

If the Enfield case and it's validity were to be looked at like a court case, the mental state of those girls would be a huge huge factor and really undermines their crediblilty. Was that sister's shakey mental state a result of or the cause of the experiences in the house?

The question of the red cushion..... is this like a teleportation or a moving? Materialise would indicate the former. The question I have is why couldn't Bill just have put Janet or Peggy up on the roof, you know, have her disappear in front of the researcher's eyes and then the next thing you know, she's up on the roof crying to get down? Did they even see the cushion disappear? Did it happen when they were gone from the room? Why can't these poltergeists ever do something fantastical to just completely remove any doubt about their existence? They can mess with the electrics of one house, why can't they shut down an entire city grid forever? Why can't they just completely run amok and what is stopping them? No, these cases always seem to be quite personal with a handful of witnesses at most. Of the cushion, the simplest explaination is a lucky throw and unless you saw footage of a teleportation or a moving, how could you believe otherwise?

Achem's razor has to take the prize here I'm afraid.

Why are you asking me for all the answers? I'm not your mammy. I've gone away and read up on it and formed my own conclusions (mostly). I've done my homework. You should do the same. I don't have the time to be fielding an endless array of questions on this