Should organ donor cards be compulsory?

genericguy · 21-08-2009 05:20PM

Charco wrote: »

Yeah, well ghosts don't eat or breathe or anything like that so most of the organs won't be needed. I'd hate to spend forever with my eyes though.

and how many ghosts have told you that they don't eat or breathe?

orourkeda · 21-08-2009 05:22PM

I'm very much open to correction here but isnt there a system abroad (Spain I think but not sure) whereby it's assumed that your organs are to be donated unless you opt out of this system. Pretty much opposite to the system here.

genericguy · 21-08-2009 05:22PM

sidneykidney wrote: »

I really dont think this is viable i was 18 when i took ill at that age the last thing on my mind was carrying a card. I supppose you could say "you only realise these things when your the one in need" and yes in my case thats true,but denying someone a lifesaving transplant because they arent a willing donor card carrier....no not at all viable.

yes, but if it was an actual policy you'd be fcuking well aware of it. i would obviously be of the position that under 18's would be exempt from this policy, but there's no excuse for a grown adult capable of independent decision-making to choose not to donate valuable life-giving organs that will otherwise serve as nothing but fertilizer.

Pompey Magnus · 21-08-2009 05:25PM

genericguy wrote: »

and how many ghosts have told you that they don't eat or breathe?

Everyone knows that ghosts don't eat or breathe, they no longer have a physical body which requires energy or oxygen. This is basic stuff really.

sidneykidney · 21-08-2009 05:25PM

Dont get me wrong it would be great if all adults carried the card but we know thats not going to happen (we dont live in a perfect world,far from it). But i disagree totally that if you dont carry the card you wont recieve the treatment you deserve.....Its ethically wrong for a doctor to refuse to operate on those grounds

This is in response to genericguys last post btw

genericguy · 21-08-2009 05:27PM

Charco wrote: »

Everyone knows that ghosts don't eat or breathe, they no longer have a physical body which requires energy or oxygen. This is basic stuff really.

yeah, obviously. it's just that i haven't read any interviews or published scientific literature attesting to their existence, nor have i ever met anyone else who speaks to them regularly. i'm quite frankly amazed that you've conducted medical tests on them and not shared it with the public until now.

i don't want your brain when you die.

Pompey Magnus · 21-08-2009 05:30PM

genericguy wrote: »

i don't want your brain when you die.

I won't need it, just keep away from my eyes.

genericguy · 21-08-2009 05:30PM

sidneykidney wrote: »

Dont get me wrong it would be great if all adults carried the card but we know thats not going to happen (we dont live in a perfect world,far from it). But i disagree totally that if you dont carry the card you wont recieve the treatment you deserve.....Its ethically wrong for a doctor to refuse to operate on those grounds

This is in response to genericguys last post btw

nah man, seriously, do unto others and all that. were i a surgeon, and someone landed on my table and said, "gimme a liver, but you're not getting any of my organs when i die", i'd tell him to fcuk off. what's good for the goose is good for the gander.

ScumLord · 21-08-2009 05:31PM

Overheal wrote: »

It should remain optional. I'd be a little sickened if the government claimed lordship of my organs out of hand, you know? They get enough from me. If I wanna die with my heart and lungs, that should be my right. Wanting to offer them up to save someone else, that should still remain a choice. It's a very personal thing in my humble opinion. I, and only I, should be in charge of what happens with my Heart and Kidneys.

Oh, and btw:

It's not really the government that's claiming your organs though it's your fellow human being. Your body is of no use to you or your family once your gone, even in the religious sense you shouldn't feel any need to keep it intact as your soul would be safe.

I think opt out would be fair, if you're really that particular about it just opt out.

I have signed doner cards numerous times but I don't carry a wallet and have no idea where my cards are. It would make me happy to know that even though I'm dead I've given someone else a second chance.

genericguy · 21-08-2009 05:34PM

Charco wrote: »

I won't need it, just keep away from my eyes.

try opening them now and read what you're saying.

mehfesto2 · 21-08-2009 05:36PM

An odd angle to take, but I've had this discussion with friends before and one always stood by:

"If everyone gave up their organs, yeah you'd sort out the truly needy, the people born with problems or those who were beset by some disease or whatever, but you'd also have people who'd use up two or three livers through drinking. I'd hate to think my organs were being used as a stop-gap between a hospital and a pub. Imagine that!"

