A few questions about Cadetships

MickJB1989

Hello All,

I'm seriously considering applying for a Cadetship, not this year, as I have one year left to go at uni, I'm aiming for 2010 entrance, hopefully they'll be running another competition this time next year!

Anyway, I figure this gives me a year to clear up any issues with my qualifications (and get the old fitness level up to scratch ), and I was wondering if some of you guys could answer some questions for me.

1. As I'll hopefully have an honours degree in law by the time I apply, this year's competition guidelines say I only need Maths and English (or Irish), plus any four other subjects to be considered for entry. The only problem is, as I've been educated in Scotland, I have 5 Scottish Highers (Maths, English, History, Chemistry, Modern Studies), rather than the 6 Highers of an Irish Leaving Cert. Will this be a problem for my application?

2. The 2009 Competition Booklet says that candidates will be subject to additional medical examinations and testing, after the fitness/ flexibility/ hearing tests, but doesn't really go into detail as to what these will entail. Any ideas what I'll be put through, so I can see about making sure I'll meet all requirements?

Cheers,

Mick

Delta Kilo

Email/phone the recruitment section and they will tell you. As for question 1, I haven't a clue. Wait until this years competition is over before you make enquiries, you will have more of a chance of being replied to. Give them a chance to reply as well. I made an enquiry last year. After a week of waiting, I decided to email somebody else. Then, I got 2 replies, one from each, within half an hour of each other, with 2 completely different answers, both turned out to be wrong!

You are probably best off ringing them.

Unpossible

I have a question too, I think its best to ask it here.
In the requirements for vision it asks for 6/18 . What exactly is that? Anytime I have ever been to the opticians they used a decimal system. Mine is -3.5 is that anywhere close ?

MickJB1989

@Delta Kilo: Cheers for the reply, I'll be sure to give them a ring after this one finishes, just wanted to be sure about things before wasting their time making formal inquires.

@Unpossible, I'm not too sure how that translates with the vision thing, mine is worse than yours IIRC, around -5 or so. I'm going to opticians shortly to get sight tested again and ask them how the vision requirements translate. Bear in mind that 6/18 is the acceptable result for your corrected vision, uncorrected is lower, so do accept people with glasses, just depends on how strong a prescription you need to be brought up to the 6/18 standard I believe. Any of you guys who know more about the PDF or Eyesight feel free to correct me on this.

pmg58

MickJB, you have it the wrong way around, its 6/18 uncorrected in both eyes, corrected to 6/6 in one eye and 6/9 in the other. As to what that means...I'm not entirely sure but I believe that 6/6 is the same as 20/20, possibly metric and imperial systems?

Also, I don't think your education will be a problem, different educational systems work in different ways so they'll take that into account I'd say. For example if you were from Northern Ireland you'd probably have 3 A levels, obviously they would use common sense dealing with this.

pmg58

Just found this, might help explain the eyesight: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visual_acuity

concussion

The DF has three grades - with a grade 3 you can enlist for general service but cannot apply for a cadetship. I'm a border line grade 3 (barely made it in) and I'm -3.00 and -3.75. I have no idea what this is in xx/xx but you need a grade one to be eligible for a cadetship.

tribulus

6/18 just means you need to able to read the 5th line down on the chart they get you to look at. (i.e 6/6 is the 1st line, 6/9 the second etc.)

I'm fortunate enough to be 6/6 but I'd say unless your uncorrected vision is very poor then you'll be okay.

Edit: You can be 6/6 in one eye and 6/9 etc. in the other.

Husqvarna

OP, I can only conclude that you're on here chancing your arm regarding a cadetship. Anyone who had any real interest in the DF would take the opportunity to join now as there are NO guarantees that there will be a competition of any sort next year.

Furthermore, you would also realise that with 3 years of a 4-year degree completed, the DF would probably allow you complete your final year after your cadetship.

Considering you don't know this fairly basic information, I can only conclude you haven't done much research, and ergo are not particularly interested in becoming a commissioned officer in the Defence Forces.

pmg58

Christ thats a bit harsh, plenty of people don't want to apply for it until after their degrees. Some don't want to interrupt their studies, others don't want to owe their lives to the DF for putting them through college.

tribulus

Husqvarna wrote: »

OP, I can only conclude that you're on here chancing your arm regarding a cadetship. Anyone who had any real interest in the DF would take the opportunity to join now as there are NO guarantees that there will be a competition of any sort next year.

