A few questions about Cadetships

MickJB1989 · 12-08-2009 11:43AM #1

Hello All,

I'm seriously considering applying for a Cadetship, not this year, as I have one year left to go at uni, I'm aiming for 2010 entrance, hopefully they'll be running another competition this time next year!

Anyway, I figure this gives me a year to clear up any issues with my qualifications (and get the old fitness level up to scratch

), and I was wondering if some of you guys could answer some questions for me.

1. As I'll hopefully have an honours degree in law by the time I apply, this year's competition guidelines say I only need Maths and English (or Irish), plus any four other subjects to be considered for entry. The only problem is, as I've been educated in Scotland, I have 5 Scottish Highers (Maths, English, History, Chemistry, Modern Studies), rather than the 6 Highers of an Irish Leaving Cert. Will this be a problem for my application?

2. The 2009 Competition Booklet says that candidates will be subject to additional medical examinations and testing, after the fitness/ flexibility/ hearing tests, but doesn't really go into detail as to what these will entail. Any ideas what I'll be put through, so I can see about making sure I'll meet all requirements?

Cheers,

Mick

Delta Kilo · 12-08-2009 01:43PM

Email/phone the recruitment section and they will tell you. As for question 1, I haven't a clue. Wait until this years competition is over before you make enquiries, you will have more of a chance of being replied to. Give them a chance to reply as well. I made an enquiry last year. After a week of waiting, I decided to email somebody else. Then, I got 2 replies, one from each, within half an hour of each other, with 2 completely different answers, both turned out to be wrong!

You are probably best off ringing them.

Unpossible · 12-08-2009 02:14PM

I have a question too, I think its best to ask it here.
In the requirements for vision it asks for 6/18 . What exactly is that? Anytime I have ever been to the opticians they used a decimal system. Mine is -3.5 is that anywhere close ?

MickJB1989 · 12-08-2009 02:55PM

@Delta Kilo: Cheers for the reply, I'll be sure to give them a ring after this one finishes, just wanted to be sure about things before wasting their time making formal inquires.

@Unpossible, I'm not too sure how that translates with the vision thing, mine is worse than yours IIRC, around -5 or so. I'm going to opticians shortly to get sight tested again and ask them how the vision requirements translate. Bear in mind that 6/18 is the acceptable result for your corrected vision, uncorrected is lower, so do accept people with glasses, just depends on how strong a prescription you need to be brought up to the 6/18 standard I believe. Any of you guys who know more about the PDF or Eyesight feel free to correct me on this.

pmg58 · 12-08-2009 06:07PM

MickJB, you have it the wrong way around, its 6/18 uncorrected in both eyes, corrected to 6/6 in one eye and 6/9 in the other. As to what that means...I'm not entirely sure but I believe that 6/6 is the same as 20/20, possibly metric and imperial systems?

Also, I don't think your education will be a problem, different educational systems work in different ways so they'll take that into account I'd say. For example if you were from Northern Ireland you'd probably have 3 A levels, obviously they would use common sense dealing with this.

pmg58 · 12-08-2009 06:09PM

Just found this, might help explain the eyesight: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visual_acuity

concussion · 12-08-2009 06:16PM

The DF has three grades - with a grade 3 you can enlist for general service but cannot apply for a cadetship. I'm a border line grade 3 (barely made it in) and I'm -3.00 and -3.75. I have no idea what this is in xx/xx but you need a grade one to be eligible for a cadetship.

tribulus · 12-08-2009 06:44PM

6/18 just means you need to able to read the 5th line down on the chart they get you to look at. (i.e 6/6 is the 1st line, 6/9 the second etc.)

I'm fortunate enough to be 6/6 but I'd say unless your uncorrected vision is very poor then you'll be okay.

Edit: You can be 6/6 in one eye and 6/9 etc. in the other.

Husqvarna · 12-08-2009 06:45PM

OP, I can only conclude that you're on here chancing your arm regarding a cadetship. Anyone who had any real interest in the DF would take the opportunity to join now as there are NO guarantees that there will be a competition of any sort next year.

Furthermore, you would also realise that with 3 years of a 4-year degree completed, the DF would probably allow you complete your final year after your cadetship.

Considering you don't know this fairly basic information, I can only conclude you haven't done much research, and ergo are not particularly interested in becoming a commissioned officer in the Defence Forces.

pmg58 · 12-08-2009 06:50PM

Christ thats a bit harsh, plenty of people don't want to apply for it until after their degrees. Some don't want to interrupt their studies, others don't want to owe their lives to the DF for putting them through college.

tribulus · 12-08-2009 06:51PM

Husqvarna wrote: »

OP, I can only conclude that you're on here chancing your arm regarding a cadetship. Anyone who had any real interest in the DF would take the opportunity to join now as there are NO guarantees that there will be a competition of any sort next year.

