'Welfare scrounge' family fumes over benefits story

herya · 10-08-2009 08:08PM

celticbhoy2009 wrote: »

I had the means to pay for my children ..and i will do again..it is my right to have a family and i do not regret having 6 kids .i worked and supported 5 and as soon as i get employment i will again support them

Then go out and look for employment. You're actually in much better situation than any average jobseeker because people might want to give you a chance to help your kids.

What's your job seeking activity just now?

ei.sdraob · 10-08-2009 08:10PM

TheBeach wrote: »

Mr. Harte. Just to let you know, I'm reading this and feel sorry for the things that people have said about you and your family in this thread. I think it's terrible that a newspaper have been allowed to expose your personal details to the nation like this and my heart goes out to your children,

they went to the newspapers with the story!

as they wanted a free 8 bedroom house

do you feel sorry now? :rolleyes:

You're starting to p1ss me off.

only speaking the truth here "mate"

it does happen you know the system is full of abuses

herya wrote: »

Then go out and look for employment. You're actually in much better situation than any average jobseeker because people might want to give you a chance to help your kids.

What's your job seeking activity just now?

he would need to get a job that pays more than 45000 before taxes in order to be better of than sitting at home on welfare

Armin_Tamzarian · 10-08-2009 08:12PM

celticbhoy2009 wrote: »

As i stated before
"dont believe everything you read"
The media took most of my quotes and twisted them
I am taking the proper steps to deal with that
I cannot comment further on that issue at this time
But i will say..that statement is not accurate

The problem is Ger that you keep failing to answer one basic question.
How do you explain being unemployed for 5 years?
Fair enough, you may of had to give up work to temporarily look after your missus but 5 years?
You claim to have been looking for work for the last couple of months but what about the 4 and a half years previous to that?

Do you not agree that it is completely wrong for someone in your position to be taking home more every week than someone who is actually out working?
No half decent person would wish to see a family without a roof over their heads but the "extras" are a bit hard to swallow.
IMO someone living off state benefits should be getting enough to survive, but no more.
It would be ridiculous to suggest that you and your family are living in luxury but you could afford a €400 TV (that's a week's wages for many), you could afford to buy a laptop (that's another week's wages), and you can afford a car.
The car may be fit for the scrap yard but what about all the costs of tax, insurance and petrol, not to mind repairs?

You persist in failing to grasp that there are numerous people out there who work 5 days a week who can barely afford their rent and bills, let alone afford to run a car.
TBH it's vulgar to think that you can shell out the equivalent of a week's wages on TVs and laptops and run a car whilst some poor devil who's out breaking his back all week can't afford the same.

herya · 10-08-2009 08:12PM

ei.sdraob wrote: »

as they wanted a free 8 bedroom house

Yes Mr Harte and what about the 8 bedroom house?

Kradock · 10-08-2009 08:13PM

stepbar wrote: »

You didn't. You already mentioned that when you were working you did 3 jobs to keep the show on the road. Kids grow up, cost more, schooling costs money. Kids at a small age do not cost a fraction as much as they cost when they go to school / college etc. Your view is a very short time view. So I disagree entirely. It's certainly your right to have a family, no one is denying you that; however it's not your right to burden the taxpayer with the cost of more kids than you have need for.

Maybe you need to re phrase that.
Anyway with your thinking no one should have a family in case their circumstances change financially.

celticbhoy2009 · 10-08-2009 08:14PM

irishvamp90 wrote: »

Well if you want everyone here to change their view why dont you put up your facts and figures and we can work them out

ok here are my figures
Work figures
Job 1. take home was €140 per week(part time)
Job 2. take home was €220 per week(part time)
Job 3. take home was €80 per week(part time)
FIS was €44 per week
Child Benifit was roughly(not 100% sure of figures €850 per month

Ok Figures now

I recieve €482 per week for 8 of us
child benifit €1,144 per month
I do not recieve rent suplement i pay my rent myself from that which is €1000 per month
As i stated these are benifits which im entitled i am not doing anything ileagal and i have no intentions of remaining on welfare..I am not nor have i ever been afraid of hard work..i never saw my family i started 1 job at 8am until 1pm another job from 1.30pm to 6.30 pm and another from 8pm until 2am...i did not moan or complain i was happy to be out there earning an honest buck..and i will do so again..im doing all i can to get back out there ..im not proud to be on welfare but in certain circumstances people dont have any other choice

stepbar · 10-08-2009 08:14PM

ei.sdraob wrote: »

only speaking the truth here "mate" it does happen you know the system is full of abuses

And you don't have the knowledge or right to determine if someone who is depressed / or not is abusing the system or not.

celticbhoy2009 · 10-08-2009 08:15PM

herya wrote: »

Yes Mr Harte and what about the 8 bedroom house?