Furthermore, you would also realise that with 3 years of a 4-year degree completed, the DF would probably allow you complete your final year after your cadetship.

Considering you don't know this fairly basic information, I can only conclude you haven't done much research, and ergo are not particularly interested in becoming a commissioned officer in the Defence Forces.

With respect I don't think that's entirely fair. The majority of people applying will have honours degrees and are eligible for a 10 point bonus (it's not a 10% bonus like they say, so depending on your final score a 10 point bonus could be significantly more than 10%) so he's immediately at a disadvantage.

I do agree though that he's got nothing to lose by applying this year. At best he's awarded a cadetship, at worst he's gained some good experience for the next competition.

Husqvarna

pmg58 wrote: »

Christ thats a bit harsh, plenty of people don't want to apply for it until after their degrees. Some don't want to interrupt their studies, others don't want to owe their lives to the DF for putting them through college.

No, it's not harsh. If you want to be an officer, and the opportunity exists this year, then you should go for it, studies or no studies.

It's silly to suggest that the DF will require your life for a year in college, more like 2 years of contract. Let's not descend into exaggeration for no reason.

As for the 10% comment also raised, ask yourself this: is it better to apply this year when there is a competition running and I don't have a 10% bonus, or apply next year when I might have a 10% bonus but no cadet competition running?

It's a no-brainer to me. The Min for Defence had to go to the Min for Finance this year to get an exemption from the recruitment embargo for a cadet intake this year, there are no guarantees the Min for Finance will be as generous next year.

tribulus

Husqvarna wrote: »

No, it's not harsh. If you want to be an officer, and the opportunity exists this year, then you should go for it, studies or no studies.

It's silly to suggest that the DF will require your life for a year in college, more like 2 years of contract. Let's not descend into exaggeration for no reason.

As for the 10% comment also raised, ask yourself this: is it better to apply this year when there is a competition running and I don't have a 10% bonus, or apply next year when I might have a 10% bonus but no cadet competition running?

It's a no-brainer to me. The Min for Defence had to go to the Min for Finance this year to get an exemption from the recruitment embargo for a cadet intake this year, there are no guarantees the Min for Finance will be as generous next year.

I agree that there's no harm at all in applying this year I just don't think it's fair to assume he's chancing his arm or doesn't have a real interest in it.

pmg58

Its 3 years service for each year in college actually. Anyway I'm sure there are plenty of other reasons that people could have to not want to apply this year. And its not as if its the last time the DF will ever run a cadetship.

Husqvarna

Honestly, if he thinks that he needs a year to clarify whether his Scottish results are acceptable or not, and to get his fitness up to scratch (!), then maybe Army officer isn't the kind of job he's looking for. Something more pedestrian in pace perhaps.

And on another point, it's 2 years under new contract terms.

pmg58

Maybe you should read his post again, or are you just pretending to misunderstand it to try to make a point?

Husqvarna

Pretending to misunderstand what? I don't get what you're saying.

pmg58

He said he'll be applying next year so that he'll be finished his degree, but that during that time he would improve his fitness and get the qualifications sorted.

Delta Kilo

I think he is best off holding out until next year so that he can clarify if he meets the entry requirements and improve his fitness. If he is going to apply this year, it could very well do him harm. He could (no offence) make a show of himself as he possibly knows very little about the DF, or fail miserably at the fitness test. If he does this, and applies again next year, he will have to put it in in the application form. They will think, oh here is this Scottish chancer again. He will be in the bad books already.

It is not fair to hold his fitness against him either. He could be unfit presently for any amount of reasons, health issues etc. He has a year to rectify it and be in pristine fitness for next years (possible) cadetship.

In fact, I applaud him for holding out and getting things right to give himself the best chance of getting in eventually. It shows a level of maturity that clearly, you don't have.

Husqvarna

Yeah, I get that bit, but my sole point is that there may not be a competition next year, and if I were in his position I wouldn't be waiting around a year for a competition that may not happen if a cadetship is what I really wanted. And let's be honest, this year of all years they're not going to have a problem picking the guys who really want it badly given the jobs landscape out there.

If he goes into the interview with the flippant attitude that is suggested in the tone of his post, I suspect that a board of Army officers will see through it.

Just my opinion, not trying to upset anyone or imply that he's not entitled to finish college or whatever. But if it was me going for a cadetship, I'd be bursting my gut to be at the top of the pack and not waiting a year to sort my results or fitness or whatever.

That's all.

Husqvarna

Delta Kilo wrote: »

It shows a level of maturity that clearly, you don't have.

