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DTT Commercial Multiplexes (was OneVision, Boxer etc...)

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 538 ✭✭✭Sonic_exyouth


    Elmo wrote: »
    No it is not no it is not.

    Of the One Vision basic pack the following are already FTA via sat

    BBC One (FTA)
    BBC Two (FTA)
    BBC Three (FTA)
    BBC Four (FTA)
    CBBC (FTA)
    CBeebies (FTA)
    BBC News 24 (FTA)
    BBC World Service (FTA)
    UTV (FTA)
    Channel 4 (FTA)
    E4 (FTA)
    More 4 (FTA)
    Film 4 (FTA)

    Meaning that the rest are only available via pay TV
    3 Xpose (This may not happen)
    3 Today (This may not happen)
    Setanta Ireland (Do you really need this channel?)
    3e (Do you really need this channel?)
    Living TV (Do you really need this channel?)
    Comedy Central (Do you really need this channel?)
    Nickelodeon (Do you really need this channel?)
    Nick Jr (Do you really need this channel?)
    MTV (Do you really need this channel?)
    Discovery Channel (Do you really need this channel?)
    Ideal World (Do you really need this channel?)
    Gems TV (Do you really need this channel?)

    There is no Setanta Sports pack which will prob be replaced by a HD Sky Sports.

    If you want to have the UK channels you can receive them via freesat
    http://www.freesat.co.uk/ (some of the free channels are much more worthwhile than anyof the payTV channels mentioned above) plus your FTA DTT Irish services: -

    RTÉ One
    RTÉ Two
    TV3
    TG4

    RTÉ One +1 (Might not happen)
    RTE Three (Might not happen)
    RTÉ News Now (Might not happen)
    RTÉ HD (Might not happen)
    The Irish Film Channel (Might not happen)
    Oireachtas TV (Might not happen)

    Now if one vision went with PPV channel, on demand, HD and Sky Premium packs then they might me on to a winner if they package it with FreeSat.

    But none of this is any better than what your currently getting from UPC, Sky and FTA Satellite.

    Yes,

    It really is

    All the BBCs, all the ITVs, All the channel 4s, All the irish Channels, Living TV, MTV, Comedy Central, Doc channels, Nick/Jr and Setanta Ireland with it's premier league football - All for €9.99 a month.

    UPC gives you less for €19.99 a month.

    Freesat + DTT + PayDTT basic makes the twice-the-price UPC pointless.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    UPC gives you less for €19.99 a month.

    Freesat + DTT + PayDTT basic makes the twice-the-price UPC pointless.


    But only according to you if you take up Freesat, RTÉ NL Plex and One Vision. UPC offer other products that One Vision can't compeat with.

    Again as most people have said, One Vision should look towards On Demand services and Pay Per View rather than the traditional Pay television.

    Unless they are planning a tie in with Eircom broadband, and TBH competition laws and consumer affairs should try and prevent this, why is Eircom getting another network to run?

    And you also have to realise that One Vision have to make a name for themselves in regions where Cable and Sat are already popular. How long will it take for One Vision to make a profit? and how will Sky and UPC react?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    All the BBCs, all the ITVs, All the channel 4s, All the irish Channels, Living TV, MTV, Comedy Central, Doc channels, Nick/Jr and Setanta Ireland with it's premier league football - All for €9.99 a month.


    All the ITV's won't be available on One Vision. Setanta Sports 1 (a premium channel) will be showing the majority of premier league football not Setanta Ireland.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 538 ✭✭✭Sonic_exyouth


    Elmo wrote: »
    But only according to you if you take up Freesat, RTÉ NL Plex and One Vision. UPC offer other products that One Vision can't compeat with.

    Again as most people have said, One Vision should look towards On Demand services and Pay Per View rather than the traditional Pay television.

    Unless they are planning a tie in with Eircom broadband, and TBH competition laws and consumer affairs should try and prevent this, why is Eircom getting another network to run?

    And you also have to realise that One Vision have to make a name for themselves in regions where Cable and Sat are already popular. How long will it take for One Vision to make a profit? and how will Sky and UPC react?

    My understanding is that you cannot get OneVision without having RTÉ NL Plex, or at least the ability to get RTÉ DTT.

    UPC doesn't offer any of the ITV +1s, or ITV 2,3 or 4. It doesn't offer Channel 4+1 .. but does, oddly, offer more4 +1 and E4+1, but not on the basic pack, making them more expensive still.

