College fees

bleg · 20-08-2009 02:18PM

dlofnep wrote: »

Yes, yes they are. When you dictate who can get a third level education and who can't, you create a divide in society - which keeps the upper classes education, and the less-off families undereducated.

They're really not. Our universities are under funded and the state cannot support free tertiary education anymore. It's a completely untenable situation!

DoireNod · 20-08-2009 02:18PM

ceannair06 wrote: »

Bring them in - why should you get a free ride to do bloody Media Studies etc ?

Why not?

Do Law, Med etc - then we'll box you off for free. You'll be helping the country.

Helping the country? Will they be helping the country when they can't get a job here and have to move abroad? Also, does studying Law and Medicine make you a better person or more deserving of an education? No.

Indulge your Tarantino fantasy and it should cost you.

Tarantino fantasy is a bit much. Some people are interested in a career in Media, just as some people are interested in a career in Medicine or Law. What's wrong with that? Penalising people that don't want to do so-called 'real' subjects is a ridiculous suggestion.

bleg · 20-08-2009 02:20PM

dearg lady wrote: »

however in most cases the parents would pay and the kids still wouldn't have an appreciation for it!

The top idea being thrashed out at the moment is the loan scheme whereby after graduation, when a graduate reaches a certain level of income they pay a levy to pay for their third level education. Stops the parents from paying. Nothing has been ruled out though.

Secoundrow · 20-08-2009 02:22PM

Toulousain wrote: »

People who wish to go to college should pay for it themselves and not expect other people to pay for them. 3rd level education is a privelage, not a right. Nothing in life is free.

:rolleyes: Says the person who just did two years in college paid for courtasy of the irish goverment

and also a person who will remain entirly uneffected by the goverments dicision...

Just saying, dont get all high and mighty saying we should be paying fees when your going to continue getting your tuition fees payed by the irish tax payer

Long Onion · 20-08-2009 02:22PM

I think that the fact that our government won't commit proper funding to the third level instutions, allied with the fact that there are no fees is having a detrimental effect on the quality of out Uni's.

The research grants are going to the Uni's with the best facilities (usually abroad) the post grad's are following them. We need to get some more money in there somehow. Obviously it would be great to have free education but not at any cost.

Introduce a randome tax - pick a random letter of the alphabet each year and any student who has that letter in their name has to pay fees for that year, the rest escape. This would in a way target the wealthier classes who tend to have double-barrelled surnames and those eliteist oirishy types.

Batt* O'Keeffe could do the draw live on T.V. every year.

*What the FCUK type of a name is Batt anyway ?

dearg lady · 20-08-2009 02:23PM

bleg wrote: »

The top idea being thrashed out at the moment is the loan scheme whereby after graduation, when a graduate reaches a certain level of income they pay a levy to pay for their third level education. Stops the parents from paying. Nothing has been ruled out though.

yeah, that's true, I think if it was straight forward fees though, parents would foot a lot of the bill, where possible.
As regards the loan scheme, I'd be concerned about emigration. Especially if other countries begin to recover from the recession before Ireland. It's a tough one to get right

peepeep · 20-08-2009 02:23PM

MrStuffins wrote: »

This is ridiculous. I'm (hopefully) going into my 4th year this year and there was no way i could raise the €1500 needed for my fees because of how the labour market is. I couldnt get a summer job this year and my last hope is the grant, which they've turned me down for before!

Luckily it wont be me next year but my brother will be in college and there's no way he will be able to afford to go to college. And if he doesnt get a qualification he can't get a job.... :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

Well if you don't qualify for the grant, that means you have enough money not to need it - which would also suggest you could afford to pay fees.

Cookie_Monster · 20-08-2009 02:23PM

Long Onion wrote: »

*What the FCUK type of a name is Batt anyway ?

Short for Batrick

bleg · 20-08-2009 02:24PM

DoireNod wrote: »

Helping the country? Will they be helping the country when they can't get a job here and have to move abroad?

Nope. However under the current system students are getting free education (burden on the State) and then because there are fewer jobs in Ireland some are moving abroad. This means the State is getting hit twice. Firstly when the State pays for the fees and secondly when the State misses out on taxes the graduate would pay if working in Ireland.

