230 Miles per gallon, 1000KM range, 0-60 mph in 9 seconds

zod · 20-08-2009 01:39PM #1

GM CEO Fritz Henderson announced this week that the company's much anticipated Chevy Volt (half electric, half fossil fuel) is the undisputed winner in the miles-per-gallon race, claiming that under new EPA guidelines the Volt will hit 230 miles per gallon (city), the first car to ever earn triple-digit fuel efficiency.

..Volt's potential range to be as much as 640 miles (1,030 km) on a single tank of gasoline...

http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,1916568,00.html

GM's latest figures peg the Volt's 0-60 mph performance time in the 8 to 9 second range, with a top speed of 100 mph. The electric drive unit will deliver 111 kW of power that translates to 150 horsepower, and importantly an impressive 370 lbs-ft of torque. Since electric motors can deliver maximum torque from 0 rpm, overall performance should be quite good.

http://www.greencar.com/articles/preview-2011-chevy-volt-electric.php

drunkmonkey · 20-08-2009 01:43PM

Should be great for the environment but it's going to be crap for the government, road tax will be on the lowest band and vat revenues on fuel will be cut by 300%
I wouldn't fancy being finance minister when this one starts rolling off the production line...

Cookie_Monster · 20-08-2009 01:48PM

zod wrote: »

Volt will hit 230 miles per gallon (city), the first car to ever earn triple-digit fuel efficiency.

..Volt's potential range to be as much as 640 miles (1,030 km) on a single tank of gasoline...

only a 2 gallon tank?

Cuddlesworth · 20-08-2009 01:51PM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Should be great for the environment but it's going to be crap for the government, road tax will be on the lowest band and vat revenues on fuel will be cut by 300%
I wouldn't fancy being finance minister when this one starts rolling off the production line...

Americans get cheap fuel because the government subsidises it. It would save them money.

biko · 20-08-2009 02:08PM

And it looks like a normal car, not a futuristic space wagon.

Mayshine · 20-08-2009 02:42PM

Did you guys even read the linked articles. Drive this on the open road an you will see much lower mpg

Here's the breakdown: The 230-m.p.g. number, according to GM's Frank Weber, global-vehicle-line executive for the Volt, is a measurement of the car's "city-driving cycle" — that's the 40 miles it can go without gas, plus one daily electric recharge, plus a little extra help from the gasoline it might need to continue to charge its batteries when they get low during driving in the city. It's basically measuring the Volt's electric-only-mode (with some help) mileage capacity. If the Volt got out on the highway — where it's powered largely by gasoline — and traveled 200 miles, the m.p.g. would drop like a stone and most likely be more in line with other hybrids.

Fizman · 20-08-2009 02:46PM

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

only a 2 gallon tank?

Well closer to 2.78.

zod · 20-08-2009 02:56PM

Mayshine wrote: »

Did you guys even read the linked articles. Drive this on the open road an you will see much lower mpg

yes after the first 40 miles the MPG sinks to that of a normal car, its a good job that :

But with nearly eight out of ten Americans commuting fewer than 40 miles a day, according to U.S. Department of Transportation data, the majority of drivers should be able to get away with the Electric mode most of the time.

In Ireland we have an average commute of 18KM ? ( source ) so it's even less of an issue.

The engine is just to extend range.. when batteries are better the engine will be thrown out as unneccessary, dirty and expensive.

gillo_100 · 20-08-2009 03:15PM

Whats interesting about the Volt is that it is the first commercially available series hybrid drive as opposed to parallel drive. ie.. In previous hybrids the petrol engine was attached to the drive and kicked in when needed, however with this the petrol engine is connected to a generator which charges the batteries, all the drive comes from the electric motor.

This is the same system as is used in lots of trains except with diesel engines instead. From what I've heard diesel is much better at this sort of thing, ie. just running at it most efficient speed to drive the generator.

And while the quoted mpg has to be taken with a good handful of salt its still a nice development to see.

zod · 20-08-2009 04:37PM

gillo_100 wrote: »

Whats interesting about the Volt is that it is the first commercially available series hybrid drive as opposed to parallel drive. ie.. In previous hybrids the petrol engine was attached to the drive and kicked in when needed, however with this the petrol engine is connected to a generator which charges the batteries, all the drive comes from the electric motor.

This is the same system as is used in lots of trains except with diesel engines instead. From what I've heard diesel is much better at this sort of thing, ie. just running at it most efficient speed to drive the generator.

And while the quoted mpg has to be taken with a good handful of salt its still a nice development to see.

agreed, I think there will be a diesel variant for Europe eventually .. but yanks only know "gas"!