    Freesat makes all these channels free, pluse Film4 and Film 4+1, as well as all those other movie channels that are FTA but ignored by UPC. As well as giving BBC HD and ITV HD. it also gives BBC Alba allowing many Scottish Football games, and S4C allowing many provincial Rugby games.

    DTT then gives you the irish channels you cannot get on Sat, and OneVision gives you your Sport (Setanta) and crappy chat and 'Top Models' that thet the femmes seem to enjoy.

    All of this for €10 a month.

    It's a major improvement on the basic UPC package.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 538 ✭✭✭Sonic_exyouth


    Elmo wrote: »
    All the ITV's won't be available on One Vision. Setanta Sports 1 (a premium channel) will be showing the majority of premier league football not Setanta Ireland.

    Yes, they are on Freesat.

    And Setanta Ireland one shows plenty of football at weekends, last week I watched the City game.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    Yes, they are on Freesat.

    And Setanta Ireland one shows plenty of football at weekends, last week I watched the City game.

    But I saw their preview of the games to come and most of them are on Setanta Sports 1 not Setanta Ireland.

    Yes but again Your talking about having 2 connections that many might not know about and it is something that UPC an estabilished CATV company will be relying on. (And many may not want the extra channels).

    Most of the shows on living can be found on other channels or if as we have suggested One Vision could put them on an OnDemand service.

    It is really down to how One Vision market their product and it is unlikely that they will market it with Freesat as there are many out there that just want Irish 1,2,3,4 and British 1,2,3,4 => most of One visions customers are removed from the equation due them all being available FTA.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 56 ✭✭keith99


    Elmo wrote: »
    But I saw their preview of the games to come and most of them are on Setanta Sports 1 not Setanta Ireland.

    Yes but again Your talking about having 2 connections that many might not know about and it is something that UPC an estabilished CATV company will be relying on. (And many may not want the extra channels).

    Most of the shows on living can be found on other channels or if as we have suggested One Vision could put them on an OnDemand service.

    It is really down to how One Vision market their product and it is unlikely that they will market it with Freesat as there are many out there that just want Irish 1,2,3,4 and British 1,2,3,4 => most of One visions customers are removed from the equation due them all being available FTA.

    Digital TV rises back up off the canvas

    CIARÁN HANCOCK
    Fri, Aug 28, 2009
    STAND by your remote controls, digital terrestrial television (DTT) might, after all, be coming to a TV set near you.
    Couch potatoes will recall that Denis O’Brien’s Boxer consortium last year landed a decisive blow when it won the fight for the commercial DTT licence offered by the Broadcasting Commission of Ireland (BCI).
    In April, O’Brien pulled the plug on his DTT service when the Celtic Tiger was pronounced dead, deciding that it wasn’t worth a €26 million-plus investment in branding and set-top boxes.
    The BCI then turned to standby candidate OneVision – comprising Éircom, TV3, Setanta and specialist British DTT operator Arqiva. When Setanta hit the skids recently, OneVision seemed doomed.
    But I’m told that the consortium is set to come up trumps, with an announcement about its plans likely in September.
    Talks with the BCI are said to be progressing well while negotiations with RTÉ on piggybacking on its transmission network are believed to be well in hand.
    RTÉ, don’t forget, has been charged with running the terrestrial DTT multiplex and co-operation between the two is vital if digital terrestrial television is to be a hit with consumers.
    With the economy having taken a decisive turn for the worse since the BCI held its original beauty contest last year, OneVision has no doubt tweaked its original business plan.
    OneVision originally planned a €30 million launch budget and planned to charge €50 for the boxes.
    We await details of the final offering and a date for switch on.
    Hopefully, it will be sooner than the 2015 EU deadline for the switch off of analogue.
    Whenever it’s turned on, OneVision should spice up competition in a lucrative market dominated by satellite operator Sky and cable group Chorus/NTL.
    © 2009 The Irish Times


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,461 ✭✭✭✭watty


    Again TOTALLY misleading. Because the Onvision is only probably Doomed PayTV. The PS Mux will be free and go ahead with initially 4 channels and eventually more, even if Onevision doesn't happen.

    The Headline should be Pay DTT rises back off the Canvas
    STAND by your remote controls, digital terrestrial television (DTT) might, after all, be coming to a TV set near you.
    It's coming anyway and we would have had it sooner if there wasn't this nonsense of PayTV too.

