Advertisement
Help Keep Boards Alive. Support us by going ad free today. See here: https://subscriptions.boards.ie/.
https://www.boards.ie/group/1878-subscribers-forum

Private Group for paid up members of Boards.ie. Join the club.
Hi all, please see this major site announcement: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058427594/boards-ie-2026

Timber Frame House 40 Years Old..HELP?

  • 25-08-2009 02:46AM
    #1
    johneym
    Site Banned Posts: 344 ✭✭


    HI FOLKS,

    BEEN READING YOUR posts here and am facinated.However I have found nothing to refer to my question.
    I saw a lovely house for sale in the country a few weeks back.I am thinking of buying it. Only afterwards did the auctioneer tell me it is timber framed.Its quite a trip to get there and I will be going to see it again. Only I was wondering if anyone knows anything of the timber framed houses built around this time.(40 years ago)
    I remember the feel of concrete outside so I am presuming it was blocked on the outside. The internal walls didnt seem thick and I would imagine there would be a problem with noise through walls.There were also no signs of dampness and overall it looked very cosy. It had a kitchen extension to the back.Solid fuel stove, original I think.
    I dont want to be left with a dying duck so if anyone knows of these old houses please let me know. What might the insulation be like if any? can it be insulated? I know timber framing is still relatively new so I cannot imagine what it was like 40 years ago!!
    Much appreciated,

    Johney


Comments

  • #2
    Joey the lips
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,262 ✭✭✭✭Joey the lips


    I live in a moden timber frame house. Cannot speak about old specs but as regads noise

    Noise: None

    Heating: Very quick

    Curtains: Easy to hang!:D


  • #3
    mickdw
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,999 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    My opinion would be that you should run away.
    Now there is nothing wrong with 40 year old timber, most likely better timber than we use currently, however you would be very lucky if any kind of knowhow was used 40 years ago in relation to vapour control layers etc. I seen one very old timber frame house built in the 70s by a returning yank who knew everything. It was rotten through.
    The make up was:

    outer leaf: 4 x 2, marine ply, chicken wire and plaster
    50mm cavity with lots of timber braces crossing cavity
    inner leaf: 6 x 2, rock wool in between (in places)& plasterboard slab.

    The inner leaf was suppporting everything and it was rotten from plasterboard out. No doubt due to condensation etc


  • #4
    johneym
    Site Banned Posts: 344 ✭✭johneym


    Poor Uncle Tom
    Registered User
    blue_star_3.gif

    Join Date: Jun 2008
    Location: a shot of JD away from Nirvana
    Posts: 1,581
    Adverts | Friends


    Back On Topic....

    Detailing for timber framing for 40 years ago would have been very sparse because of the type of materials available now were not there. I would be very interested to find out about the positioning and state of the sole plates, head plates and ope framings.

    My advice would be to get a structural engineer or AT and open up at least two points on the frame/floor junction and inspect. One on the south side, one on the north side.
    user_offline.gifreport.gif quote.gif


  • #5
    johneym
    Site Banned Posts: 344 ✭✭johneym


    thanks guys,,,

    poor uncle Tom...do you have experience with these old houses?

    Johne


  • #6
    Poor Uncle Tom
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,547 ✭✭✭✭Poor Uncle Tom


    I've never seen a timber framed house that age in this country. I think it depends what format the framing followed at that stage.

    What would concern me is,

    does the entire frame stop at floor level?
    Is floor level sufficiently high over GL?
    What type and section sizes of timbers were used?
    The current state of the timbers on the sunny and sheltered sides?
    How detailed was the damp proofing?
    What state are the sole plates, head plates and framing timbers in?
    How well ventilated are the structural timbers?

    And through all this please keep in mind that the average lifespan of a modern timber frame house is taken as being 50 years.


  • Advertisement
  • #7
    johneym
    Site Banned Posts: 344 ✭✭johneym


    I didnt know the lifespan of timber framed houses in Ireland would only be 50 years? I lived 10 years in Germany and have been in timber framed houses there over 100 years old.
    What are we doing wrong in this country?


  • #8
    Poor Uncle Tom
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,547 ✭✭✭✭Poor Uncle Tom


    We're not doing anything wrong, and the likelyhood is that a timberframe house will last a lot longer then 50 years, if it is maintained properly.

    But on the otherhand if it is not maintained properly (closed structural vents, ground level to close to dpc level, opes not flashed properly, ingress points not being dealt with promptly, etc.,) a timberframe house will not last 50 years.

    Anyway an average lifespan is taken as being 50 years and it is very likely some structural members will need repairs on or before this time.


  • #9
    johneym
    Site Banned Posts: 344 ✭✭johneym


    Thanks for the replies folks...