Again taking out of context i have never said i want a "free" house

rubadub · 10-08-2009 08:17PM

ei.sdraob wrote: »

A working married man with 6 kids (same ~1000 for 6 in allowance) would have to work for €45K before tax

in order to come out with same amount of money as this guy gets (~2800x12) for not working

Well it doesn't surprise me that somebody on €45k would find it hard to raise 5 or 6 kids, or 2 for that matter,

irishvamp90 wrote: »

that amount of kids is crazy,my sister has 3 and they find it a struggle,it would be a disaster if she had another

Yes, I am older than the guy and know lots of couples around that age, none with more than 2 kids, recently one couple had their second and people were all wondering how they could afford it, some calling them mad for doing it -both working decent jobs.

Kradock wrote: »

I come from a family of 9 , all raised on a single employed wage. we didn't sell or eat any of my siblings.

How many families of 9 do you see these days? every wonder why? I honestly can not think of a single family with parents I know under 40 who have more than 2 kids. Go a generation back and people had more, they could afford them, go further back and people had more again. And I have heard my parents and grandparents also commenting that they have no idea how people could afford larger families these days.

I wonder what single wage today would support a family of 9 to the same standard you were brought up in, any idea?

celticbhoy2009 wrote: »

i do not decide what benifits i get..thats down to our government is it not.

The government offers benefits, you are not legally obliged to take them, many do not.

celticbhoy2009 wrote: »

.im not totaly irrisponsible
when myself and my wife chose to raise a family i was working
i was earning enough to support us all .i did not have any way of knowing things would get as bad as they have .if i had been able to see into the future

You must have been on some huge salary if you were thought you could comfortably afford to raise 5 or 6 kids, if you are struggling with the equivalent of €45 now.

I find this truly puzzling, I would assume you are very intelligent to have had such a high paying job, so would have thought you would know how the world works, recessions coming & going etc, market ups & downs, making contingency plans, putting away money for if/when things go belly up.

ei.sdraob · 10-08-2009 08:19PM

a minimum wage job

pays €8.65 * 36 hours = €311.40 a week

thats

€16,192.80 a year

thats

€15,868.94 after taxes

thats a fair bit less than what hes making for sitting at home with wife and 6 kids

now what incentive is there to work at a potentially boring job for a full week?

the system is fooked i tell you

:mad:

stepbar · 10-08-2009 08:19PM

Kradock wrote: »

[/B]

Maybe you need to re phrase that.
Anyway with your thinking no one should have a family in case their circumstances change financially.

No, someone on 30k should have no more than 2 kids. Otherwise how the hell do they hope to be able to afford to send them to college etc? It's fact. People do not think about this enough, it's a case of pop the sprog and worry about it later. A bit like the mortgages that were handed out based on renting a few rooms :rolleyes:

celticbhoy2009 · 10-08-2009 08:24PM

Armin_Tamzarian wrote: »

The problem is Ger that you keep failing to answer one basic question.
How do you explain being unemployed for 5 years?
Fair enough, you may of had to give up work to temporarily look after your missus but 5 years?
You claim to have been looking for work for the last couple of months but what about the 4 and a half years previous to that?

Do you not agree that it is completely wrong for someone in your position to be taking home more every week than someone who is actually out working?
No half decent person would wish to see a family without a roof over their heads but the "extras" are a bit hard to swallow.
IMO someone living off state benefits should be getting enough to survive, but no more.
It would be ridiculous to suggest that you and your family are living in luxury but you could afford a €400 TV (that's a week's wages for many), you could afford to buy a laptop (that's another week's wages), and you can afford a car.
The car may be fit for the scrap yard but what about all the costs of tax, insurance and petrol, not to mind repairs?