    Not new News.
    BCI, RTE and others claimed ages ago a deal would be signed in September.

    See http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=60734382&postcount=368

    11th June 2009


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    50 euro for a STB?

    Free STB with Sky and UPC, more products available with both as well.

    When will DTT be rolled out to air without access to Cable?


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 23,721 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Well I have to say, if the pricing and channel lineup on wiki comes true, then it isn't a half bad offering and actually stands a chance. Certainly a far better offering then Boxer ever was and it might trigger a price war and some real competition here.

    Yes, many of the channels are on freesat, but many people don't know about freesat and it does have a high startup cost for those without a sat dish already installed. Plus their is the convince of one box, one EPG and one DVR (yes I know there are combined FTA and DTT boxes, but they aren't widely available, are expensive and are more for the geek then mainstream customers, at least at the moment).

    I'd rather see some of the junk like Expose channels and one or two FTA channels (BBC World Service, Gems TV, Ideal World) dropped in favour of the likes of Virgin 1, Sky One, Sci Fi, Dave, FX, History, etc. It would make it a much stronger lineup.

    Certainly the lineup/price would attract my parents who are currently on just the four channels at the moment.

    However I wouldn't underestimate UPC and Sky's response, nothing stopping them dropping their prices, introducing new packages to compete with this.

    However they might not, Sky and Virgin haven't really in the UK when competing with Freeview, instead they have tried to give greater value by giving you more channels for your money, HD services and value bundles with BB and phone.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    bk wrote: »
    I'd rather see some of the junk like Expose channels and one or two FTA channels (BBC World Service, Gems TV, Ideal World) dropped in favour of the likes of Virgin 1, Sky One, Sci Fi, Dave, FX, History, etc. It would make it a much stronger lineup.

    Certainly the lineup/price would attract my parents who are currently on just the four channels at the moment.

    I personally would have liked to have see extra Irish TV channel come from digital, we are currently sending 60million worth of ad revenue across to the Britain :( none of which will ever be spent here making TV programmes.

    But you are right for a pay service 3XPOSE and some of the FTA channel could be got rid of in particular the teleshopping FTA channels. I don't think TV3 will be going for 3XPOSE or 3TODAY anyway.

    The question is where do your parents living and are the pushed about getting extra channels when RTÉ, TV3 and TG4 may all have extra some FTA channel.

    I assume that TV3 and TG4 carriage costs on FTA will be reduced no matter who gets this contract?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 558 ✭✭✭scath


    All looks good: See: http://www.broadbandtvnews.com/2009/09/12/progress-in-formation-dvb-t2-patent-pool/

    http://www.broadbandtvnews.com/2009/09/12/pace-unveils-dvb-t2-freeview-hd-box/

    Early 2010 is mentioned granted. Note: Irish DTT network supplier Rhode & Schwarz and Arquiva demonstrating DVB-T2 equipment at IBC 2009 Amsterdam. With Arquiva in Onevision bid, is there chance they could ask RTÉ NL to upgrade masts to DVB-T2? I forgot about Humax which wasn't mentioned. I suppose would be a safe bet cost will be similar to Freesat HD boxes alright Lars as they say in the article, early next year too. So means DVB-T2 boxes will be there with PVRs for our DTT launch. Onevision could go with such with pay TV if they wanted consumers to be future proof even if they went with DVB-T

    See also http://www.broadbandtvnews.com/2009/09/12/macavock-ebu-needs-to-hamonise-hybrid-tv/ with the view that broadband won't supplant broadcast...I wouldn't be so sure in a few years.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 884 ✭✭✭reslfj


    scath wrote: »
    All looks good: See: http://www.broadbandtvnews.com/2009/09/12/progress-in-formation-dvb-t2-patent-pool/

    http://www.broadbandtvnews.com/2009/09/12/pace-unveils-dvb-t2-freeview-hd-box/

    Early 2010 is mentioned granted. Note: Irish DTT network supplier Rhode & Schwarz and Arquiva demonstrating at IBC 2009 Amsterdam. With Arquiva in Onevision bid, is there chance they could ask RTÉ NL to upgrade masts to DVB-T2?

    And you can add Humax http://blog.wotsat.com/page/whatsat?entry=exclusive_humax_freeview_hd_receiver

    Note Humax expects the prices to be at the Humax FreesatHD level.

