Do you believe in God?

hoochio · 19-08-2009 03:49PM

I don't particularly believe in a higher being. I think people just have an inherent need to believe in something so that their entire life wasn't a waste. I think we're born, we live our lives to the way we want, enjoy our time with friends and family, try not to have too many regrets and not try to push any beliefs onto other people who are sick of listening to "superior" minds at work!

Four-Percent · 19-08-2009 03:49PM

Oooo, look at me, I'm really cool, I don't like Christians.

Kradock · 19-08-2009 03:52PM

I beleive there is a God , and pass no apology for it. Neither do I call people who don't believe an idiot or retarded.

Long Onion · 19-08-2009 03:52PM

Jakkass wrote: »

One has to realise that the church isn't infallible, it is capable of making mistakes. Nobody is perfect. The Biblical text, is different, it is the standard we aim to reach as Christians.

It's funny how all organised religions seem to repeat the same mistakes though.

Jakkass wrote: »

As for rules, is it really all that inconceivable that God who created the world in benevolence to us gave us rules and tenets about how best to live our lives both for Him and for other people in our communities?

Personally I don't buy the "God as the cryptic mysterion" view, I would think that if God wanted everyone to live a certain way, he would just make it so, what is to be gained by a big experiment to see if we can guess the rules?

Jakkass wrote: »

Although this is a nice thought. How can so many contradictory ideas about God all be true.

Ah, you see, you are trying to comprehend God in human terms ...

Cookie_Monster · 19-08-2009 03:52PM

Jakkass wrote: »

How does one explain what they experienced?

Lots and Lots of opium explains that...

philologos · 19-08-2009 03:54PM

hoochio wrote: »

I don't particularly believe in a higher being. I think people just have an inherent need to believe in something so that their entire life wasn't a waste. I think we're born, we live our lives to the way we want, enjoy our time with friends and family, try not to have too many regrets and not try to push any beliefs onto other people who are sick of listening to "superior" minds at work!

I understand that evangelism can be frustrating or even annoying for unbelievers, but to understand where the believer is coming from is incredibly important.

I don't think that people convert other people, rather that people sow seeds so that people can be led to God. It's important to us to do this, because we believe that God has given us a gift that can change the lives of people for the better and indeed lead them to eternal life. Although people may be unthankful initially, many testimonies of former unbelievers confirm the view that they are glad that they were led to God.

People wanting other people to live fulfilled lives in communion with their Creator, is that really such a bad aim to have at heart?

My name is URL · 19-08-2009 03:57PM

Jakkass wrote: »

Interesting, do you believe in a creation?

I believe in a beginning, not a creation

Trying to explain a creator just leads you round in circles... what created the creator?

A beginning is a fixed point, no logical contradictions needed

the_syco · 19-08-2009 03:58PM

Aye. Just not the ones that are around at the moment.

philologos · 19-08-2009 04:01PM

Long Onion wrote: »

It's funny how all organised religions seem to repeat the same mistakes though.

All of them? I would attribute this to human failings rather than to the truth of a particular set of beliefs. Jesus is separate from this. I'd fully expect you to reject the church, but to reject Jesus, that's a bit of a leap isn't it?

Long Onion wrote: »

Personally I don't buy the "God as the cryptic mysterion" view, I would think that if God wanted everyone to live a certain way, he would just make it so, what is to be gained by a big experiment to see if we can guess the rules?

Look around you.

God has revealed Himself to every generation, and continues to do so in people right around you. Some could be your friends, some could be your family, some most likely are complete strangers.

There are over 6 billion Bibles in the world, in many different languages.

Christianity isn't about a big set of rules, and you don't have to guess either. It's about a relationship with God. As for finding out what the Christian lifestyle involves, I'd advise you to read the Gospels.

Long Onion wrote: »

Ah, you see, you are trying to comprehend God in human terms ...

In human terms and in spiritual terms, is the only way that belief comes. It is impossible for me to understand belief in the exact same way that God understands belief. This is why God has revealed Himself to us in human and spiritual terms so that we can enter this life changing relationship with him.

mewso · 19-08-2009 04:03PM

Jakkass wrote: »

How does one explain what they experienced

Give me an inspirational man, some imagination, a little talent for exaggeration, an ability to write semi-coherently, add a sprinkle of 1000-2000 years and hey presto the man I chose may end up being revered. I think I'll go for Derren Brown.

As a believer I'm sure you believe what is written in the bible. Thats fine. I don't accept all of it. On the one hand you have the Old Testament which a lot of Christians would call metaphor rather than accurate history (maybe you do consider it accurate history but I'm not going there) while accepting the New Testament as historical fact. I don't see any harm in asking questions about the accuracy of the New Testament. What bearing the times, the culture, the love some of the people had for the man they followed might have had on what they wrote.

At the end of the day I don't consider it unlikely that a great and inspirational man lived in those days and he had some good ideas but if he thought he was the Son of God then he may also have been a bit mad. That or the media hype went to his head.