If the loan system were brought in the State would only receive a loss in revenue due to missed taxes.

DigiGal · 20-08-2009 02:24PM

I got a 35 grand scholarship...lucky me

*gets on high horse, clippity clops off*

andrew · 20-08-2009 02:27PM

To the people who don't want to pay fees - you do realise that the more the government pays to universities, the less it pays to primary and secondary schools. So before you say No to fees, be sure you're ok with underfunded primary and secondary schools. Y'know, the schools which provide the bulk of a person's education and which contribute most to their earning potential.

DigiGal · 20-08-2009 02:29PM

andrew wrote: »

To the people who don't want to pay fees - you do realise that the more the government pays to universities, the less it pays to primary and secondary schools. So before you say No to fees, be sure you're ok with underfunded primary and secondary schools. Y'know, the schools which provide the bulk of a person's education and which contribute most to their earning potential.

Ah as if the government are going to use the money for anyhting that benefits the public anyway....

mobius42 · 20-08-2009 02:32PM

I love how some people think that at the moment we are getting a "free ride" through college and that we're a bunch of freeloaders. College, as it is, is not free. I have to pay a registration fee of €1500 this year and money for rent, ESB, heating & food on top of that. I know loads of people who can barely afford to attend college as it is; introducing fees would prevent many deserving people from attending.

I'm sure that there are many people who don't deserve to go to college, but I would rather see someone undeserving get through than see someone turned away because they can't afford it.

Jenroche · 20-08-2009 02:34PM

Kids shouldn't be deprived of the chance to go to college because they can't afford it. My son's going to go to college either this year or next year and if they bring the fees in it's going to mean his getting a student loan or not going. No thank you Mr Minister! :mad:

Jen ;->

Orla K · 20-08-2009 02:35PM

dearg lady wrote: »

KerranJast wrote: »

There was no huge upsurge in students from disadvantaged areas going to College.

Why is this I wonder? The option was there, if people from these areas choose not to go, all the free fees in the world won't make any difference no?

I can kind of answer that one but I'm sure someone here would have a better answer. I know some people that were teachers in very disadvantaged areas. Alot of the students were not being cared for by the parents, ie given money to let the child find it's own dinner chips and sweets, one 14/15 year old had ALL rotten teeth, another student killed his mother over the christmas holidays, college for these kids is near impossible since one class of 12/13 year olds were having trouble reading and writing basic things. If there is any students that are able to go to college the teachers encourage it but I'm sure seeing your friend leave school at 16 and get a crap job where all they have to spend the money on is drugs and alcohol is a huge temtation when you've just finished the leaving cert, in there eyes why spend more time being a broke student when you can just get money and have a laugh.

But that is another topic which I won't go into any further on this tread.

dearg lady · 20-08-2009 02:36PM

peepeep wrote: »

Well if you don't qualify for the grant, that means you have enough money not to need it - which would also suggest you could afford to pay fees.

The grants system may have changed since I was in college (a good while ago now!!!) so correct me if I'm wrong on this. When I applied for a grant it was based on my parents earnings for the previous year. It wasn't based on my OWN ability to pay. I was refused on this basis, and my parents paid half of the money, and I paid the rest. I know plenty of people who paid their own way through college and never got a grant due to their parents earnings

Cookie_Monster · 20-08-2009 02:40PM

mobius42 wrote: »

and money for rent, ESB, heating & food on top of that.

Thats because of your choice of college though and nothing to do with the "cost of college". You could live at home and not pay all of that if you went somewhere local. (obviously not always possible)

Cookie_Monster · 20-08-2009 02:42PM

dearg lady wrote: »

The grants system may have changed since I was in college (a good while ago now!!!) so correct me if I'm wrong on this. When I applied for a grant it was based on my parents earnings for the previous year. It wasn't based on my OWN ability to pay. I was refused on this basis, and my parents paid half of the money, and I paid the rest. I know plenty of people who paid their own way through college and never got a grant due to their parents earnings

I've always thought that was a bit crazy especially if you're not living at home. My earnings were no where near the upper limit and I would have qualified but my parent earning way over grant. They did not pay anything towrds college for my 5 years apart from the first years reg fee and I would in no way expect them to.

