Do you believe the universe came from nothing

Little Mickey · 13-08-2009 09:14PM

JC 2K3 wrote: »

But where did the first something that created something else come from!!!???

I gave my opinion on that in post #39.
I just don't think it's possible to create something from nothing and like i've said already it's too complicated for any of us to guess, i'm only giving my opinion.

With regard to something coming from nothing, where did nothing come from - nothing comes from nothing IMO so something had to make nothing something.
We could make a rhyme...

ChocolateSauce · 13-08-2009 09:26PM

What I find ironic is that people say "We don't know what created the universe", and then turn around and claim they do actually know (god).

If a Christian can believe that god has always existed, or came from nothing, or created himself, why can't they extend that logic to the universe? Why not just do that and cut god out of the equation; it would make things simpler.

Flamed Diving · 13-08-2009 09:40PM

ChocolateSauce wrote: »

What I find ironic is that people say "We don't know what created the universe", and then turn around and claim they do actually know (god).

If a Christian can believe that god has always existed, or came from nothing, or created himself, why can't they extend that logic to the universe? Why not just do that and cut god out of the equation; it would make things simpler.

Something cannot come from nothing

So what created the something then?

Something...

And what created that?

Nothing...

Moronic beyond belief...

JC 2K3 · 13-08-2009 09:42PM

Little Mickey wrote: »

I gave my opinion on that in post #39.
I just don't think it's possible to create something from nothing and like i've said already it's too complicated for any of us to guess, i'm only giving my opinion.

With regard to something coming from nothing, where did nothing come from - nothing comes from nothing IMO so something had to make nothing something.
We could make a rhyme...

Oh right..

Too complicated for us to understand.....

right....

Zillah · 13-08-2009 09:51PM

Little Mickey wrote: »

I just don't think it's possible to create something from nothing and like i've said already it's too complicated for any of us to guess, i'm only giving my opinion.

It's not an opinion, it's a statement, an unfounded one. No human has ever experienced 'nothing', no human has ever experimented on 'nothing', by definition.

You might find the notion of everything from nothing to be uncomfortable but...well, tough. That may just have happened. Neither you nor I can rule it out.

Little Mickey · 13-08-2009 10:07PM

JC 2K3 wrote: »

Oh right..

Too complicated for us to understand.....

right....

I think we have the definate answer hiding somewhere with this user

JC 2K3 · 13-08-2009 10:18PM

http://d-e-f-i-n-i-t-e-l-y.com/

stevejazzx · 13-08-2009 10:27PM

JC 2K3 wrote: »

But where did the first something that created something else come from!!!???

We're programmed to believe in causality so we'll never be figure out that question. Quantum physics does however postulate a 'something from nothing' equation. Quantum theory holds that a vacuum, like atoms, is subject to quantum uncertainties. This means that things can materialize out of the vacuum, although they tend to vanish back into it quickly.
If nothing is something, it would seem to logically follow that there is NO nothing, there is only something!
Well, problem solved, the reason we can't get something from nothing is because there never was a nothing, there has always been only something!
But, what was the nature of the something that preceded our universe,
that we mistakenly thought was nothing....?

Overheal · 13-08-2009 10:34PM

I only go as far as to consider that the origins of the universe are far, far beyond the realm of any human understanding. It probably doesnt adhere to the laws of science as we know them. Similarly in Spirituality, Where does god come from? We simply cant be sure. These things are beyond understanding. We may never understand them. I am sure the concept of Nothingness and Something..ness... is also just a relative term, that we only understand because of their references to the surroundings of our universe. What then are the understandings of an entity that may only exist in the realm of Time, or the other entity that only exists in the realm of space? Or the even stranger entity, which exists in something else entirely, outside of our ability to comprehend, that does not adhere to Time and Space in any way.

OK-Cancel-Apply · 14-08-2009 12:18AM

Perhaps the Big Bang is the END of the universe, and we are actually travelling backward through time. :cool:

Zillah · 14-08-2009 12:53AM

OK-Cancel-Apply wrote: »

Perhaps the Big Bang is the END of the universe, and we are actually travelling backward through time. :cool:

At first I was like "Pff what meaningless..." and then I had a very zen moment where everything coalesced. That's pretty awesome. So assuming that the ultimate future of the universe is an infinitely spread out heatless wasteland...then the universe has always existed it's just been getting closer together and more energetic as time goes on.

Of course it begs the question, what happens after the Big Bang*

*In backwards time, of course

Tea_Bag · 14-08-2009 01:34AM

Zillah wrote: »

At first I was like "Pff what meaningless..." and then I had a very zen moment where everything coalesced. That's pretty awesome. So assuming that the ultimate future of the universe is an infinitely spread out heatless wasteland...then the universe has always existed it's just been getting closer together and more energetic as time goes on.