Long Onion · 19-08-2009 04:04PM

Ok Jackass,

Answer me this, If he is so benevolent;

Why doesn't he want me for a sunbeam, and why do Churches have lightening conductors?

I'm going home now Ted.

Flying Abruptly · 19-08-2009 04:06PM

lol at the tags :pac:

philologos · 19-08-2009 04:07PM

Long Onion wrote: »

Ok Jackass,

Answer me this, If he is so benevolent;

Why doesn't he want me for a sunbeam, and why do Churches have lightening conductors?

I'm going home now Ted.

Explain to me the relevance? - Look, I'm not here to bother you in particular. I'm just here to say, that Christianity mightn't be all that you think, and you mightn't have it all sussed out. Infact, I don't think I have it all sussed out yet.

Instead of listening to what people have to say to you about it, it is possible to read about Jesus for yourself. That's my main point.

Irishcrx · 19-08-2009 04:11PM

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

But who made the alien?

This world is far far far far far from perfect

Mmmm in Morality and equality no definatly not.

But in terms of how everything works and has a purpose yes it is perfect. Think of how the air is made to let us breath, how day becomes night, how the earth revolves around the sun to give us heat and light , how food is grown and how it works with our body in feeding them. How our brain is capable of receiving mass information, learning and evolving.

How the rain falls the right amount to provide us with water, the pull of the moon and the ocean, the stars...

I could go on and on but if you actually look at the bigger picture and don't take it for granted. You'll realise a far more powerfull force had to put it in place and watch it grow and not in 7 days either, I don't believe in God but I believe that something somewhere did this.

It's ignorant of us to think were the only ones in the universe or the most intelligent when we can barely see out our back garden and can't even travel any further than the path.

philologos · 19-08-2009 04:11PM

mewso wrote: »

At the end of the day I don't consider it unlikely that a great and inspirational man lived in those days and he had some good ideas but if he thought he was the Son of God then he may also have been a bit mad. That or the media hype went to his head.

I find it impossible that someone could refer to Jesus as "great and inspirational" if one didn't believe what He said to be truth.

To say you are the Son of God, and that you can forgive sins, and to claim that you can perform miracles is truly something else, and it certainly has the potential to irritate people.

He related to people on the ground, and He inspired people to live for God rather than for themselves, and to have faith, and to serve ones neighbour. However, to get to that point He had to offend a lot of people. He gave the Pharisees some home truths, even referring to them as the children of Satan according to one of the Gospels. He told people that Hell was a reality, and that one would be held accountable at the end of time for every word that came out of their mouths.

I find this claim that Jesus could be "great and inspirational" while saying some of the things He said to be nonsensical for a non-believer.

BigEejit · 19-08-2009 04:15PM

Jakkass wrote: »

Christianity isn't about a big set of rules, and you don't have to guess either.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Commandments

True, true.

genericguy · 19-08-2009 04:15PM

Jakkass wrote: »

How does one explain what they experienced?

until evidence is provided, they didn't experience anything. they wrote stories.

Mossy Monk · 19-08-2009 04:17PM

I have gone with the popular choice. Phew.

mewso · 19-08-2009 04:18PM

Jakkass wrote: »

People wanting other people to live fulfilled lives in communion with their Creator, is that really such a bad aim to have at heart?

Remove "in communion with their Creator" and it's a truly fine aim. If a religious group wanted you to live a fulfilled life in communion with their esteemed leader Fat Bob you might take issue with the idea but these people would be 100% certain that fulfillment can only be found on all fours in Fat Bob's "special" room. You want people to be happy, live fulfilled lives? Find out what makes them happy without using tried and tested cult indoctrination techniques to convince them gradually of what will make them happy.

Cookie_Monster · 19-08-2009 04:22PM

Irishcrx wrote: »

But in terms of how everything works and has a purpose yes it is perfect. Think of how the air is made to let us breath, how day becomes night, how the earth revolves around the sun to give us heat and light , how food is grown and how it works with our body in feeding them. How our brain is capable of receiving mass information, learning and evolving.

How the rain falls the right amount to provide us with water, the pull of the moon and the ocean, the stars...

I could go on and on but if you actually look at the bigger picture and don't take it for granted. You'll realise a far more powerfull force had to put it in place

That would be Physics

We evolved to breath air, the atmosphere on our planet hasn't always been the same as it is now you know

Sam Vimes · 19-08-2009 04:25PM

Irishcrx wrote: »

Mmmm in Morality and equality no definatly not.

But in terms of how everything works and has a purpose yes it is perfect. Think of how the air is made to let us breath, how day becomes night, how the earth revolves around the sun to give us heat and light , how food is grown and how it works with our body in feeding them. How our brain is capable of receiving mass information, learning and evolving.

How the rain falls the right amount to provide us with water, the pull of the moon and the ocean, the stars...

I could go on and on but if you actually look at the bigger picture and don't take it for granted. You'll realise a far more powerfull force had to put it in place and watch it grow and not in 7 days either, I don't believe in God but I believe that something somewhere did this.