This is not a personal slagging match. Make constructive points or none at all

Delta Kilo

Husqvarna wrote: »

If he goes into the interview with the flippant attitude that is suggested in the tone of his post, I suspect that a board of Army officers will see through it.

I think you need to practice what you preach sir.

Husqvarna wrote:

Make constructive points or none at all

I know you are new here, but back-seat modding is not appreciated across the site either

Husqvarna

Delta Kilo wrote: »

I think you need to practice what you preach sir.

What do you mean by this? That the tone of the opening post was not in fact flippant, or that my subsequent posts have been fllippant towards the poster?

I'm not here to talk down the individual who posted the questions. I'm suggesting that:
a) there may be no competition next year so waiting would not be an option for me if I were in his shoes,

b) results could be clarified with an email, it wouldn't take a year.

c) fitness is an integral part of a cadetship, if you need a year to get it right, you're not going to be cadet material in the first place.

None of that is flippant in its tone or content, just how things are. Cadetships are not easy to come by. You should know DK.

pmg58

Husqvarna wrote: »

I'm not here to talk down the individual who posted the questions.

Accusing him of chancing his arm?

a) there may be no competition next year so waiting would not be an option for me if I were in his shoes,

I'm sure he can make his own decisions.

b) results could be clarified with an email, it wouldn't take a year.

Still stuck on this point?

c) fitness is an integral part of a cadetship, if you need a year to get it right, you're not going to be cadet material in the first place.

And this?

You should know DK.

Grow up.

Husqvarna

Sorry you're all so touchy tonight chaps. I suspect the OP has probably got some insight from my tuppence worth . However, each to their own. Thank you for taking the time to reply to my comments and enjoy your night.

MickJB1989

@PMG 58: Thanks for clearing that up about the vision test. I'd hate to wind up not getting in on it, but so far as I can tell it seems to be my biggest hurdle.

Husqvarna wrote: »

OP, I can only conclude that you're on here chancing your arm regarding a cadetship. Anyone who had any real interest in the DF would take the opportunity to join now as there are NO guarantees that there will be a competition of any sort next year.

Furthermore, you would also realise that with 3 years of a 4-year degree completed, the DF would probably allow you complete your final year after your cadetship.

I have wanted to join the PDF since I was 16, I'm 20 now, and will have just turned 21 when I finish my degree. I see myself being of much more use to the DF after I complete my degree, for the following reasons: (a) they won't have to pay to put me through a degree at NUI Galway - the PDF is overstretched and have enough buget concerns as it is without paying for my education; (b) in addition, this means they could deploy me overseas as soon as my cadetship is completed, if that is required; (c), based on my Scottish Highers alone, I definitely wouldn't make the cut, as I don't have a second language, which is a mandatory requirement for Competition Entrants who don't have a degree; (d) In light of point B, I have focused my degree on military law, for example, in my final honours year I will be studying International Criminal Law, International Law and Problems of World Order, writing a dissertation of the Laws of War, and participating in the European Human Rights Project.

I've also been working on extra-curriculars in order to impress the interview panel and show them exactly why I would be the right stuff for the PDF. I play Gaelic with Glasgow Uni (was Secretary last year) and have started target shooting (not really similar to military shooting I know, but better than nothing), and after less than 2 months I'm shooting an average of 82.2.

Considering you don't know this fairly basic information, I can only conclude you haven't done much research, and ergo are not particularly interested in becoming a commissioned officer in the Defence Forces

The reason I came onto this forum was to do research, and a year in advance of when I will hopefully be applying. The information I sought wasn't exactly basic, my main concern was with regards to the translation of qualifications, and in depth material regarding the entrance examinations. In the Cadetship Competition Booklet for 2009, it does not go into detail beyond the 1.5 miles in 11min 40secs, and 20 push-ups and sit-ups in a minute, all of which are a non-issue for me. I can do double the required sit-ups/ press ups in the alloted time, and the run will not be a problem either. The issues of fitness I referred with regards to improving related to flexibility and eye-sight, nothing else. The standards of flexibility were not detailed in the booklet, so I came here as my first port of call.

Yeah, I get that bit, but my sole point is that there may not be a competition next year, and if I were in his position I wouldn't be waiting around a year for a competition that may not happen if a cadetship is what I really wanted. And let's be honest, this year of all years they're not going to have a problem picking the guys who really want it badly given the jobs landscape out there.

See above, I wouldn't get in without a degree.

