Conscription would you do it?

Cookie_Monster · 06-08-2009 11:59AM

El Siglo wrote: »

Yeh but they're the Swiss, nobody fcuks with the Swiss, they'll cut you to shreads!

Blocked in work but aren't the "Swiss guard" not Vatican soldiers and in fact not Swiss?

El Siglo · 06-08-2009 12:01PM

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Blocked in work but aren't the "Swiss guard" not Vatican soldiers and in fact not Swiss?

Oh no, they're Swiss Mercenaries working for the Pontiff, see here.

mobius42 · 06-08-2009 12:03PM

Irishcrx wrote: »

Obviously we don't have it here in ireland but what if we did, there are many conuntries around the world which by law require it's citizens to spend a certain ammount of time in service to the army in their teenage years or early twenties and this can be increased in both time and countries in wartime.

Personally I would never do it, I see it as a violation of my "Free will" and choice. I have no interest in fighting for a cause I don't believe in, a country I have no faith in or in the case of wartime murdering other poor souls who are forced to be there and all for some sort of goverment gain or media hyped properganda. It's a bloody disgrace that people around the world have to do this or face jail it's modern slavery...the world we live in really isn't free at all...just made to seem it.

I don't think you understand what conscription is.

fintonie · 06-08-2009 12:39PM

El Siglo wrote: »

Yeh but can you imagine how many criminals we could get rid of by using them on these 'special' missions, just like "Operation Human Shield".:D

no it doesn't

Irishcrx · 06-08-2009 01:20PM

mobius42 wrote: »

I don't think you understand what conscription is.

Oh do I not?...I think I do. Conscription is an involuntary service to an authority country. Meaning you are forced like the rest of the nation to carry out it's bidding weather that be in the front line, behind a desk or making coffee which was decided by social status in the old days. The alternitive for this is jail.

It doesn't matter if it doesn't affect us right now, sort out the youth, they get training etc. But at war they would be sent to fight without a doubt and given the age we live in, I can't see another 50 years without England or the US going to war and using this system as a means of gaining soldiers.

Holsten · 06-08-2009 01:33PM

No way, I'd leave the country before I'd join any army.

Agent J · 06-08-2009 01:44PM

If the situation was desperate enough that the Government had to bring it in i think a lot of people who would be aganist it in principle would change their minds pretty quickly.

Or have their minds changed by the threat of imprisonment or possibly worse.
There is a clause in the constitution that basically says if Ireland is invaded the Cabinet can do what it likes until the Dail is able to meet.

I wouldn't object myself it it came in. Desperate times and all.

Elessar · 06-08-2009 01:44PM

IMO the irish defence forces are some of the biggest wastes of money in this country. No offence to anyone in the service, they do a great job, but Ireland does not need an expensive armed force when the money going into it could be put to good use elsewhere. There should be of course provisions for small scale services like naval patrols against smuggling etc but as a whole an Irish army like we have (and air corps - wtf is the point of that?) is simply not needed.

And no I would not do conscription. I'd fake some medical condition. To hell with some powertrip maniac telling me what to fcuking do.

/ducks.

Rebelheart · 06-08-2009 01:45PM

Irishcrx wrote: »

Obviously we don't have it here in ireland but what if we did, there are many conuntries around the world which by law require it's citizens to spend a certain ammount of time in service to the army in their teenage years or early twenties and this can be increased in both time and countries in wartime.

Personally I would never do it, I see it as a violation of my "Free will" and choice. I have no interest in fighting for a cause I don't believe in, a country I have no faith in or in the case of wartime murdering other poor souls who are forced to be there and all for some sort of goverment gain or media hyped properganda. It's a bloody disgrace that people around the world have to do this or face jail it's modern slavery...the world we live in really isn't free at all...just made to seem it.

Yes, I would just love to fight under instruction from the same people who are going to make our generation and future generations pay financially for their stupidity (although all of them are financially secure for life). To be conscripted by those people is absurd.

Let idiots die for the interests of the ruling elite, just like all those naive individuals in 1914-1918.

son.of.jimi · 06-08-2009 01:47PM

I think it would be a good idea tbh, I'd have gladly done it if made to. . .

I mean it would certainly sort out a lot of 'young offenders' and would help with the 'lazy' mentality of most of the young people today.

For instance the perfectly able bodied people who leave school then make no effort to contribute to society and think they can coast through life on the dole. . . I mean if they were to leave school, do two years service, they wouldn't just leave and join the dole afterwards would they?

They'd be more likely to either continue in service or go to college or even WORK after they had left. . . .