Furthermore, you would also realise that with 3 years of a 4-year degree completed, the DF would probably allow you complete your final year after your cadetship.

Considering you don't know this fairly basic information, I can only conclude you haven't done much research, and ergo are not particularly interested in becoming a commissioned officer in the Defence Forces.

With respect I don't think that's entirely fair. The majority of people applying will have honours degrees and are eligible for a 10 point bonus (it's not a 10% bonus like they say, so depending on your final score a 10 point bonus could be significantly more than 10%) so he's immediately at a disadvantage.

I do agree though that he's got nothing to lose by applying this year. At best he's awarded a cadetship, at worst he's gained some good experience for the next competition.

Husqvarna · 12-08-2009 06:58PM

pmg58 wrote: »

Christ thats a bit harsh, plenty of people don't want to apply for it until after their degrees. Some don't want to interrupt their studies, others don't want to owe their lives to the DF for putting them through college.

No, it's not harsh. If you want to be an officer, and the opportunity exists this year, then you should go for it, studies or no studies.

It's silly to suggest that the DF will require your life for a year in college, more like 2 years of contract. Let's not descend into exaggeration for no reason.

As for the 10% comment also raised, ask yourself this: is it better to apply this year when there is a competition running and I don't have a 10% bonus, or apply next year when I might have a 10% bonus but no cadet competition running?

It's a no-brainer to me. The Min for Defence had to go to the Min for Finance this year to get an exemption from the recruitment embargo for a cadet intake this year, there are no guarantees the Min for Finance will be as generous next year.

tribulus · 12-08-2009 07:02PM

Husqvarna wrote: »

No, it's not harsh. If you want to be an officer, and the opportunity exists this year, then you should go for it, studies or no studies.

It's silly to suggest that the DF will require your life for a year in college, more like 2 years of contract. Let's not descend into exaggeration for no reason.

As for the 10% comment also raised, ask yourself this: is it better to apply this year when there is a competition running and I don't have a 10% bonus, or apply next year when I might have a 10% bonus but no cadet competition running?

It's a no-brainer to me. The Min for Defence had to go to the Min for Finance this year to get an exemption from the recruitment embargo for a cadet intake this year, there are no guarantees the Min for Finance will be as generous next year.

I agree that there's no harm at all in applying this year I just don't think it's fair to assume he's chancing his arm or doesn't have a real interest in it.

pmg58 · 12-08-2009 07:05PM

Its 3 years service for each year in college actually. Anyway I'm sure there are plenty of other reasons that people could have to not want to apply this year. And its not as if its the last time the DF will ever run a cadetship.

Husqvarna · 12-08-2009 07:14PM

Honestly, if he thinks that he needs a year to clarify whether his Scottish results are acceptable or not, and to get his fitness up to scratch (!), then maybe Army officer isn't the kind of job he's looking for. Something more pedestrian in pace perhaps.

And on another point, it's 2 years under new contract terms.

pmg58 · 12-08-2009 07:16PM

Maybe you should read his post again, or are you just pretending to misunderstand it to try to make a point?

Husqvarna · 12-08-2009 07:20PM

Pretending to misunderstand what? I don't get what you're saying.

pmg58 · 12-08-2009 07:26PM

He said he'll be applying next year so that he'll be finished his degree, but that during that time he would improve his fitness and get the qualifications sorted.

Delta Kilo · 12-08-2009 07:32PM

I think he is best off holding out until next year so that he can clarify if he meets the entry requirements and improve his fitness. If he is going to apply this year, it could very well do him harm. He could (no offence) make a show of himself as he possibly knows very little about the DF, or fail miserably at the fitness test. If he does this, and applies again next year, he will have to put it in in the application form. They will think, oh here is this Scottish chancer again. He will be in the bad books already.

It is not fair to hold his fitness against him either. He could be unfit presently for any amount of reasons, health issues etc. He has a year to rectify it and be in pristine fitness for next years (possible) cadetship.

In fact, I applaud him for holding out and getting things right to give himself the best chance of getting in eventually. It shows a level of maturity that clearly, you don't have.

Husqvarna · 12-08-2009 07:32PM

Yeah, I get that bit, but my sole point is that there may not be a competition next year, and if I were in his position I wouldn't be waiting around a year for a competition that may not happen if a cadetship is what I really wanted. And let's be honest, this year of all years they're not going to have a problem picking the guys who really want it badly given the jobs landscape out there.

If he goes into the interview with the flippant attitude that is suggested in the tone of his post, I suspect that a board of Army officers will see through it.