Very unlikely and 'what if-y', but technically it's a fair point if everyone HAD to donate, I suppose.

The Big Red Button · 21-08-2009 05:36PM

I had this discussion with a group of about twelve friends and relatives the other day. Of the group, not one single person was opposed to the idea of having their organs donated. In fact, most of them felt strongly that they would want their organs to be donated to save other people's lives.

However, I was the only one there with an organ donor card.

It says a lot. I think that most Irish people - young people in particular - see the value of donating their organs; however they have a bit of an "It won't happen to me" mentality, and never bother signing up for the card. However, if they died, the grieving parents often won't want to agree to having their son/daughter's body "taken apart" when the victim is still technically alive and on life support. Particularly if the parents are of a more traditional mindset, and have just not considered the issue before.

That's why I'd favour an "opt-out" system, whereby if anyone does actually strongly object to donating their organs for whatever reason, it should be quick and easy to opt out without having to explain themselves etc.

Edit: Oh and the opting out should be on an organ-by-organ basis, to allow Charco to keep his eyes and donate everything else!

Pompey Magnus · 21-08-2009 05:37PM

genericguy wrote: »

try opening them now and read what you're saying.

All I'm saying is that I don't want to be a blind ghost, I don't see what is so hard to understand.

If you had the choice of being a ghost that could see or that couldn't see which would you choose? Sheesh.

genericguy · 21-08-2009 05:39PM

chatterpillar wrote: »

That's why I'd favour an "opt-out" system, whereby if anyone does actually strongly object to donating their organs for whatever reason, it should be quick and easy to opt out without having to explain themselves etc.

but why should anyone expect to get an organ transplant if they aren't willing to donate themselves? the opt-out system would be perfect i think, but it would have to be quid pro quo.

an eye for an eye, as it were

genericguy · 21-08-2009 05:40PM

Charco wrote: »

All I'm saying is that I don't want to be a blind ghost, I don't see what is so hard to understand.

If you had the choice of being a ghost that could see or that couldn't see which would you choose? Sheesh.

you're not going to be a ghost. have youever seen a decomposed corpse? the eyes also decompose.

The Big Red Button · 21-08-2009 05:43PM

genericguy wrote: »

but why should anyone expect to get an organ transplant if they aren't willing to donate themselves? the opt-out system would be perfect i think, but it would have to be quid pro quo.

an eye for an eye, as it were

I do actually agree with you there. If it were an opt-out system, I think that those that are over 18 and registered to donate should have preference over patients who are in a similar medical condition and have opted out. Of course this would have to be made very clear to anyone who chooses to opt out.

It seems fair enough to me really. I mean, if you insist you want your organs to rot away with the rest of your body out of squeamishness, surely you'd be squeamish enough not to want someone else's organs in you. If it's for religious reasons, you shouldn't want to inflict eternal damnation on your donor for giving their organs ... etc!

Holsten · 21-08-2009 05:48PM

Yes, it should be compulsory.

I really can't see why anyone would object... you'll be dead! It'll make no difference!

Dave! · 21-08-2009 05:50PM

I think if a card was posted to every person in the state, we'd have a much larger uptake

Not that they're hard to come by nowadays, but they'd be fairly inescapeable if posted to everyone

ScumLord · 21-08-2009 05:56PM

mehfesto2 wrote: »

but you'd also have people who'd use up two or three livers through drinking. I'd hate to think my organs were being used as a stop-gap between a hospital and a pub. Imagine that!"

Very unlikely and 'what if-y', but technically it's a fair point if everyone HAD to donate, I suppose.

There would obviously have to be a line drawn somewhere. I do think everyone deserves a second chance, even alcoholics. But that's it one extra chance if you continue to drink and mess yourself up again well, then you've proved your not worthy.

genericguy wrote: »

but why should anyone expect to get an organ transplant if they aren't willing to donate themselves? the opt-out system would be perfect i think, but it would have to be quid pro quo.

an eye for an eye, as it were

Don't agree with that either People just don't think properly about these things until they happen to them. I'd guess that any non-doner that had their life saved by an organ transplant would quickly change their point of view. Everyone deserves a second chance. We can't live in a two tear system where some are deemed worthy and some aren't.

Dave! wrote: »

I think if a card was posted to every person in the state, we'd have a much larger uptake

Not that they're hard to come by nowadays, but they'd be fairly inescapeable if posted to everyone

I'm fairly sure organ doner cards came through our letter box at home. We all signed up, set the cards aside and never thought about them again. That's why an opt out database is the easiest way to deal with it.