    But COME ON GUYS. 200 views but only 5 replies?
    someone out there must jhave direct experience with these types of houses. I cannot imagine there were too many variations back then.

    Cheers,

    Johney


  • #10
    pandos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 36 ✭pandos


    Hi. Timber frame houses were built in this country more than forty years ago, My father used to erect them all over the place.

    As far as I know they were manufactured under a licence from an English Company or a Canadian company or perhaps both. The name used was "Guildway" and I think there was a tie in with "Gilwell" which is in England.

    The company that had the agency here was still operating in Midleton up till at most 12 years ago.

    In the early seventies he bulit 3,4, 5,and 6. of a development of eight houses. In 2001 I built 1,2, 7,and 8.

    My brother lives in one built in the late eighties and my Uncle is living in one built in 1970.

    The original houses which were Guildways are still as good as the day they were built. They are very warm and soundproof.

    They were built using a factory made kit system which is far superior to some used today, There was a concrete base, between terraced houses there was a 9 inch solid wall.

    The outer walls and the inner partitions all arrived covered in membrane and the insulation and foil back slabs etc were all supplied.

    The kit was erected in a day with the roof lathed and felted, and the windows fitted ready for masons to build the outer skin which was either block or brick.

    Many of them had cedar panels underneath the windows and perhaps this may give you a clue. Also the internal doors were all on lift off hinges with weiser locks.

    Do not confuse the practice of covering a timbershell with plywood, wire and plaster that can really be a can of worms.

    Of course, you need to be careful, but I would not discount a house simply because it is a timber frame but I would have it checked out thoroughly.

    Hope this helps.

    Regards.


  • #11
    tomhanks
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2 ✭tomhanks


    Hi all,

    Timber frame has a shorter life expectancy in Ireland because of very different climatic conditions and will probably even vary between west and east coast.
    I wouldn't be afraid of this house at all but I would get it checked. Was it originally local authority?? Specifications in 70's would have been more primitive than they are now but at least they would have been adhered to.
    I have seen timber frame constructed in 06 that should be demolished so age is not always an accurate guideline. get it checked out obviously as said above moisture penetration would be the biggest worry.

    Insulating this old has could be done by www.premiuminsulations.ie. They are the only ones I know of who insulation timber frame without removing the plaster boards.


  • Advertisement
  • #12
    knipex
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,996 ✭✭✭knipex


    I bought a timberframe house built in 1972.


    The entire house was built on a concrete slab which is at the front 24" above ground level and at the back 36".

    Original timber frame is in perfect condition. There were a few issues but nothign major.

    The windows were actually built into the frame (not a builder so forgive the terminology) they ran vertical supports from base plate to top plate and then two horizontal pieces to make top and bottom of window. A second vertical studs were run just outside the window frame so in effect you had 2 vertical studs side by side with the inner one acting as the side of the window.

    This was done in soft wood and as you can imagine was rotten after 30+ years of poor maintenance.

    To replace the windows was a nightmare. The top and bottom horizontal plates were cut out and then the same done to the vertical studs. New horizontal pieces were put in to support new windows ans new PCV windows fitted.

    Outside under the windows had originally been shingles replaced with painted timber and then later chicken wire and plaster. I ripped all this out and built it up with stone with a concrete sills.

    As you can imagine I got a good look at the original frame and it was perfect. A chippy mate of mine gave me a hand with the work and he could not get over the condition of the frame.

    Only other issues I have.

    Only insulated in parts (around windows, doors and behind rads) but the house is still warm. The foil back slabs were never hard-walled on the inside. The joints were taped, skimmed and sanded. Over the years of repeated painting the condition of the slab surface has deteriorated and when painting the joint tape soaks paint and peels off. Similarly with section of the slab paper.

    When we did up the nursery i actually removed the slabs, and insulated the outside walls. This was on the shaded side of the house and again the frame was perfect. Fibreglass between the studs and ordinary 1/2" slab (I had intended on using insulated slabs but for some reason didn't) with a coat of hardwall.

    The room was warm before but now its unbelievable. I have turned off the rad in the room.

    I also built an extension, block with a cavity fully insulated and the original house is every bit as warm as the extension.

    My understanding is that it was a Canadian system supplied from a factory and erected in a day.

    My advice.

    Check the floor level of the house, make sure it is well above ground level. Get into the attic and have a look around. You should be able to see the top plate.

    Check under the windows on the outside. If that is recessed )which appears to be a signature of this Canadian system) I wouldn't worry too much.


  • #13
    colmhd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6 ✭colmhd


    Great tips, was looking into an older timber framed house myself.


This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement
Advertisement