Just my opinion, not trying to upset anyone or imply that he's not entitled to finish college or whatever. But if it was me going for a cadetship, I'd be bursting my gut to be at the top of the pack and not waiting a year to sort my results or fitness or whatever.

That's all.

Husqvarna · 12-08-2009 07:34PM

Delta Kilo wrote: »

It shows a level of maturity that clearly, you don't have.

This is not a personal slagging match. Make constructive points or none at all

Delta Kilo · 12-08-2009 07:41PM

Husqvarna wrote: »

If he goes into the interview with the flippant attitude that is suggested in the tone of his post, I suspect that a board of Army officers will see through it.

I think you need to practice what you preach sir.

Husqvarna wrote:

Make constructive points or none at all

I know you are new here, but back-seat modding is not appreciated across the site either

Husqvarna · 12-08-2009 07:51PM

Delta Kilo wrote: »

I think you need to practice what you preach sir.

What do you mean by this? That the tone of the opening post was not in fact flippant, or that my subsequent posts have been fllippant towards the poster?

I'm not here to talk down the individual who posted the questions. I'm suggesting that:
a) there may be no competition next year so waiting would not be an option for me if I were in his shoes,

b) results could be clarified with an email, it wouldn't take a year.

c) fitness is an integral part of a cadetship, if you need a year to get it right, you're not going to be cadet material in the first place.

None of that is flippant in its tone or content, just how things are. Cadetships are not easy to come by. You should know DK.

pmg58 · 12-08-2009 07:58PM

Husqvarna wrote: »

I'm not here to talk down the individual who posted the questions.

Accusing him of chancing his arm?

a) there may be no competition next year so waiting would not be an option for me if I were in his shoes,

I'm sure he can make his own decisions.

b) results could be clarified with an email, it wouldn't take a year.

Still stuck on this point?

c) fitness is an integral part of a cadetship, if you need a year to get it right, you're not going to be cadet material in the first place.

And this?

You should know DK.

Grow up.

Husqvarna · 12-08-2009 08:15PM

Sorry you're all so touchy tonight chaps. I suspect the OP has probably got some insight from my tuppence worth . However, each to their own. Thank you for taking the time to reply to my comments and enjoy your night.

MickJB1989 · 12-08-2009 08:17PM

@PMG 58: Thanks for clearing that up about the vision test. I'd hate to wind up not getting in on it, but so far as I can tell it seems to be my biggest hurdle.

Husqvarna wrote: »

OP, I can only conclude that you're on here chancing your arm regarding a cadetship. Anyone who had any real interest in the DF would take the opportunity to join now as there are NO guarantees that there will be a competition of any sort next year.

Furthermore, you would also realise that with 3 years of a 4-year degree completed, the DF would probably allow you complete your final year after your cadetship.

I have wanted to join the PDF since I was 16, I'm 20 now, and will have just turned 21 when I finish my degree. I see myself being of much more use to the DF after I complete my degree, for the following reasons: (a) they won't have to pay to put me through a degree at NUI Galway - the PDF is overstretched and have enough buget concerns as it is without paying for my education; (b) in addition, this means they could deploy me overseas as soon as my cadetship is completed, if that is required; (c), based on my Scottish Highers alone, I definitely wouldn't make the cut, as I don't have a second language, which is a mandatory requirement for Competition Entrants who don't have a degree; (d) In light of point B, I have focused my degree on military law, for example, in my final honours year I will be studying International Criminal Law, International Law and Problems of World Order, writing a dissertation of the Laws of War, and participating in the European Human Rights Project.

I've also been working on extra-curriculars in order to impress the interview panel and show them exactly why I would be the right stuff for the PDF. I play Gaelic with Glasgow Uni (was Secretary last year) and have started target shooting (not really similar to military shooting I know, but better than nothing), and after less than 2 months I'm shooting an average of 82.2.

Considering you don't know this fairly basic information, I can only conclude you haven't done much research, and ergo are not particularly interested in becoming a commissioned officer in the Defence Forces

The reason I came onto this forum was to do research, and a year in advance of when I will hopefully be applying. The information I sought wasn't exactly basic, my main concern was with regards to the translation of qualifications, and in depth material regarding the entrance examinations. In the Cadetship Competition Booklet for 2009, it does not go into detail beyond the 1.5 miles in 11min 40secs, and 20 push-ups and sit-ups in a minute, all of which are a non-issue for me. I can do double the required sit-ups/ press ups in the alloted time, and the run will not be a problem either. The issues of fitness I referred with regards to improving related to flexibility and eye-sight, nothing else. The standards of flexibility were not detailed in the booklet, so I came here as my first port of call.