If he goes into the interview with the flippant attitude that is suggested in the tone of his post, I suspect that a board of Army officers will see through it.

I was completely unaware of any flippant attitude on my part (and still am for that matter), but if I have inadvertadly offended anyone then I appologise.

a) there may be no competition next year so waiting would not be an option for me if I were in his shoes,

b) results could be clarified with an email, it wouldn't take a year.

c) fitness is an integral part of a cadetship, if you need a year to get it right, you're not going to be cadet material in the first place.

a) Unfortunately, you are correct, but as I have said above, without a second language at higher level, I would be denied entry without a degree. However, the maximum age for Cadetship applicants with Degrees is stated as 28 in this year's booklet, meaning that if there is no competition next year, I will not be left high and dry.

b) I would imagine the PDF are fairly busy, especially as they are in the middle of a competition, so rather than bother them at the moment I thought it would be easier to test the water here

c) See above, my fitness regarding the run and muscular strength/ endurance is not an issue.

Unpossible

tribulus wrote: »

6/18 just means you need to able to read the 5th line down on the chart they get you to look at. (i.e 6/6 is the 1st line, 6/9 the second etc.)

So if I can read the fifth line in the opticians without glasses its 6/18. With my glasses I'm easily 6/6 but I'm definitly not 6/18 without them this is the main reason I never applied before I was always worried my eyesight wasn't up for it.

pmg58

MickJB, this link should help you with the fitness test: http://www.military.ie/careers/fitness.htm
To be honest it doesn't seem particularly hard, just pay attention to the situps, the technique can be different to what many people are used to.

The hearing test can be quite difficult, but just follow the advice given and you should be fine if your hearing is good enough.

You seem happy enough about the eyesight question.

Flexibility testing...I don't really know what that involves, I'd imagine that if you regularly play sports then you'll more than likely be okay.

My knowledge of what the medical involves is fairly limited. Besides the hearing and eyesight (already covered), there'll also be a colour vision test (same as this really: http://www.toledo-bend.com/colorblind/Ishihara.asp). Blood pressure, height, weight, basically what you'd expect. Other elements, maybe urine sample, blood test, physical examination? I don't know, but I'd say so.

And best of luck with final year, sounds like you really are preparing well for the cadets so good luck!

concussion

Flexibility is tested with a sit and reach board - basically you sit down with your legs straight and your feet against a wooden box. You then sit forward and reach as far as you can with your knees locked out. There is a scale on the top and they record how far you can stretch. Unfortunately I don't know what the requirements are, I reckon being able to touch your toes would be a start though!

A urine sample will be taken to check glucose levels, pmg58 has the rest covered.

Be aware that the entry fitness test is a bare minimum to enter, you should really be looking at a grade 1 or 2 in the annual fitness test as a guide (not directed at you op, just a generality for those reading this)

Edit - I see there's an extra 10 seconds for the run, interesting.

pmg58 wrote: »

To be honest it doesn't seem particularly hard, just pay attention to the situps, the technique can be different to what many people are used to.

Bang on there, I've seen so many people fail utterly because the technique was different to the one they practiced.

tribulus

Unpossible wrote: »

So if I can read the fifth line in the opticians without glasses its 6/18. With my glasses I'm easily 6/6 but I'm definitly not 6/18 without them this is the main reason I never applied before I was always worried my eyesight wasn't up for it.

I'm not an optician or doctor or anything, I'm just going off what they did last year.

If you read the requirements again you'll see 6/6 is okay for corrected vision.

The medicals are understandably a worry for a lot of people but there's not a lot you can do about it so instead just focus on getting to the medical phase i.e. the last phase in the first place!

blondie83

pmg58 wrote: »

MickJB, this link should help you with the fitness test: http://www.military.ie/careers/fitness.htm
To be honest it doesn't seem particularly hard, just pay attention to the situps, the technique can be different to what many people are used to.

Thanks for that pmg, handy to know the correct technique...does anyone else think the sit-up guy looks like he's in a lot of pain!

pmg58 wrote: »

The hearing test can be quite difficult, but just follow the advice given and you should be fine if your hearing is good enough

Ah no don't say that, I'm practically going around with earmuffs on my ears as it is, just in case! :eek:

MickJB1989

This is pretty strange, for some reason I can't view the informational videos on the website, I end up getting lines and lines of code, and then my PC freezes up. Is there a specific name for the sit-ups they do that I could have a look on google for?

blondie83

Hi Mick, haven't seen them anywhere else, but it looks pretty stright forward. Begin by lying down with legs drawn up in standard sit-up position, and with your two arms stretched out in front of you (palm of your hands resting on your thighs). As you come up hands should slide up, until your palm is on (maybe just beyond) your kneecap, and your fingers on the start of your shins. Then back down and repeat * 19!