Alun · 20-08-2009 04:48PM

gillo_100 wrote: »

Whats interesting about the Volt is that it is the first commercially available series hybrid drive as opposed to parallel drive.

What's more interesting to me is why other hybrids didn't do it this way in the first place, since to my mind it's an easier task, engineering-wise, to implement. I'm also sure that since the petrol / diesel engine is only being used to power the generator, presumably at constant revs and constant-ish load, then some optimization could be done that would render it more efficient than one used to directly power the wheels as well.

JHMEG · 20-08-2009 05:06PM

Alun wrote: »

What's more interesting to me is why other hybrids didn't do it this way in the first place,

Using petrol to power a generator which in turn powers an electric motor which in turn drives the wheels, is not as efficient as using petrol to power an engine which drives the wheels, for obvious reasons.

It's also the reason why the Volt only uses the petrol engine when all else has fails.

BTW trains only use the diesel-electric setup because of the sheer torque required to get such a massive load moving.

Alun · 20-08-2009 05:17PM

JHMEG wrote: »

Using petrol to power a generator which in turn powers an electric motor which in turn drives the wheels, is not as efficient as using petrol to power an engine which drives the wheels, for obvious reasons.

I'm not convinced it's necessarily as simple and obvious as that.

OK, adding in an extra conversion into the process will lower the overall efficiency of the whole chain, but (and I'm no engineer, at least, not an automotive/ traction one) I'd have thought that having the IC engine run in a more optimal mode, i.e. more constant revs / load combined with the different characteristics (low down torque) and lack of gearing (also a source of loss) of an electric motor, might go at least part way to compensating for that extra loss.

There's probably a good reason why diesel electric locomotives were developed as a superior alternative to pure diesel ones after all. It's the same principle, and they wouldn't have done it if there were no advantage.

JHMEG · 20-08-2009 06:06PM

Alun wrote: »

I'm not convinced it's necessarily as simple and obvious as that.

OK, adding in an extra conversion into the process will lower the overall efficiency of the whole chain, but (and I'm no engineer, at least, not an automotive/ traction one) I'd have thought that having the IC engine run in a more optimal mode, i.e. more constant revs / load combined with the different characteristics (low down torque) and lack of gearing (also a source of loss) of an electric motor, might go at least part way to compensating for that extra loss.

It is as simple. Toyota don't even allow the Prius to run in EV mode (ie electric) in the US as it affects overall ratings in a negative way.

Alun wrote:

There's probably a good reason why diesel electric locomotives were developed as a superior alternative to pure diesel ones after all. It's the same principle, and they wouldn't have done it if there were no advantage.

As I said above: huge torque required to get a huge load moving from a standing start. Electic motor is perfect, or rather 6 of them, as in a typical GM 201 Class CoCo as used by Irish Rail (the first of which was rather lavishly flown in to Ireland using another beast, the Antonov 124)

L1011 · 20-08-2009 06:22PM

1,030km range is worth shouting about? In a car with an internal combustion engine?

If it was a pure electric car it might be, but its *not*. However, its an acceptable range anyway, just not sure why they need to boast about it.

AugustusMaximus · 20-08-2009 06:27PM

230 is a pointless figure.

The price of electricity needs to be set against the price of petrol and a figure of petrol used and electrity costs added together to form a true mpg figure.

That is one of the most stupid and misleading figures I've ever seen.

Its like throwing a gallon of petrol into a can into the boot of an electric car and then claiming that the car has infinite fuel economy.

DaMonk · 20-08-2009 06:50PM

I wonder what they remap to!! :pac::D

zod · 21-08-2009 06:28PM

AugustusMaximus wrote: »

The price of electricity needs to be set against the price of petrol and a figure of petrol used and electrity costs added together to form a true mpg figure.

I think the mpg rating will eventually disappear ( although there are some equivalency ratings )

Most of the manufacturers are moving toward pure electric only so the per gallon metric will be moot (source)

Nissan has stated that they are not surprised by the findings of Aerovironment. According to Mark Perry, director of product planning for North America, "The automaker is focused on immediately providing the zero emissions benefit of battery only EVs. Any solution short of this goal are bridge technologies."

GM has a different take on the subject. Vehicle line director for the Chevy Volt EREV Tony Posawatz said, "For it's part, GM is unfazed. We think, in the future, battery only will have a place. But we are convinced consumers will want to avoid range anxiety."

As automakers try to decide what Americans want, the research numbers suggest that most have determined that we want the zero emissions, no gas usage EVs and are willing to attempt to overcome the range anxiety associated with them to drive a vehicle that free us from gasoline forever.