It's ignorant of us to think were the only ones in the universe or the most intelligent when we can barely see out our back garden and can't even travel any further than the path.

But then when you realise that there are roughly 1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000, 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000, 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 planets and stars in the universe, it was quite likely that at least one would form at the right distance from the sun etc

If you put a blind fold on and throw a dart at a board you will definitely miss but if you throw it the same number of times as there are planets in the universe you're bound to hit it once

Irishcrx · 19-08-2009 04:27PM

genericguy wrote: »

until evidence is provided, they didn't experience anything. they wrote stories.

Exactly , all they are is tales and many of the philopshers who are claimed to have documented Jesus have been proven to be forgeries by now. Fact is there is not one shred of hard evidence to prove that he existed or was any son of God and people who aren't sheep need proof not faith were only human.

It's amazing how much the catholic church use fear to command people, set rules and boundries and scare them about things they will never really know anything about.

"God is all forgiving and kind"
"But do this that and the other and your going to hell.....or Purgertoy until you pay the church X ammount and that will determine your time there...remember that one??"

Religion acts in the same way a cult does, has an almighty leader that everyone looks up to and promises you everything if you do things his/there way and theres always an underline intention money/power/control...same dance differant song year after year, decade after decade , generation after generation. Not for me thanks.

philologos · 19-08-2009 04:28PM

mewso wrote: »

Remove "in communion with their Creator" and it's a truly fine aim. If a religious group wanted you to live a fulfilled life in communion with their esteemed leader Fat Bob you might take issue with the idea but these people would be 100% certain that fulfillment can only be found on all fours in Fat Bob's "special" room. You want people to be happy, live fulfilled lives? Find out what makes them happy without using tried and tested cult indoctrination techniques to convince them gradually of what will make them happy.

This is my problem. I can't remove "in communion with their Creator". If Jesus Christ has died so that the world may be forgiven, that the world may be saved, and that the world may find fulfilled life through Him then it isn't something I can ignore. It is my responsibility not to ignore it.

All we can do is offer, but offering is important. If people want to offer me to come to their faith, I will understand. However, given my views on faith, I can't ignore that Jesus Christ changes lives.

BigEejit wrote: »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Commandments

True, true.

There are more commandments to be followed than these. However, Christians are saved by grace, not by adherence to rules. If we fail, it is okay if we are truly sorry and we are willing to try again. That's what grace is.

I realise that I am not infallible, and if I have transgressed against God's commandments, I have hope of forgiveness due to Christ's substitutionary atonement for my sins.

Christianity is about more about following rules, it is about letting God have a role in everything you do, letting God be a part of your life.

Bajingo · 19-08-2009 04:33PM

I believe in some form of afterlife.

I believe there is some form of greater 'life' out there. Whether it/he/she has any real power over us I dont know. I pray anyway because it's better to be safe then sorry and I do believe it aswell I suppose because it makes me feel better that this life isnt all there is.

Im a Catholic, technically, but I dont practice. I do believe that whether you're religious or not, what Jesus thought to people should still be practices they're aint nothing wrong with a bit of kindness!

Irishcrx · 19-08-2009 04:35PM

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

That would be Physics

We evolved to breath air, the atmosphere on our planet hasn't always been the same as it is now you know

Yes i'm aware of that , but we also can't see that far back or give accurate details of what happened as it changed or if something influenced it, I also realise dinosaurs occupied the planet before us and then suddenly wiped out.

Corb · 19-08-2009 04:37PM

Yes. And happy to do so.

Caoimhín · 19-08-2009 04:48PM

No, I do not believe in any gods. And I dont know why people get so worked up about it either. Life is short but it is full of wonder and beauty so simply enjoy it and treat others as you would like to be treated.

Cookie_Monster · 19-08-2009 04:50PM

Irishcrx wrote: »

Yes i'm aware of that , but we also can't see that far back or give accurate details of what happened as it changed or if something influenced it, I also realise dinosaurs occupied the planet before us and then suddenly wiped out.

Err we can actually, there is plenty of evidence to show how the atmosphere first formed and chaged over the eons and what changed in to, usually the prolifieration of certain types of life or volcanic activity etc.

Irishcrx · 19-08-2009 04:51PM

Sam Vimes wrote: »

But then when you realise that there are roughly 1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000, 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000, 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 planets and stars in the universe, it was quite likely that at least one would form at the right distance from the sun etc

If you put a blind fold on and throw a dart at a board you will definitely miss but if you throw it the same number of times as there are planets in the universe you're bound to hit it once

Yes but that doesn't mean that life follows it, you need alot more factors than that, the sun itself is very impressive design as is each differant planet.

Sam Vimes · 19-08-2009 04:54PM

Irishcrx wrote: »

Yes but that doesn't mean that life follows it, you need alot more factors than that, the sun itself is very impressive design as is each differant planet.

If a planet forms in such a way that it can support life and 14 billion years pass, it kind of does mean that life follows it. The sun is not designed and neither is earth, any more than valley is "designed" by a river

Do you believe in God?

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