Hard Larry

blondie83 wrote: »

Hi Mick, haven't seen them anywhere else, but it looks pretty stright forward. Begin by lying down with legs drawn up in standard sit-up position, and with your two arms stretched out in front of you (palm of your hands resting on your thighs). As you come up hands should slide up, until your palm is on (maybe just beyond) your kneecap, and your fingers on the start of your shins. Then back down and repeat * 19!

^yep thats pretty much it

If your feet lift off the ground its a fail.
If your hands leave your thighs its a fail
No one will be holding your ankles as in previous years.

Those of you with little arms will have to work twice as hard

concussion

Try
http://www.1bderdf.com/malepressup.wmv
and
http://www.1bderdf.com/situps.wmv
and if all else fails look at
http://www.1bderdf.com/ftchart.pdf

For the sit-ups you can hold your heels against the edge of the mat and backside approximately 12" away from heels.
Females and those over 40 can elect to do the modified push-up which is done with the knees on the ground and one straight line to the shoulders.

MickJB1989

Thanks for the info folks, good to know the exact format, and what consitutes a fail. Those informational videos were very useful. I'll need to change my sit-up technique, as I do the reps with my hands behind my head. Press-ups seem dead on though

Delta Kilo

RE the fitness test, how is the running part carried out? Is it on a treadmill or running around a track? So far I've only done it on a treadmill as there are a lot of hills around where I live. Running at 8mph brings you in at ~11.25. But I don't know if I would be able to judge how fast I am running on a real surface.

Is it done individually or in a group?

pmg58

I'm fairly sure its done outside, whether on a track, grass or a road, I don't know. A better bet for you would be to work out a route of a known distance and time yourself running it, you'll soon get used to the pace you need then .

Delta Kilo

Ya, I think it is time to move away from the treadmill as handy as it is. Get out on the road and see is there much of a difference!

pmg58

Yeah exactly, the problem with the treadmill that I find as well is that its just too easy to stop whenever you want, I find it much easier to push myself when I'm outside running.

MickJB1989

@ Delta Kilo: Personally I found treadmill too easy compared to what I'm doing now (athletics track). The treadmill (at my gym in any case) seems to help provide momentum, thus increasing speed slightly. 6 times round a standard 400m track covers the required distance, so it's has handy as a treadmill for measuring, but the difference on the ankles was quite something in my opinion, the first few times my time was reduced fairly substantially on the track compared to treadmill. I'd imagine concrete would be worse again, I plan on moving onto it shortly.

As for if the run is done in a group, I'm not sure on that one, but my gut tells me it would be, as they would only need one or two supervisors to get a good number of candidates done, rather than the individual supervision I imagine would be needed for the muscular endurance tests.

Delta Kilo

MickJB1989 wrote: »

6 times round a standard 400m track covers the required distance, so it's has handy as a treadmill for measuring,

That's handy. Pity there are none near where I live! Its handy because you know that you need to be doing a lap of the track in ~1min 50sec to come in on time. This is where I see a problem with the test. It's going to be hard pace yourself if it is just a straight run from point A to B or just 1 lap of something.

Hard Larry

The Assessment run will be done in a group. I don't know how big.

It'll either be in the DFTC (Curragh Camp) or Army Grounds in the Phoenix Park, Dublin depending on where you go for your interview.

The fitness test will more than likely be on the same day as your interview and the sit-ups & push ups will be done in the gym in DFTC or McKee Bks, Dublin

pmg58

Got the email with the test familiarisation booklet in it this morning, only applied on Wednesday too.

Delta Kilo

I received it too. 9am on the 31st August. Job simulation exercise looks kind of cool!

pmg58

Same as, I wonder if they'll just have one date or several?

Yeah some of the potential answers are hilarious!

MickJB1989

PMG, didn't realise you were applying this year as well, figured you were already in! Good luck to you both!

pmg58

Ha no, i've just done a lot of research to prepare for it, plus i've learned a few things from being in the RDF. Cheers!

neilled

I thought we'd be doing some group exercises, or do they doing those this year?

pmg58

Yeah thats part of phase 2, along with the fitness test, the personality questionnaire and the "realistic job preview".

neilled

Cool, I'm off to get some practise at those tests!