    Lars :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    Lots of speculation still. Why are we even talking about this?
    is there chance they could ask RTÉ NL to upgrade masts to DVB-T2?

    What are they currently using and how does it effect people?


  • Posts: 18,160 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    scath wrote: »
    With Arquiva in Onevision bid, is there chance they could ask RTÉ NL to upgrade masts to DVB-T2?
    I doubt it, considering that when the spec was being drawn up, Arqiva were pushing for MPEG-2.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    RTÉ are looking for a 20million bond from One Vision for their participation with DTT.

    They are asking for 3.5 million rental for each mux, that stats at 10.5m per year which isn't bad, really good for RTÉ.

    But this will go back to my orginal arrgument of new Irish services.

    RTÉ are looking for 14m per year for 4 muxs, I am going with 8 channel per mux. 32 channels altogether if RTÉ was to get licence stations from TV3, TG4 and other independent companies for 20 channels that would be 437500 per year (currently TV3 and TG4 give 1.5million). And I am sure when RTÉ recoup their infrasture upgrades this 437500 could be reduce down. Plus provide your 4 basic UK channels here and 4 basic Irish channels in the North.

    TV3 already have 2 channels. Anyway it is just a thought and not very well thought out. But then DTT isn't all that well thought out. Also TV3's and Setanta's roles in the project seem to be diminished according to the Sunday Business post so it looks like a Eircom lead consortium. Funny that Eircom are now looking to get back in to TV distribution after all the fuss about selling Cablelink.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 860 ✭✭✭marclt




    This is being more widely reported... another 12months. What an idiot!
    This from http://www.broadbandtvnews.com/2009/09/21/setanta-and-tv3-step-back-from-dtt/



    Setanta and TV3 step back from DTT

    By Julian Clover
    September 21, 2009 11.41 UK


    Arqiva and Eircom are to take an increased stake in the Irish DTT consortium OneVision after partners Setanta and TV3 decided to reduce their holdings to 10%, the Sunday Business Post has reported.
    Previously the four companies were to have held equal shares in the consortium, which has been in discussions with regulator BCI and public broadcaster RTE since the withdrawal of Boxer back in May. Any change in shareholdings will require the approval of the regulator.
    It had been anticipated that Setanta’s role in the three commercial multiplexes would be reduced following the collapse of its Great Britain business and the subsequent refinancing of its Irish interests.
    The troubled DTT project was dealt a further blow in July when RTE confirmed it would not be launching its services this autumn as had been originally planned. However, communications minister Eamon Ryan remains confident that services will be up and running within the next 12 months.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 456 ✭✭mrdtv


    marclt wrote: »


    This is being more widely reported... another 12months. What an idiot!
    This from http://www.broadbandtvnews.com/2009/09/21/setanta-and-tv3-step-back-from-dtt/



    Setanta and TV3 step back from DTT

    By Julian Clover
    September 21, 2009 11.41 UK


    Arqiva and Eircom are to take an increased stake in the Irish DTT consortium OneVision after partners Setanta and TV3 decided to reduce their holdings to 10%, the Sunday Business Post has reported.
    Previously the four companies were to have held equal shares in the consortium, which has been in discussions with regulator BCI and public broadcaster RTE since the withdrawal of Boxer back in May. Any change in shareholdings will require the approval of the regulator.
    It had been anticipated that Setanta’s role in the three commercial multiplexes would be reduced following the collapse of its Great Britain business and the subsequent refinancing of its Irish interests.
    The troubled DTT project was dealt a further blow in July when RTE confirmed it would not be launching its services this autumn as had been originally planned. However, communications minister Eamon Ryan remains confident that services will be up and running within the next 12 months.

    Minister Ryan: A triumph of optimism over experience? The investment community are quietly tiptoeing out the door. BCI need to change the business model and forget about a pay DTT venture...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 860 ✭✭✭marclt


    mrdtv wrote: »
    Minister Ryan: A triumph of optimism over experience? The investment community are quietly tiptoeing out the door. BCI need to change the business model and forget about a pay DTT venture...


    You gotta ask which overpaid public servant is 'advising' the Minister with regard to all of this. Because he is unlikely to know, with all due respect.

    It's not like we're in new territory here, the pay DTT sector has failed in much bigger markets, why would it work in an already saturated multichannel environment?