Hagar · 21-08-2009 05:58PM

Given the scandle where hospitals were "harvesting" organs from infants/foetuses without parental consent or knowledge and selling them on to pharmecutical companies I wouldn't trust the HSE as far as I could throw them.

swingking · 21-08-2009 06:00PM

@OP

was this the same guy who was talked about in the Irish times because his son got the liver damage for drinking too much

source= Irish Times

A LONDON hospital says there can be no exceptions to its rule that liver transplants are only provided to patients who are alcohol-free for six months, despite a plea from a Co Down man whose son’s liver failed after a drinking binge.

Edit: just confirmed the story matching that of the OPs.

TPD · 21-08-2009 06:00PM

Organ donation preference should be kept on record by your doctor/government health database. First time going to the doctor after turning 18, you are asked your preference. You can then change it at any subsequent visit to the doctor. Simple enough really.

Rebelheart · 21-08-2009 06:03PM

ScumLord wrote: »

I'm fairly sure organ doner cards came through our letter box at home. We all signed up, set the cards aside and never thought about them again. That's why an opt out database is the easiest way to deal with it.

I'd tend to strongly agree with that. The only thing I carry with me is my phone, money and atm/credit cards. Everything else, including my watch, is redundant (there's a clock on my phone).

To expect people to think of bringing their organ donor card every day assumes that people think, even fleetingly, about dying every morning. Unless you're deeply morbid, you probably have other things to think about.

Rebelheart · 21-08-2009 06:05PM

swingking wrote: »

@OP

was this the same guy who was talked about in the Irish times because his son got the liver damage for drinking too much

source= Irish Times

Edit: just confirmed the story matching that of the OPs.

Yeah, the 19 year-old. He was given 2 weeks to live. Never heard of him until Éamon Keane interviewed his father on Newstalk today at 12.20pm. It was a very moving interview.

jimmy jam jars · 21-08-2009 06:06PM

should be compulsory

Dave! · 21-08-2009 06:10PM

Rebelheart wrote: »

I'd tend to strongly agree with that. The only thing I carry with me is my phone, money and atm/credit cards. Everything else, including my watch, is redundant (there's a clock on my phone).

To expect people to think of bringing their organ donor card every day assumes that people think, even fleetingly, about dying every morning. Unless you're deeply morbid, you probably have other things to think about.

Would your donor card not fit in with your ATM card in your wallet...? That's where mine is.... Nothin morbid about it, I put it there once and forgot about it !

The Big Red Button · 21-08-2009 06:12PM

Rebelheart wrote: »

To expect people to think of bringing their organ donor card every day assumes that people think, even fleetingly, about dying every morning. Unless you're deeply morbid, you probably have other things to think about.

Well to be fair, I signed up for a card when I was about twelve, it's been transferred from wallet to wallet since then along with the rest of my cards without a second thought! So no, I don't even think about bringing it with me every day.

But of course everyone's different, which is why a national database is needed.

ChocolateSauce · 21-08-2009 06:13PM

That is such a stupid way of going about it....compulsory cards? What they should do it simply operate under the assumption that everyone is a donor, and make it so that you need a card saying you don't want to be donor instead.

ScumLord · 21-08-2009 06:17PM

Dave! wrote: »

Would your donor card not fit in with your ATM card in your wallet...? That's where mine is.... Nothin morbid about it, I put it there once and forgot about it !

If he's like me he doesn't have a wallet, in my pocket is money, card, keys and phone, no container necessary.

Rebelheart · 21-08-2009 06:18PM

Dave! wrote: »

Would your donor card not fit in with your ATM card in your wallet...? That's where mine is.... Nothin morbid about it, I put it there once and forgot about it !

It's so long since I got a donor card - about ten years - that I lost it years ago. People lose cards, phones and a load more things regularly. Generally, I try to bring as little in my pocket as possible, which is why I shun 'loyalty cards' etc.

This sort of issue is, I believe, too important to leave it up to somebody's memory on the day he or she has an accident. A national database which emergency services have access to sounds like a much more reliable and comprehensive system than just dishing out cards to us from time to time. The idea of an opt-out system sounds like a solid basis upon which to establish a new organ donation system, I think.

Should organ donor cards be compulsory?

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