You persist in failing to grasp that there are numerous people out there who work 5 days a week who can barely afford their rent and bills, let alone afford to run a car.
TBH it's vulgar to think that you can shell out the equivalent of a week's wages on TVs and laptops and run a car whilst some poor devil who's out breaking his back all week can't afford the same.

I have done my best to explain my circumstances..i was out of work for 5 years yes not by choice .i mean do you expect me to drag every bit of personal information about my family through the mud..All i will say is my wife was in no condition to look after our kids and as their father it was my place to do so..we have been through hell ..we dont enjoy any of this we dont like the hand we have been dealt..but over 5 years yes it was a tough time for us both..as i have told you she was extremely ill with depression on top of this she went through 2 operations in that time and other personal issues i will not go into as i need to respect her wishes and allow the woman some dignity and privacey as almost all of it has been taking from her..as for the car i bought it years ago for 600 quid i pay my insurance and tax monthly it works out at €42 per month for my insurance..the tv was not recent it was a few years back and as i have said i was not always unemployed..the laptop was not bought new it was bought off the buy and sell for very small money as a birthday gift to her..are you trying to tell me that because im unemployed i dont or should not have to right to try and buy my family birthday gifts?? again you are not seeing my point..you have already made your minds up about me so i see no reason to continue this debate with you..but what i will do is this..i will post the facts..i will post how all this started and what has happ sine..then you can decide

herya · 10-08-2009 08:25PM

celticbhoy2009 wrote: »

Again taking out of context i have never said i want a "free" house

Nothing to do with the issue of the house being free or not.

Even if it's rented why to pay for an 8 bed (rare to find, extremely expensive)? Surely this is excessive spending of taxpayer's money? And you complain about having to uproot your family. Surely you need to move far to find another 8 bed. If you were satisfied with a 4 bed there is always one around the corner.

celticbhoy2009 · 10-08-2009 08:27PM

TheBeach wrote: »

Mr. Harte. Just to let you know, I'm reading this and feel sorry for the things that people have said about you and your family in this thread. I think it's terrible that a newspaper have been allowed to expose your personal details to the nation like this and my heart goes out to your children,

thank you sincerelly

celticbhoy2009 · 10-08-2009 08:30PM

herya wrote: »

Nothing to do with the issue of the house being free or not.

Even if it's rented why to pay for an 8 bed (rare to find, extremely expensive)? Surely this is excessive spending of taxpayer's money? And you complain about having to uproot your family. Surely you need to move far to find another 8 bed. If you were satisfied with a 4 bed there is always one around the corner.

the size of the house is not an issue for me..its extremely difficult to find any home to rent when you have a large family..i went to ennis 2 weeks ago to view a house there was another lady also there..she had 2 kids i have 6..guess who got the house..rents the same so any landlord would rather rent to a small family which is understandable but thats the problem im having..i dont care where i have to live or what kind of house as long as my kids have a roof over their heads

Kradock · 10-08-2009 08:30PM

ei.sdraob wrote: »

a minimum wage job

pays €8.65 * 36 hours = €311.40 a week

thats

€16,192.80 a year

thats

€15,868.94 after taxes

thats a fair bit less than what hes making for sitting at home with wife and 6 kids

now what incentive is there to work at a potentially boring job for a full week?

the system is fooked i tell you

:mad:

We all know the system is fooked , and this is where the problem lies , this man has only claimed what he is rightfully due as per the benefits made available by the government. People have taken a newspaper article from the Sindo and taken in as word for word fact. Gerard has come on here to give his side of things and gets slated for it. There are 2 sides to the story. I know of single mothers who get 3 bed houses from the council because the long term view is that they are each entitled to their own room. Having 6 kids would dictate a requirement for at least a 7 bedroom house for this family to be housed at this standard.

Lardy Carl · 10-08-2009 08:33PM

Hi celticbhoy2009,
from a personal point of view I don't have/want any kids right now purely because I don't want to be lumbered with the financial cost of raising them. Likewise I wouldn't expect for a second the state to pay for it either.

So coming from my pov it honestly confuses me why individuals such as yourself feel the need to have 6 children? Were you well off in 2004 when you had 5 out and had a job? My parents had to work everyday of their lives just to raise 3 kids so you must have been doing well to have 6? Out of interest where would you have drawn the line in an ideal world? 8? 10? 15?