    Scrap the Pay DTT idea, let RTE NL keep the multiplexes and sell channel space directly to broadcasters... if they're selling advertising here already (E4, for example) then they are likely to want carriage... Or at least let RTE go it alone and get something up and running, switchover has to have a proper 'run in'


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 558 ✭✭✭scath


    God that's all we need, more uncertainty. :( Well we should hear something in the next few weeks I suppose though I suppose such could drag out into October if there are sticking points, I suppose you could have a bargaining situation, look we can't run with x, but if we'll offer z and then we meet somewhere in the middle. Otherwise its either a yes or no. And then RTÉ NL should have a fair idea if UPC are interested. My inkling is that UPC might well be interested in going ahead, no bond needed then if Onevision pull the plug, as that suits UPC fine, they can go head on for Sky then nationwide. But, I would imagine Arquiva have appetite for the project and might well wish to joint venture with RTÉ NL on the network rollout instead of RTÉ NL lending meaning that in might have a stake in the 3 multiplexes as co-owner rather than leasing the network. I don't know of course what they are thinking as I don't work for them but they own the commercial mutliplexes in the UK. So this could be an opportunity for them to buy into the Irish network rather than lease. Then Eircom would be a partner in the multiplex operations side in terms of the channels.

    So I don't think the Pay DTT side is dead in the water, just the chairs are moving around, obviously profitability is the problem. And the model might have to change to more smaller subscription, more FTA on the DTT mutliplex where UK broadcasters maybe take a mux and then 2 muxes are subscription based, again possibly offered direct by Sky.

    So maybe that's a better model to go than the current Onevision branded situation.

    In that situation, Digiview and Onevision boxes where you then have Sky cards, Setanta cards, or whatever for subscription could work.

    The thing about it is, if it comes down to it, I would say UPC would come in if Onevision didn't go ahead because, otherwise they might fear Sky doing in for the kill?

    So I think maybe the model has to change and perhaps RTÉ NL should consider a joint stake in the network rollout, with Arquiva or UPC as partners. As for Eircom, they've a new owner and well I dunno,, but I don't think DTT is dead in just needs a steady ship. With TV3 and Setanta just dipping their toe in I'd say all that needs to happen is for Arquiva and RTÉ NL to just talk turkey about the rollout and perhaps Arquiva as joint investor in network build. Its gotta be a better option for Arquiva than renting as they get long term return. Or maybe not...do comment guys!


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,355 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    scath wrote: »
    God that's all we need, more uncertainty. :(

    This article from Sunday's Sunday Business Post wouldn't fill anyone with optimism for DTT in Ireland.
    There was a brief discussion on the article on the Marian Finucane radio show with the Newspaper Panel which included Shane O'Neill from UPC. From what I can remember he spoke positively for the launch of DTT in Ireland.
    [Update: This Marian Finucane radio show available for download Sunday 20th September - discussion at 1:20:00]
    Digital picture is anything but clear
    Sunday, September 20, 2009 - By Samantha McCaughren Business Correspondent

    As aerials around the country cease to function in the coming months, more and more television viewers will take an interest in digital terrestrial television (DTT).The switch off of old analogue TV signals is already happening in Britain, but the road to DTT in Ireland has proved to be a rocky one.

    The EU has decided that the analogue service must be switched off across Europe by 2012, and RTE has been ordered to build the new network for the digital free-to-air signal at a cost of over €100 million.

    Its success depends on commercial stations being shown on the service, so viewers will sign up for the set top boxes.

    Timing is crucial in the popularity of DTT. It will compete with Sky Digital and UPC for subscribers, which are both picking up thousands of new customers while DTT stalls. Sources involved in the DTT project say that the commercial side of the business is becoming less and less viable as each month passes.

    The slump in the Irish economy also reduces the commercial attractiveness of the project, as consumers will have less money to spend on premium packages - which is where the real money is for investors.

    One of the main stumbling blocks that DTT has faced was the decision of the initial commercial operator chosen by the Broadcasting Commission of Ireland (BCI) to pull out. Last May, the Denis O’Brien-backed consortium, Boxer, walked away from talks to run the multiplexes, or TV packages, which would broadcast on the network.

    Talks are now ongoing with OneVision, a consortium made up of Eircom and other firms. Boxer cited the changed economic environment as one of its main reasons for pulling out, an issue also facing OneVision.