Of course it begs the question, what happens after the Big Bang*

*In backwards time, of course

but its not getting closer together, its growing at an alarmingly increasing rate. besides Andromeda, were moving away from all other galaxies at a rate that we'll be in deep dark space, alone, long, long before we get the technology to even imagine reaching them where they are now. throwing random theory's out there with no base to them is pointless.

marco_polo · 14-08-2009 01:41AM

Tea_Bag wrote: »

but its not getting closer together, its growing at an alarmingly increasing rate. besides Andromeda, were moving away from all other galaxies at a rate that we'll be in deep dark space, alone, long, long before we get the technology to even imagine reaching them where they are now. throwing random theory's out there with no base to them is pointless.

Em, I think he may not be being overlty serious?

Zillah · 14-08-2009 01:45AM

Tea_Bag wrote: »

but its not getting closer together, its growing at an alarmingly increasing rate. besides Andromeda, were moving away from all other galaxies at a rate that we'll be in deep dark space, alone, long, long before we get the technology to even imagine reaching them where they are now. throwing random theory's out there with no base to them is pointless.

Err, duh! We're going backwards.

Anyway you're so wrong about it being at an "alarming" rate. The very idea of being concerned that another galaxy may be too far away by the time we're bored of the Milky Way is just laughable.

paulhealy1991 · 14-08-2009 01:46AM

the real question is which came first, the chicken or the egg?????:P

Zillah · 14-08-2009 01:49AM

paulhealy1991 wrote: »

the real question is which came first, the chicken or the egg?????:P

The egg came first because chickens are birds, birds evolved from dinosaurs and dinosaurs laid eggs, ergo the egg came before the chicken.

Outkast_IRE · 14-08-2009 01:54AM

I believe there was matter and anti matter out of these two everything we know came to exist because as we know these two dont like each other very much and violent reactions are a given.
What created the matter and anti matter ? As far as im concerned this universe, galaxy or whatever could just be part of a molocule of something as simple as a blade of grass.
Something created it , have no doubt about that , nobody can ever deny that there is something greater out there than we can even comprehend right now .
I babble on but the best way to explain it to the lay person is ,
remember the bag of marbles at the end of men in black thats us a marble in a bag of marbles possibly in a game of marbles by other creatures.

I actually lay awake nights thinking about this stuff!!!!!!!!!

Outkast_IRE · 14-08-2009 01:56AM

Zillah wrote: »

The egg came first because chickens are birds, birds evolved from dinosaurs and dinosaurs laid eggs, ergo the egg came before the chicken.

One camp holds that the egg must have come first. There were direct ancestors of the modern chicken which did indeed produce eggs. While most of those eggs produced genetic copies of the ancestral bird species, a few eggs may have contained enough genetic mutations to create the first modern chicken, albeit from two non-chicken parents. Therefore, the first modern chicken must have been hatched from a egg which no longer contained the genetic coding to reproduce the ancestral bird species.
Another camp suggests that the chicken came first. Through the concept of creationism, one could argue that God created all species of animals, including the modern chicken. There was no genetic mutation necessary; chickens reproduce themselves through the fertilization of egg cells, which would naturally mean the chicken arrived first on the planet and the egg is always going to be one generation behind.

ChocolateSauce · 14-08-2009 02:01AM

Outkast_IRE wrote: »

I believe there was matter and anti matter out of these two everything we know came to exist because as we know these two dont like each other very much and violent reactions are a given.
What created the matter and anti matter ? As far as im concerned this universe, galaxy or whatever could just be part of a molocule of something as simple as a blade of grass.
Something created it , have no doubt about that , nobody can ever deny that there is something greater out there than we can even comprehend right now .
I babble on but the best way to explain it to the lay person is ,
remember the bag of marbles at the end of men in black thats us a marble in a bag of marbles possibly in a game of marbles by other creatures.

I actually lay awake nights thinking about this stuff!!!!!!!!!

Unless you lie awake at night doing experiments or writing universe-affirming maths, your opinions are pretty worthless, no offense intended.

Tea_Bag · 14-08-2009 02:06AM

Zillah wrote: »

Anyway you're so wrong about it being at an "alarming" rate.

why? are you not alarmed that the universe is expanding under a force we cant see/study or test. dark matter is still only a theory.

Zillah wrote: »

The very idea of being concerned that another galaxy may be too far away by the time we're bored of the Milky Way is just laughable.

noone said anything about being bored of the milky way.

and i will not appologise for having my horizons set further than you.
i believe that intergalactic travel may have been a possibility in the future if we werent moving away from most of them at the speed of light.

ChocolateSauce · 14-08-2009 02:13AM

Tea_Bag wrote: »

why? are you not alarmed that the universe is expanding under a force we cant see/study or test. dark matter is still only a theory.

It's been expanding for the last 15 billion years with no harm done in general. Dark matter is essentially an "x" or unknown that we invented to explain a fact that we observed, namely that gravity-wise the universe behaves as though there is far more matter in it than we can actually see. We call it dark matter because as far as we know, only matter can produce gravity.

Zillah · 14-08-2009 02:25AM

Tea_Bag wrote: »

and i will not appologise for having my horizons set further than you.

Oh dear, now you've done it.