I think that conscription could be a great kick in the a** for the future Ireland

ejmaztec · 06-08-2009 01:49PM

Elessar wrote: »

IMO the irish defence forces are some of the biggest wastes of money in this country. No offence to anyone in the service, they do a great job, but Ireland does not need an expensive armed force when the money going into it could be put to good use elsewhere. There should be of course provisions for small scale services like naval patrols against smuggling etc but as a whole an Irish army like we have (and air corps - wtf is the point of that?) is simply not needed.

And no I would not do conscription. I'd fake some medical condition. To hell with some powertrip maniac telling me what to fcuking do.

/duckschicken.

Nodin · 06-08-2009 01:50PM

Irishcrx wrote: »

Obviously we don't have it here in ireland but what if we did, there are many conuntries around the world which by law require it's citizens to spend a certain ammount of time in service to the army in their teenage years or early twenties and this can be increased in both time and countries in wartime.

Personally I would never do it, I see it as a violation of my "Free will" and choice. I have no interest in fighting for a cause I don't believe in, a country I have no faith in or in the case of wartime murdering other poor souls who are forced to be there and all for some sort of goverment gain or media hyped properganda. It's a bloody disgrace that people around the world have to do this or face jail it's modern slavery...the world we live in really isn't free at all...just made to seem it.

I'm too old now so can't really comment personally.

In general though,I'd say the idea of a widespread knowledge of military tactics and the like amongst the general populace would scare the shite out of the body politic....

Manic Moran · 06-08-2009 02:00PM

It very much has become a cultural thing. The Swiss are very proud of their citizen/soldier heritage, and it's considered something of an honour to be conscripted. Their army has downsized a little, they no longer conscript everyone and can thus pick and choose a bit. Their annual national children's shooting competition has thousands of 12-16 year-olds shooting the Swiss Army's service rifle (Look up Knabenschiessen), and it is quite normal to see someone strolling go down the shops with an assault rifle slung over their shoulder: They're just stopping off on the way to the range.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/53/Caroline-Migros-p1000507.jpg/450px-Caroline-Migros-p1000507.jpg.

The Israelis also culturally consider military service to be a duty, and those who shirk it without good reason tend to be somewhat ostracised.

A fair compromise is done by many European countries, where you do a couple of years of some form of government service, not necessarily in the military. Greece used to give you the choice of 18 months 'at sea' duty in the Navy, 2 years shore service, or 5 years in the police (if not banned by criminal record). It worked out, my uncle spent his time in the Hellenic Air Force repairing helicopters, he's now head of Olympic Airway's technical division.

NTM

prinz · 06-08-2009 02:05PM

Manic Moran wrote: »

A fair compromise is done by many European countries, where you do a couple of years of some form of government service, not necessarily in the military.
NTM

+1 People automatically jump on the military/guns/wars bandwagon. Friend of mine had to do his service in Germany and opted for Social Service as opposed to Military Service, as the choice is there. So he did a spell as an orderly in a hospital. Such an idea in Ireland would be great as it's badly needed tbh.

Nodin · 06-08-2009 02:09PM

Aye, the Germans had a choice between the Army and the ambulance service. The French only had a choice between serving at home or abroad, if I recall, but its scrapped conscription now.....apparently running around in the jungle only sounds glamorous till you get there....

Fugly · 06-08-2009 02:11PM

If it's conscription, not alot of options to be honest.

I think a mandatory national service would be great, focusing on the social side. I mean most organisations are crying out for volunteers and it would teach people social responsibility.

Military option would be available too, however some people would not do well in the army. It doesn't "straighten" everybody out. And for the scumbags, weapons training is not something I think they need extra lessons in.

I can't wait until I'm ruling the world.:rolleyes:

Local-womanizer · 06-08-2009 02:16PM

prinz wrote: »

+1 People automatically jump on the military/guns/wars bandwagon. Friend of mine had to do his service in Germany and opted for Social Service as opposed to Military Service, as the choice is there. So he did a spell as an orderly in a hospital. Such an idea in Ireland would be great as it's badly needed tbh.

In Germany,is it if you have a job after college,you wont be asked to join?

prinz · 06-08-2009 02:22PM

Local-womanizer wrote: »

In Germany,is it if you have a job after college,you wont be asked to join?

Not 100% sure on the ins and outs - I know there are various exceptions for different reasons, but AFAIK it's generally done about 19/20, before you go to college. A friend of his was in the Navy, and he had a great time doing it. It definitely helps instill a bit of social and community spirit.

Prof.Badass · 06-08-2009 02:27PM

I would rather serve time in prison than be forced into the army and I would rather die fighting conscription than die a conscript.