    RTE, meanwhile, has slowed down its investment on the building of the network. The government has ordered RTENL, the transmission business of the state broadcaster, to build the network, but RTE decided during the summer to cap immediate investment at €40million on the project until June 2010. It does not want to build the DTT transmission network at significant cost if there is no commercial backer to run the multiplexes.

    Some €25 million had already been spent by RTE up to February 2009, leaving just €15 million available between February and June 2010. RTE had initially been expected to spend €40 million in this period.

    It was originally estimated that the DTT network would cost €120 million for RTE to build, but this has since been revised down to €111 million - and may drop even further. RTE insiders are confident that a bank will fund the project, despite a tightening in bank lending.

    The broadcaster has one multiplex on which it will air its stations, as well asTV3 andTG4.This will be a key component of DTT; however, commercial multiplexes will air the likes of Sky, Living TV and the premium movie and sports stations, which will draw in subscribers.

    RTE needs to be sure that a commercial operator will do a deal with it and the BCI, as transmission fees from this operator are the only way the broadcaster can recoup its investment in the network.

    Communications minister Eamon Ryan is bullish about the prospects of a launch next year, and his department is adamant that plans are on track. A spokeswoman said legislation was provided for RTE to develop a national DTT network and have it completely operational by the end of 2011. ‘‘The BCI process is still ongoing, and the department is hopeful of a successful conclusion to this process in the near future so that the work of launching DTT services can commence,” she said.

    However, some involved in current negotiations are less optimistic, and believe that financial support from the government is needed.

    ‘‘The government just expects everyone to work it out. When there is major national infrastructure involved, the government has to drive it completely,” said one source close to the DTT project.

    For example, a major marketing campaign has been run in Britain to inform the public of the changeover from the old analogue or television aerial system. One informed source said a comparable Irish campaign would cost €20 million. However, there are no plans by the government to invest significant funds at this point.

    The OneVision consortium is being driven by Eircom and British broadcast network company Arqiva.

    Setanta and TV3 are also investors, although their role has recently been diminished.

    Industry sources said that Eircom needed the DTT offering in order to compete with UPC, which is offering customers a ‘triple play’ - broadband, digital television and home phone line in a single package.

    Eircom is losing broadband and phone line customers to UPC, hence, getting into digital television would put them on an equal footing. The OneVision group is understood to be spending between €20 million and €30 million on DTT.

    But many stumbling blocks remain. The group may well sign up with the BCI and RTE for DTT, but it is not a certainty. Speaking to The Sunday Business Post, BCI chief executive Michael O’Keeffe said: ‘‘I am satisfied with the way the discussions are progressing with the OneVision Consortium but I would say the next month will be critical.

    ‘‘It is complex, and I think the more challenging economic environment hasn’t helped. But the engagement with OneVision has been positive.” A source close to OneVision said that ‘‘a lot of very difficult issues have to be agreed’’.

    Another source involved in the DTT project said that a launch of DTT next year was close to impossible.

    ‘‘It’s one thing for people to wish for things to happen, but people have to actually do things for DTT to happen. I think we are miles and years away from DTT, unless the government gets its skates on.”

    It is unlikely that the government will introduce any new financial initiatives for DTT, spending cuts are what is driving current planning, rather than new spending. OneVision is reviewing its original business plan in light of the drastic change in the economic environment, and the consortium will have to get approval from the BCI on these changes. The BCI has given the group a draft contract and negotiations are ongoing.

    Separate to these discussions have been talks with RTENL. RTE sought a €20 million bond or guarantee from the original consortium, and is seeking a similar one from OneVision. This proved to be a sticking point for Boxer, and is also of concern to OneVision.While the group plans to spend around €25 million on DTT, it has not budgeted for the €20 million bond.

    Another major issue is the tariff system RTE has established for DTT. RTE will make back its investment in DTT through fees for running the commercial multiplex, and RTENL will also charge RTE transmission fees for the public service multiplex.

    RTE plans to charge €3.5 million per multiplex, which would equate to annual One Vision payments of over €10million.The group sees this as too expensive; however, RTE insiders said that this pricing plan was necessary to fund the project.

    There are also concerns about the pre-analogue switch off, which will take place across Europe in 2012.The government wants DTT to be available for several months ahead of the switch-off, but there would be little incentive for customers to switchover. During this period, One Vision would pay almost full DTT transmission fees to RTE, but would have only small customer numbers.