Let me explain all the stupid things you've managed to state in a very short period of time:

- Dark Matter is not a theory. The phenomenon which is referred to as dark matter is a demonstrable fact. The explanation for that fact is not yet clear. It is also irrelevant to the topic because dark energy is stronger than the gravity of dark matter and hence has no bearing at all.

- We will not be in "deep dark space, alone", the Milky Way has somewhere between 200 and 400 billion stars. That's as much as 60+ stars per person on the planet.

- The very idea of being concerned with reaching another galaxy before we've done a great deal of exploration within our own galaxy is laughable.

- To even contemplate reaching another galaxy we would have to have faster than light travel, in which case the actual distance of the target point may be irrelevant.

- Other galaxies are already so far away that a few thousand years will make virtually no difference. Predictions on our rate of technological development would suggest that if FTL technology is possible then we are likely to develop it long before the rate of universal expansion is an issue.

Your horizons are no further than mine, it's just that mine are consistent with reality.

Flamed Diving · 14-08-2009 08:27AM

Outkast_IRE wrote: »

One camp holds that the egg must have come first. There were direct ancestors of the modern chicken which did indeed produce eggs. While most of those eggs produced genetic copies of the ancestral bird species, a few eggs may have contained enough genetic mutations to create the first modern chicken, albeit from two non-chicken parents. Therefore, the first modern chicken must have been hatched from a egg which no longer contained the genetic coding to reproduce the ancestral bird species.
Another camp suggests that the chicken came first. Through the concept of creationism, one could argue that God created all species of animals, including the modern chicken. There was no genetic mutation necessary; chickens reproduce themselves through the fertilization of egg cells, which would naturally mean the chicken arrived first on the planet and the egg is always going to be one generation behind.

You forgot about my equally valid theory. The chicken came first, and eggs don't really exist at all, due to an intergalatic government conspiracy. They just keep placing chickens around the place, when no one is looking.

OK-Cancel-Apply · 14-08-2009 10:27AM

Zillah wrote: »

At first I was like "Pff what meaningless..." and then I had a very zen moment where everything coalesced. That's pretty awesome. So assuming that the ultimate future of the universe is an infinitely spread out heatless wasteland...then the universe has always existed it's just been getting closer together and more energetic as time goes on.

Of course it begs the question, what happens after the Big Bang*

*In backwards time, of course

Hehe. Well, nothing needs to happen after the big bang, coz that's the end of everything!

Perhaps we humans will actually CREATE the universe at some point in the future! Maybe the whole thing was our fault all along!

I'm reminding myself of the last episode of Star Trek TNG: "All Good Things".

Outkast_IRE · 14-08-2009 11:14AM

ChocolateSauce wrote: »

Unless you lie awake at night doing experiments or writing universe-affirming maths, your opinions are pretty worthless, no offense intended.

Well its an opinion, its better than just believing in nothing.I dont have to lie awake doing the math Hawking and many others do the math. As i said its an opinion and unless you prove otherwise its as equally valid as the next.

mickoneill30 · 14-08-2009 11:19AM

OK-Cancel-Apply wrote: »

Hehe. Well, nothing needs to happen after the big bang, coz that's the end of everything!

Perhaps we humans will actually CREATE the universe at some point in the future! Maybe the whole thing was our fault all along!

That reminded me of this Asimov story.
http://www.multivax.com/last_question.html
written 53 years ago but way ahead of his time.

dvpower · 14-08-2009 11:21AM

death1234567 wrote: »

If God created the universe where did God come from?

Its turtles all the way down.

Sam Vimes · 14-08-2009 11:26AM

Outkast_IRE wrote: »

Well its an opinion, its better than just believing in nothing.

That's a matter of opinion. Personally I believe in things if they can be shown to exist, not if I would like them to exist

Outkast_IRE wrote: »

I dont have to lie awake doing the math Hawking and many others do the math. As i said its an opinion and unless you prove otherwise its as equally valid as the next.

I believe the universe was created by my mate Dave on Tuesday May 5th 2009 and anything before that is an illusion. Can you prove me wrong? And if not does that mean that my opinion is as valid as any other?

Flamed Diving · 14-08-2009 11:38AM

Sam Vimes wrote: »

I believe the universe was created by my mate Dave on Tuesday May 5th 2009 and anything before that is an illusion. Can you prove me wrong? And if not does that mean that my opinion is as valid as any other?

*tut*

It was Steve, on Monday the 4th of May.

Heathen.

Outkast_IRE · 14-08-2009 11:48AM

Sam Vimes wrote: »

That's a matter of opinion. Personally I believe in things if they can be shown to exist, not if I would like them to exist

I believe the universe was created by my mate Dave on Tuesday May 5th 2009 and anything before that is an illusion. Can you prove me wrong? And if not does that mean that my opinion is as valid as any other?

Well the problem there is you dont really believe it ... your just saying it to try and make some unknown point .........
Believe whatever you want to , if you believe your mate dave made it , good for you go worship at mighty daves feet if you so wish .

Do you believe the universe came from nothing

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