That being said, if Ireland was invaded I wouldn't have much of a problem joining the army provided no-one was ever forced to leave the island.

If war was looming I think we should all be given guns/weapons and trained in various aspects of geurilla warfare. We'd all organise into cells and then go back to our homes ready for the invasion. If we were to fight on their terms we wouldn't stand a chance.

The army would be the leaders of the resistance and be the masters of stealth operations. Short of some sort of genocide, i wouldn't see any occupying force as standing much of a chance. We'd be more trouble than we are worth

.

Also there's the whole sexism issue. Why should i be expected to sacrifice my life while strong, independant women get away scot free?

prinz · 06-08-2009 02:43PM

vinylmesh wrote: »

Also there's the whole sexism issue. Why should i be expected to sacrifice my life while strong, independant women get away scot free?

Girls do it too in most countries.

Local-womanizer · 06-08-2009 02:49PM

prinz wrote: »

Girls do it too in most countries.

Yup,look at Israel,some hotties in their armed forces!

gerky · 06-08-2009 02:53PM

This popped in to my head when I read this thread,

Homer: [nervously] Well, Bart, did you make sure to return all the
guns?
Bart: Sir! Yes, Sir! Luckily, I am now trained in six additional
forms of unarmed combat, sir!
Marge: Well, he seems to have gotten more confidence.
Homer: Uh, yeah, I've always said that the boy could use more
confidence.

sock puppet · 06-08-2009 03:19PM

Rebelheart wrote: »

Yes, I would just love to fight under instruction from the same people who are going to make our generation and future generations pay financially for their stupidity (although all of them are financially secure for life). To be conscripted by those people is absurd.

Let idiots die for the interests of the ruling elite, just like all those naive individuals in 1914-1918.

You'd be a fool to think that the ruling class were the only people with a stake in the First World War. Look at what happened to Germany after 1918.

Bill-e · 06-08-2009 03:22PM

My buddy did it in Denmark. They put him on a desk for half a year. How bad like.

I did the fca when I was 15 to 18 and it defiantly built a lot on my self discipline and thought me a fair bit about working in a team. Got to shoot loads of guns and blow up mountains.

I'm all for it. There's a lot of young people in this country that would seriously benefit from doing a stint in the army.
It may help to encourage a return... to traditional moral values. Most importantly, it could promote general social concern... and less materialism in these young people.

Rebelheart · 06-08-2009 03:23PM

sock puppet wrote: »

You'd be a fool to think that the ruling class were the only people with a stake in the First World War. Look at what happened to Germany after 1918.

What was WWI about aside from maintaining the balance of power in Europe, which had been favourable to the British since Waterloo and was being challenged by a resurgent Germany?

It was a war between imperial powers to protect and/or advance their power.

Altreab · 06-08-2009 03:23PM

Captain Morgan wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

mmmmmmmmm yeah give scumbags top class training in the use of guns and various other weapons ......what could possibly go wrong?

sock puppet · 06-08-2009 03:35PM

Rebelheart wrote: »

What was WWI about aside from maintaining the balance of power in Europe, which had been favourable to the British since Waterloo and was being challenged by a resurgent Germany?

It was a war between imperial powers to protect and/or advance their power.

That's not the point. The reasons for starting the war may have been stupid but once Britain and Germany did go to war men were fighting to protect their countries. As I said look at Germany post 1918. They lost a lot more than status and power. By fighting in the war British men saved their country from such a fate. The reasons for starting the war may not be compelling but the reasons for fighting in it certainly were.

Rebelheart · 06-08-2009 03:48PM

sock puppet wrote: »

That's not the point. The reasons for starting the war may have been stupid but once Britain and Germany did go to war men were fighting to protect their countries. As I said look at Germany post 1918. They lost a lot more than status and power. By fighting in the war British men saved their country from such a fate. The reasons for starting the war may not be compelling but the reasons for fighting in it certainly were.

I have yet to be persuaded of that view, even though it has been fashionable in a small and vociferous circle in recent years to try and justify it. It is very bad history to justify WW I based on events which happened after it was over. It sounds very Whigish or teleological at best.

Nodin · 06-08-2009 03:48PM

irish_bob wrote: »

young men crave discipline , the army provides the right kind of guidance for them , strict , authoratarian but agressive

.............

ShooterSF · 06-08-2009 03:58PM

Irishcrx wrote: »

Oh do I not?...I think I do. Conscription is an involuntary service to an authority country.

That's the point. You don't get to choose whether you do it or not so the poll is pretty flawed. You say you would refuse. Would you still refuse if threatened with treason followed by a lifetime in jail or even killed?

Conscription would you do it?

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