    The DTT project is also facing pressure from UPC and Sky from a pricing point of view. One of the main attractions of DTT is the low price, but rival platforms are getting cheaper. As the aerials start to come down, RTE and the government will hope that all these problems can be ironed out.

    Also in the same newspaper, TV3 and Setanta reduce their stakes in OneVision
    TV3 and Setanta reduce stakes in DTT group OneVision
    Sunday, September 20, 2009 - By Samantha McCaughren Business Correspondent

    Television stationsTV3 and Setanta have reduced their stakes in the Digital Terrestrial Television (DTT) commercial consortium OneVision.

    The group, which is in talks to run the commercial side of the new state-owned platform, is now being driven by Eircom and British transmission company Arqiva.

    OneVision is understood to be planning to invest between €20 million and €30 million in the project.

    The group began negotiations with RTE and the Broadcasting Commission of Ireland (BCI) in May after the original consortium, Boxer, pulled out.

    Eircom, Arqiva, TV3 and Setanta were to be equal partners in OneVision. However, it is understood that Eircom and Arqiva will each hold 40 per cent of the company while TV3 and Setanta will each hold 10 per cent. This is subject to approval from the BCI.

    RTE has been mandated to build the new network for the digital free-to-air signal at a cost of more than €100 million. The old analogue free-to-air service received by aerial has to be switched off by 2012 by order of the EU. DTT’s popularity among Irish consumers depends on commercial packages being available, as well as the public service stations such as RTEO ne and RTE Two.

    OneVision is in talks with the BCI about its contract for the commercial service and with RTE regarding transmission on the new network. The changed financial environment has meant that the business proposition behind the DTT project is weakened.

    However, industry sources believe that DTT still provides a very attractive commercial opportunity for the likes of Eircom, as it would allow them to offer ‘triple play’ packages comprising broadband, phone and digital television.

    Minister for Communications Eamon Ryan is confident that the project will proceed, and a launch is expected to take place in a year’s time.

    This stage of the talks has been described as ‘‘critical’’ by sources close to the process. Other insiders said there were still obstacles to an agreement.

    The sticking points include the €10 million transmission fees being charged by RTE and the amount of a security guarantee RTE wants from the commercial operator. RTE wants to ensure that a commercial player is fully committed to the DTT project before continuing with the investment.

    It will have spent €40 million on DTT by June next year.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 23,721 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Sounds like continuing uncertainty and flapping about, is anyone surprised?

    I could well understand Eircoms interest in DTT, they are getting slaughtered by Mobile Broadband and UPC's triple play services. So being able to rollout a converged DTT and broadband IPTV/VOD service where the DTT does the most viewed channels and IPTV the rest would be very attractive to them to compete with UPC.

    I'd say Eircom would be quiet concerned if they don't get the DTT icense and UPC picks it up instead, UPC might make it very had to do the above.

    I suppose it all depends on Eircoms new owners STT and if they are willing to invest the money needed for it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    I'd say Eircom would be quiet concerned if they don't get the DTT icense and UPC picks it up instead, UPC might make it very had to do the above.

    Neither Eircom or UPC should really be involved as both are anti-competitive in the market place.

    The only reason Eircom want DTT at the moment is for their sale to Singapore Technologies Telemedia (STT).


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 558 ✭✭✭scath


    Elmo wrote: »
    Neither Eircom or UPC should really be involved as both are anti-competitive in the market place.

    The only reason Eircom want DTT at the moment is for their sale to Singapore Technologies Telemedia (STT).


    But the reality is only established players like Eircom/Arquiva and UPC have the resources to plough into DTT. DTT is strategic for both.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    scath wrote: »
    But the reality is only established players like Eircom/Arquiva and UPC have the resources to plough into DTT. DTT is strategic for both.

    Do they? or is it just a nice selling point for their investors.

    STT read their portfoilo of services: -

    Wow Meteor, Eircom Network, The Phonebook, 11811, The Golden Pages, 3G stores, and whats this plans to role out DTT :eek: and broadband :rolleyes:

    The same goes for TV3 and Setanta who are really just holding on so that the investment companies can suggest they are worth more than they actually are. IMO.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 558 ✭✭✭scath


    I think that the Minister & RTÉ should consider an alternative to RTÉ Networks borrowing to fund the DTT build and also a better return on investment for Arquiva if a company can be set up that owns the transmissions network with RTÉ Networks & Arquiva as joint owners & technical support. Rather than Onevision paying the surity bond, and rental on the muxes, Arquiva would be able to sink one-off investment and make return on its 3 muxes by over time. In that case, Arquiva might not necessarily need to be involved in the actual Pay TV operation directly, leaving that to Eircom, TV3, Setanta for the operations side of it who would pay them a rental charge instead of paying it to RTÉ.