Further, why should I (a person with no dependents due to my own careful choices) have to go out every day to pay for your family? Would you do the same for me happily if things were reversed? Anyone can lose their job but I think we'd be about 10 times more symathetic to your scrounger lifestyle Ger if you didn't feel the need drop 6 children into into the mix and to multiply your drain on my pockets by 8.

Splendour · 10-08-2009 08:34PM

celticbhoy2009 wrote: »

I do not recieve rent suplement i pay my rent myself from that which is €1000 per month

I know you feel most people here are having a go at you but I think most of us are just trying to understand the decisions you've made with regards to your situation.
Can I ask why you are paying 1,000 euro a month on rent? I thought the council had offered you a house? Or have I got this wrong?

celticbhoy2009 · 10-08-2009 08:37PM

Splendour wrote: »

I know you feel most people here are having a go at you but I think most of us are just trying to understand the decisions you've made with regards to your situation.
Can I ask why you are paying 1,000 euro a month on rent? I thought the council had offered you a house? Or have I got this wrong?

no the council have told us they have no suitable house for us ..we have been trying for 7 years to be housed..so i have no other choice than to pay it myself

Splendour · 10-08-2009 08:40PM

Kradock wrote: »

We all know the system is fooked , and this is where the problem lies , this man has only claimed what he is rightfully due as per the benefits made available by the government. People have taken a newspaper article from the Sindo and taken in as word for word fact. Gerard has come on here to give his side of things and gets slated for it. There are 2 sides to the story. I know of single mothers who get 3 bed houses from the council because the long term view is that they are each entitled to their own room. Having 6 kids would dictate a requirement for at least a 7 bedroom house for this family to be housed at this standard.

Bull****!! I bought a house 9 years ago which is only 500 odd sq. ft. for me and my three kids. When four of us sit down to eat in the kitchen ya' can't move-we're like sardines in a tin!

ei.sdraob · 10-08-2009 08:42PM

celticbhoy2009 wrote: »

ok here are my figures
Work figures
Job 1. take home was €140 per week(part time)
Job 2. take home was €220 per week(part time)
Job 3. take home was €80 per week(part time)
FIS was €44 per week
Child Benifit was roughly(not 100% sure of figures €850 per month

Ok Figures now

I recieve €482 per week for 8 of us
child benifit €1,144 per month
I do not recieve rent suplement i pay my rent myself from that which is €1000 per month
As i stated these are benifits which im entitled i am not doing anything ileagal and i have no intentions of remaining on welfare..I am not nor have i ever been afraid of hard work..i never saw my family i started 1 job at 8am until 1pm another job from 1.30pm to 6.30 pm and another from 8pm until 2am...i did not moan or complain i was happy to be out there earning an honest buck..and i will do so again..im doing all i can to get back out there ..im not proud to be on welfare but in certain circumstances people dont have any other choice

ok now that we have figures from you (thanks!) we can do some maths and revise my numbers

lets ignore the kids allowance and you claim no rental allowance and since a man with 6 kids working full time would get the same allowance

dole @ €482 * 52 = €25,064
+ free medical care

you would need to work at a full time job that pays

€34,000 before taxes thats €27724.16 after taxes

minus

VHI Family Plan for 2 adults + 6 kids = €2,684 a year

= €25,040.16

thats more or less what you get on dole now @ €25,064

So where would you find a job that pays more than €34K ?

And would you work full time at such a job while knowing you could be getting the same amount by sitting at home?

btw your 3 jobs were earning you €484 * 52 = €25168 before taxes back in 2004

im not an accountant but it was a godo move to go one welfare "mate"

/

Splendour · 10-08-2009 08:42PM

celticbhoy2009 wrote: »

no the council have told us they have no suitable house for us ..we have been trying for 7 years to be housed..so i have no other choice than to pay it myself

Have you been offered a house at all though-regardless of size?

Sofiztikated · 10-08-2009 08:42PM

I was going to reply to Ger, but everything that I type would get me a ban.

I dislike you. No matter how you try and justify it, I don't like you.

celticbhoy2009 · 10-08-2009 08:42PM

Lardy Carl wrote: »

Hi celticbhoy2009,
from a personal point of view I don't have/want any kids right now purely because I don't want to be lumbered with the financial cost of raising them. Likewise I wouldn't expect for a second the state to pay for it either.