.Longshanks. · 21-08-2009 07:38PM

MYOB wrote: »

1,030km range is worth shouting about? In a car with an internal combustion engine?

If it was a pure electric car it might be, but its *not*. However, its an acceptable range anyway, just not sure why they need to boast about it.

Not quiet the same but I could squeeze 850 KM out of my last car - a 1.3 CDTi 3 door astra. It took approx 45 litres to fill....

L1011 · 21-08-2009 08:36PM

Longshanks100 wrote: »

Not quiet the same but I could squeeze 850 KM out of my last car - a 1.3 CDTi 3 door astra. It took approx 45 litres to fill....

I can get 1200km out of my van if I drove it like a Green Party member, 1000 if I drive it like me. 1000KM range for an apparently economical car is very low!

C.D. · 21-08-2009 08:42PM

I see the marketing team have as usual butchered and mutilated another technical specification beyond meaning. Following their line of thought, a fully electric cars get infinite miles per gallon and will never need the tank refilled.

.Longshanks. · 21-08-2009 08:42PM

MYOB wrote: »

I can get 1200km out of my van if I drove it like a Green Party member, 1000 if I drive it like me. 1000KM range for an apparently economical car is very low!

Exactly

zod · 21-08-2009 11:21PM

MYOB wrote:

I can get 1200km out of my van if I drove it like a Green Party member, 1000 if I drive it like me. 1000KM range for an apparently economical car is very low!

Longshanks100 wrote: »

Exactly

eh .. they mention range because its an electric car (albeit that has had its range extended by a legacy petrol engine)

The reason for this is simple, not to boast that its long ..but simply because the mere mention of an electric car will immediately cause those affected by "range anxiety" to come running.

It has a range similar to most cars. Tick.

AugustusMaximus · 22-08-2009 09:42AM

C.D. wrote: »

I see the marketing team have as usual butchered and mutilated another technical specification beyond meaning. Following their line of thought, a fully electric cars get infinite miles per gallon and will never need the tank refilled.

The stat is completely and utterly meaningless.

zod · 22-08-2009 04:01PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eI3sv0tiqSc

Clare_Guy · 22-08-2009 04:30PM

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Americans get cheap fuel because the government subsidises it. It would save them money.

The american government do not subsidise fuel. They simply choose to tax it differently then our government does.

The average tax on petrol in the united states is around 12 american cents per litre as opposed to around 75 european cents per litre over here.
yes, that's right, out of a litre of petrol that costs €1.15, the government take .75c in tax...

source wikipaedia;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_tax

L1011 · 22-08-2009 05:07PM

zod wrote: »

eh .. they mention range because its an electric car (albeit that has had its range extended by a legacy petrol engine)

Its an internal combustion engine car with its fuel efficiency for city driving improved by an electric engine, not the other way around.

zod · 22-08-2009 05:34PM

MYOB wrote: »

Its an internal combustion engine car with its fuel efficiency for city driving improved by an electric engine, not the other way around.

The internal combustion engine is not connected to the drive train, an electric motor is .. ergo it's an electric car. But don't take it from me :

The Chevrolet Volt is a plug-in hybrid electric vehicle to be produced by General Motors .. Unlike most current commercially available electric hybrids, the actual propulsion of the Volt is accomplished exclusively by the electric motor... After 40 miles (64 km), a small 4-cylinder gasoline internal combustion engine drives a 53 kW (71 hp) generator effectively extending the Volt's potential range to as much as 640 miles (1,030 km) on a single tank of gasoline. source

....

The Chevrolet Volt concept sedan, powered by the E-flex System – GM’s next-generation electric propulsion system – could nearly eliminate trips to the gas station. The Chevrolet Volt is a battery-powered, four-passenger electric vehicle that uses a gas engine to create additional electricity to extend its range. source

L1011 · 22-08-2009 06:09PM

Is an Irish Rail class 201 an electric locomotive? No, of course its not. But its driven by the same technology - electric traction motors powered by diesel generators.

Its a petrol car.

JHMEG · 22-08-2009 06:10PM

MYOB wrote: »

Its an internal combustion engine car with its fuel efficiency for city driving improved by an electric engine, not the other way around.

That would be essentially what the current Honda and Toyota hybrids are.

JHMEG · 22-08-2009 06:11PM

MYOB wrote: »

Is an Irish Rail class 201 an electric locomotive?.

Doesn't have batteries and never runs on electricity from anywhere other than from the diesel engine.

230 Miles per gallon, 1000KM range, 0-60 mph in 9 seconds

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