    Might that not possibly be a more attractive option to RTÉ borrowing from the banks, and also for Arquiva? There can also be the option of the Sky Picnic situation, whereby Sky is multiplatform, which would obviously be attractive to Sky and Arquiva using one mux for UK FTA DTT in which UK broadcasters pay carriage costs.

    I feel that with the right solution there is life for a Pay DTT operation as DTT is a convenient platform, and the cheapest customer optionto get up and running with, with the FTA option that cable doesn't have.

    I feel Pay DTT combining with FTA Satellite is also a wise thing because it plays on the strengths of both, combined value for money for customer and easy switching between Sky and Onevision which is good for competition.

    If Onevision subscription option doesn't work over time, direct subcription from Sky and UPC over DTT can certainly work. It might even be an option for UPC to ditch MMDS if it can sell subscription for its Chellomedia channels over Onevision.

    What do u think? I've emailed the parties about it, because I don't think DTT here unlike the UK would be good only as FTA. There's enough capacity for FTA with RTÉ's 2 muxes, especially with DVB-T2 its just that obviously Onevision would want to have the right model with all parties gaining equitable terms out of DTT to make return on investment. Thinking outside the box is sometimes called for.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    Did you ever hear of Digico?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 558 ✭✭✭scath


    Elmo wrote: »
    Did you ever hear of Digico?

    I was wondering who would mention that first.

    Thing is, if you read in closer what I'm saying, its not the Digico model. That model was RTÉ selling its network and having a reduces stake to next to little or nothing. A strategic blunder, which could lead to an ITV Digital situation. I don't mention about RTÉ selling anything. So that makes it a different thing from Digico where RTÉ was to sell its network. RTÉ like BBC should not sell its network, that doesn't stop it from bringing in another invester to invest money in its network in return for such investor being able to do like RTÉ NL and lease to Onevision at perhaps a lower cost, due to lower coverage requirements.

    But the timing of Digico was very bad indeed and RTÉ were only having a small stake. I'm not suggesting Digico. I'm suggesting a 50/50 company or whatever derivative of that. There is more strategic sense for Arquiva I would think who are in a different league to ITs TV to invest and own infrastructure as it does in the UK than renting at RTÉ's price when it can charge its own price for carraige and rental to Eircom.

    The benefits to RTÉ is that it keeps its network but doesn't have to borrow money and sink in more, because Arquiva can do so itself. So better deal for both RTÉ NL and Onevision, competition also then in the DTT network. DVB-T2 would give RTÉ NL opportunities to do involve itself in subscription for channels like for instance learning via DIT TV/UCD TV etc...where you attend college from your TV set and internet connection. IPTV isn't there yet in terms of contention and broadband speeds in many areas.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    RTÉ wanted to do serveral things back in the late 1990s

    1. They did not want to sell their share in Cablelink they wanted TÉ do sell their's as TÉ prepared to be sold on the Stock Exchange.
    2. A 60% share in a company that would be known as Digico.

    Sile DeValera and Mary O'Rorke said no to both.

    RTÉ have had a history of the government saying no to their interest in commercial services, RTÉ CEL unlike like BBC Worldwide has been underdeveloped due to government intervention.

    RTÉ CEL just got to be part of a consortium to bid for the 2nd Mobile phone licence, which eventually went to Esat Digiphone. Ruiri Quinn as Minister for Finance. And don't forget that RTÉ were forced to sell a share of Cablelink to TÉ back in the late 1980s by Ray Burke and he put in a cap on their advertising revenue and he told them that they could not earn any more than what the licence fee was giving them while keeping the licence fee down at levels below even some Eastern Bloc countries 2nd lowest in Europe.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 558 ✭✭✭scath


    Well I've emailed all on the idea so its up to them after including the Minister what they want to do. I guess its more attractive for RTÉ NL to borrow and make back on the DTT network than share ROI with another. But in the current climate taking in an investor may be no bad thing than borrowing.


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