Orla K · 20-08-2009 02:46PM

I just realised that it probably won't be the student loan, pay when you get a job kind of thing. The government want money now, they're not going to wait 3,4,5 years to get it.

Long Onion · 20-08-2009 02:47PM

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Thats because of your choice of college though and nothing to do with the "cost of college". You could live at home and not pay all of that if you went somewhere local. (obviously not always possible)

I agree with this. I know many people attending college in other countries and a 3/4 hour commute to college is a norm in many instances. Here though, it seems if the Uni is on the other side of the road we need to move out and rent?

I would hope to but my son a cheap (1-2k) car and let him drive to and from Uni this way he can learn how to drive, be more employable in the summer and have a greater degree of freedom. If he wants to move out, let him get a job and pay the rent himself.

Harpie · 20-08-2009 02:56PM

I'm just finished undergrad, so won't be affected- but what makes me laugh is the attitude of some of the other graduates on here who are quick to say 'Let 'em pay'. The rationale seems to be 'fúck the new generation, I got mine so who cares about the current batch of undergrads'

I'm delighted I got to do my degree 'for free'- still had to pay the registration fee every year- and would hate to see fees being brought in now. I can only imagine the financial burden it will create for students who fall short of eligibility for the grant.

mobius42 · 20-08-2009 02:56PM

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Thats because of your choice of college though and nothing to do with the "cost of college". You could live at home and not pay all of that if you went somewhere local. (obviously not always possible)

Yes, it is part of the cost of college. There is no 3rd-level institution where I live and commuting is not practical (1.5 hours each way), so I have no choice. I also know someone who tried the commuting to college thing and it just doesn't work. The commute is horrible and you often need to stay on late working in college. Having to travel home after being in college from 9:00 until 22:00 is not practical.

Also, not everyone can live at home and not everyone has their college paid for them by their parents.

Tom1991 · 20-08-2009 03:01PM

could someone tell me if this is the same as the means tested scheme that was rumoured last year?

Elessar · 20-08-2009 03:04PM

Leave college free. One of the things that attracts investment into this country is the highly educated workforce. Made possible only by allowing all citizens get a third level education for free. Bringing back fees is shooting ourselves in the foot long term.

bleg · 20-08-2009 03:07PM

Orla K wrote: »

I just realised that it probably won't be the student loan, pay when you get a job kind of thing. The government want money now, they're not going to wait 3,4,5 years to get it.

No, the student loan is the favoured option. Sure the government want it now but imagine the drop out rates and the subsequent dole queues if fees were payable upfront. They'd lose 3,4,5 times the money they recouped.

Cookie_Monster · 20-08-2009 03:09PM

mobius42 wrote: »

Yes, it is part of the cost of college. There is no 3rd-level institution where I live and commuting is not practical (1.5 hours each way), so I have no choice. I also know someone who tried the commuting to college thing and it just doesn't work. The commute is horrible and you often need to stay on late working in college. Having to travel home after being in college from 9:00 until 22:00 is not practical.

But it is doable isin't it. A lot of people working have longer commutes than that

papajimsmooth · 20-08-2009 03:10PM

If fees are introduced they better be for everybody, im sick of watching "disadvantaged" kids on a free ride through college.

bleg · 20-08-2009 03:12PM

Elessar wrote: »

Leave college free. One of the things that attracts investment into this country is the highly educated workforce. Made possible only by allowing all citizens get a third level education for free. Bringing back fees is shooting ourselves in the foot long term.

The country isn't going to go thick over night because fees are re introduced.

The alternative to fees is this: The Irish 3rd level institutions (particularly our universities) remain underfunded with facilities and quality beginning to deteriorate because they can't afford to stay at the current level. The state continues to pay college fees which it can't afford to pay and subsequently has to take out loans to pay. Government deficit increases.

So, long term we end up with worse off 3rd level education (because of under funding) along with an increased deficit. I'd call that shooting us in both feet.

DigiGal · 20-08-2009 03:13PM

papajimsmooth wrote: »

If fees are introduced they better be for everybody, im sick of watching "disadvantaged" kids on a free ride through college.

Wow.....not nice

Cookie_Monster · 20-08-2009 03:15PM

DigiGal wrote: »

Wow.....not nice

Well we are going to need someone back in the coal mines

College fees

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