So coming from my pov it honestly confuses me why individuals such as yourself feel the need to have 6 children? Were you well off in 2004 when you had 5 out and had a job? My parents had to work everyday of their lives just to raise 3 kids so you must have been doing well to have 6? Out of interest where would you have drawn the line in an ideal world? 8? 10? 15?

Further, why should I (a person with no dependents due to my own careful choices) have to go out every day to pay for your family? Would you do the same for me happily if things were reversed? Anyone can lose their job but I think we'd be about 10 times more symathetic to your scrounger lifestyle Ger if you didn't feel the need drop 6 children into into the mix and to multiply your drain on my pockets by 8.

I really feel its not a crime to want children..we all differ in how we feel about that..i was managing to provide for the kids until i had to stop working..and no we did not plan on having more children..we were stopping at 5..my son liam is 4 years of age ..after my daughter was born my wife took the proper steps to insure we didnt have anymore children..she had the implanon .its ment to protect for 3 years ..she was on this contracptive for 13 months when she fell pregnant with our last son..are you going to blame me for that also??

celticbhoy2009 · 10-08-2009 08:43PM

Sofiztikated wrote: »

I was going to reply to Ger, but everything that I type would get me a ban.

I dislike you. No matter how you try and justify it, I don't like you.

i respect your opinion..your entitled to it

herya · 10-08-2009 08:44PM

celticbhoy2009 wrote: »

no the council have told us they have no suitable house for us ..we have been trying for 7 years to be housed..so i have no other choice than to pay it myself

The article says:

They once had a council house of their own. But it was in Moyross, a troubled and impoverished Limerick suburb where they did not want to raise their children.
They have lived in a succession of rented homes ever since -- paid for by the council.

Are they lying?

Also, you have admitted yourself that your wages before you quit your jobs were 22880 per year. How is that responsible to have 5 or 6 kids on such a salary? What kind of future you had in mind for them?

But you are now getting twice as much from the taxpayer and you're going to the press as you feel you should get more.

celticbhoy2009 · 10-08-2009 08:44PM

Splendour wrote: »

Have you been offered a house at all though-regardless of size?

No not 1 offer

celticbhoy2009 · 10-08-2009 08:51PM

herya wrote: »

The article says:

Are they lying?

Also, you have admitted yourself that your wages before you quit your jobs were 22880 per year. How is that responsible to have 5 or 6 kids on such a salary?

But you are now getting twice as much from the taxpayer and you're going to the press as you feel you should get more.

are you even listening to what i have said..i have never said i want more..i went to the press as a last resort because i was sick to death of seeing my wife break down in tears..we at this moment in time have our belongings packed and in our car as we know that by the end of this week if even that long we are on the streets..i went to the press to beg the council to house us..i dont know what to do anymore i really dont..i dont know how to fix this mess..you have no idea what we are going thru ..my 4 year old has lived in 6 different houses hard to believe..my son ger is 12 and doesnt have a single friend as were never in any area long enuff for the kids to make friends..im heartbroken as i feel ive let my whole family down..my kids cry wen they have to move school which tears a fathers heart out to see..there has never been stability in their lives and do you think im proud of that..im not i feel a total failure ..i wud do anything i can..il scrub floors whatever it takes..all i want is to be a proper dad and husband i dont care where i have to live i dont care what work i have to do

Splendour · 10-08-2009 08:51PM

celticbhoy2009 wrote: »

No not 1 offer

But what about herya's post that you had a council house?

Kradock · 10-08-2009 08:52PM

Splendour wrote: »

Bull****!! I bought a house 9 years ago which is only 500 odd sq. ft. for me and my three kids. When four of us sit down to eat in the kitchen ya' can't move-we're like sardines in a tin!

I don't think it is bull**** , there are houses provided in the area I live to single mothers with 2 children , when i spoke to a county councillor about this he informed me that because the children as they grow will need their own room then that is why they are provided 3 bedroom houses. Using that logic , and its not mine ,a family with 6 kids would need at least a 7 bedroom house.

You bought a house to suit your financial status , I am guessing, and not one for your practical needs.

'Welfare scrounge' family fumes over benefits story

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