Yeah, I get that bit, but my sole point is that there may not be a competition next year, and if I were in his position I wouldn't be waiting around a year for a competition that may not happen if a cadetship is what I really wanted. And let's be honest, this year of all years they're not going to have a problem picking the guys who really want it badly given the jobs landscape out there.

See above, I wouldn't get in without a degree.

If he goes into the interview with the flippant attitude that is suggested in the tone of his post, I suspect that a board of Army officers will see through it.

I was completely unaware of any flippant attitude on my part (and still am for that matter), but if I have inadvertadly offended anyone then I appologise.

a) there may be no competition next year so waiting would not be an option for me if I were in his shoes,

b) results could be clarified with an email, it wouldn't take a year.

c) fitness is an integral part of a cadetship, if you need a year to get it right, you're not going to be cadet material in the first place.

a) Unfortunately, you are correct, but as I have said above, without a second language at higher level, I would be denied entry without a degree. However, the maximum age for Cadetship applicants with Degrees is stated as 28 in this year's booklet, meaning that if there is no competition next year, I will not be left high and dry.

b) I would imagine the PDF are fairly busy, especially as they are in the middle of a competition, so rather than bother them at the moment I thought it would be easier to test the water here

c) See above, my fitness regarding the run and muscular strength/ endurance is not an issue.

Unpossible · 12-08-2009 08:28PM

tribulus wrote: »

6/18 just means you need to able to read the 5th line down on the chart they get you to look at. (i.e 6/6 is the 1st line, 6/9 the second etc.)

So if I can read the fifth line in the opticians without glasses its 6/18. With my glasses I'm easily 6/6 but I'm definitly not 6/18 without them

this is the main reason I never applied before I was always worried my eyesight wasn't up for it.

pmg58 · 12-08-2009 08:31PM

MickJB, this link should help you with the fitness test: http://www.military.ie/careers/fitness.htm
To be honest it doesn't seem particularly hard, just pay attention to the situps, the technique can be different to what many people are used to.

The hearing test can be quite difficult, but just follow the advice given and you should be fine if your hearing is good enough.

You seem happy enough about the eyesight question.

Flexibility testing...I don't really know what that involves, I'd imagine that if you regularly play sports then you'll more than likely be okay.

My knowledge of what the medical involves is fairly limited. Besides the hearing and eyesight (already covered), there'll also be a colour vision test (same as this really: http://www.toledo-bend.com/colorblind/Ishihara.asp). Blood pressure, height, weight, basically what you'd expect. Other elements, maybe urine sample, blood test, physical examination? I don't know, but I'd say so.

And best of luck with final year, sounds like you really are preparing well for the cadets so good luck!

concussion · 12-08-2009 11:57PM

Flexibility is tested with a sit and reach board - basically you sit down with your legs straight and your feet against a wooden box. You then sit forward and reach as far as you can with your knees locked out. There is a scale on the top and they record how far you can stretch. Unfortunately I don't know what the requirements are, I reckon being able to touch your toes would be a start though!

A urine sample will be taken to check glucose levels, pmg58 has the rest covered.

Be aware that the entry fitness test is a bare minimum to enter, you should really be looking at a grade 1 or 2 in the annual fitness test as a guide (not directed at you op, just a generality for those reading this)

Edit - I see there's an extra 10 seconds for the run, interesting.

pmg58 wrote: »

To be honest it doesn't seem particularly hard, just pay attention to the situps, the technique can be different to what many people are used to.

Bang on there, I've seen so many people fail utterly because the technique was different to the one they practiced.

tribulus · 13-08-2009 12:35AM

Unpossible wrote: »

So if I can read the fifth line in the opticians without glasses its 6/18. With my glasses I'm easily 6/6 but I'm definitly not 6/18 without them this is the main reason I never applied before I was always worried my eyesight wasn't up for it.

I'm not an optician or doctor or anything, I'm just going off what they did last year.

If you read the requirements again you'll see 6/6 is okay for corrected vision.

The medicals are understandably a worry for a lot of people but there's not a lot you can do about it so instead just focus on getting to the medical phase i.e. the last phase in the first place!

blondie83 · 13-08-2009 02:17AM

pmg58 wrote: »

MickJB, this link should help you with the fitness test: http://www.military.ie/careers/fitness.htm
To be honest it doesn't seem particularly hard, just pay attention to the situps, the technique can be different to what many people are used to.

Thanks for that pmg, handy to know the correct technique...does anyone else think the sit-up guy looks like he's in a lot of pain!

pmg58 wrote: »

The hearing test can be quite difficult, but just follow the advice given and you should be fine if your hearing is good enough

Ah no don't say that, I'm practically going around with earmuffs on my ears as it is, just in case! :eek:

A few questions about Cadetships

Comments