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Poulgorm · 04-08-2009 10:48AM

The only variation I would consider introducing is that the qualifiers should be confined to the provinces. I.E one unbeaten team would go straight through to the provincial final. A qualifier system (within the province) would determine who their opponents in the provincial final would be. The all Ireland would then be between the 4 provincial winners.

The provincial finals would mean something then

I think the principal of the qualifiers is good. Before this, a team could play the first round in May and, if beaten, would not have an inter county game again until the league in October. This is no good for the weaker counties.

Watch how Wicklow will do in the league, after their championship run. Bet they will win promotion.

spongeman · 04-08-2009 10:59AM

So how come 3 of the 4 provincial winners got through then ? The problem is Dublin need a new manager from outside the county, not a change in the system. They have home advantage and good players, they just need a different mindset.

Coming from Wicklow I should know about that. Its all in the mind.

Poulgorm · 04-08-2009 11:05AM

I think that this is the first year that 3 out of the 4 provincial winners got through to the semis. Pat Spillane had figures that only a quarter get through most years.

rossie1977 · 04-08-2009 11:19AM

plasmaguy wrote: »

1. You learn more from a defeat than a victory. Provincial winners don't get to learn anything along the way.

5. Losing teams have a greater desire and hunger than teams who have won provincial championships.

right, lets have a look at dublins results when they lost in leinster and went through the qualifiers

2004
Dublin beaten in leinster by westmeath, lose to munster champions kerry in the quarters 1-15 to 1-8, kerry the munster champions go on to win the all-ireland hammering mayo in the final

2003
Dublin beaten in leinster by laois, beaten by armagh in qualifiers by 15 points to 11

2001
Dublin lose to meath in leinster final, lose to munster champions kerry in quarter final

spongeman · 04-08-2009 11:24AM

Good points there.

For the population they have the Dubs should be doing better.

alrudd · 05-08-2009 12:39AM

Poulgorm wrote: »

I think that this is the first year that 3 out of the 4 provincial winners got through to the semis. Pat Spillane had figures that only a quarter get through most years.

Mayo aint through yet though.Its a fact that at least 1 of the provencial winners since the new system was brought in get knocked out in the quarter finals.

John The Bad · 05-08-2009 02:46AM

plasmaguy wrote: »

Five reasons provincial winners tend to do badly in the AI apart from Kerry and Tyrone.

1. You learn more from a defeat than a victory. Provincial winners don't get to learn anything along the way.

2. You learn who are the form players and who are consistent the more games you play

3. Competitive match practise gives you an edge and you hit the ground running

4. It takes you a few minutes to get back to the pace of championship football once you have a rest

5. Losing teams have a greater desire and hunger than teams who have won provincial championships.

This year proved once and for all that Dublin are better off losing Leinster next year, as it seems Kerry are losing Munster.

I don't really agree with these points. And I think you left out the one glaring problem with the current setup -- the provincial champions are the only teams who don't get a second chance if they lose a match.

grenache · 05-08-2009 03:22PM

I have 2 problems with football qualifiers.

Firstly, the time difference in how long the beaten provincial finalists have to wait to play in the qualifiers is a joke. Antrim had to face Kerry only 6 days after losing the Ulster final to Tyrone. That is most unfair as it did not give Antrim sufficient recovery time to be either mentally or physicaly prepared for Kerry. 6 days is too short a space between games. Limerick on the other hand had 4 weeks to wait for their qualifier and this too is equally ludicrious. The drawn Wexford-Roscommon game was largely to blame for this as Meath had to wait an extra week to find out who they would play in round 3. But making Limerick having to wait 4 weeks is practically as bad as making Antrim play after 6 days, it leaves them rusty and not up to match speed. Limerick looked totally off the pace last Saturday nite and i would propose that the 4 week lay-off played a significant role in this. Beaten provincial finalists should have a minimum 2 week, maximum 3 week gap between the final and their qualifier game.

Secondly, there should be no replays. All games should be decided on the day/night. They should go to extra time and even golden points if needs be. The scenario where a couple of drawn games holds up the championship for weeks on end must not be allowed to come about.

John The Bad · 06-08-2009 02:15PM

grenache wrote: »

I have 2 problems with football qualifiers.

Firstly, the time difference in how long the beaten provincial finalists have to wait to play in the qualifiers is a joke. Antrim had to face Kerry only 6 days after losing the Ulster final to Tyrone. That is most unfair as it did not give Antrim sufficient recovery time to be either mentally or physicaly prepared for Kerry. 6 days is too short a space between games. Limerick on the other hand had 4 weeks to wait for their qualifier and this too is equally ludicrious. The drawn Wexford-Roscommon game was largely to blame for this as Meath had to wait an extra week to find out who they would play in round 3. But making Limerick having to wait 4 weeks is practically as bad as making Antrim play after 6 days, it leaves them rusty and not up to match speed. Limerick looked totally off the pace last Saturday nite and i would propose that the 4 week lay-off played a significant role in this. Beaten provincial finalists should have a minimum 2 week, maximum 3 week gap between the final and their qualifier game.

Secondly, there should be no replays. All games should be decided on the day/night. They should go to extra time and even golden points if needs be. The scenario where a couple of drawn games holds up the championship for weeks on end must not be allowed to come about.

Some good points here but again you're leaving out the most glaringly obvious problem -- the provincial champions are the only teams who do not get a second chance.

K-9 · 06-08-2009 02:48PM

John The Bad wrote: »

Some good points here but again you're leaving out the most glaringly obvious problem -- the provincial champions are the only teams who do not get a second chance.

True, but how you fix that is the problem. Can't think of an easy fix for it.

JazzyJ · 06-08-2009 03:15PM

To be honest I think Mondays game was just one of those games where one of the teams doesn't bother to turn up and the other team plays exceptionally well. You just have to look at Cork/Donegal the day before. In both cases I don't think that there would be that much of a difference on an average day.

OT:

ColeTrain wrote: »

We got to ye with that stunt at the start, Dublin should have just gone to the Canal end and concentrated on the game ahead.

No you didn't. We raced into a 7 point lead at the start of the game. How is that getting to us? A great comeback after that though. Feckers :pac:

busbybhoy · 06-08-2009 03:34PM

If teams end up having big time gaps between games why dont they organise friendlies; sorry of course i meant "challenges" with other teams in a simliar situation?

The obvious downside of this is the risk of injury to key players due to the physical nature of the game but if its game time they need it has to be an option.

I witnessed Kerry warming up from about 50 yards away before the '06final and i couldnt believe the intensity and physicality of the warm up where as Mayo looked like they were about to take to the stage for Swan Lake (And yes i am from mayo)

busbybhoy · 06-08-2009 03:43PM

JazzyJ wrote: »

To be honest I think Mondays game was just one of those games where one of the teams doesn't bother to turn up and the other team plays exceptionally well. You just have to look at Cork/Donegal the day before. In both cases I don't think that there would be that much of a difference on an average day.

OT:

No you didn't. We raced into a 7 point lead at the start of the game. How is that getting to us? A great comeback after that though. Feckers :pac:

Ye tend to race to a 5/7 point lead against most teams....Kerry had the right approach at the weekend by playing ye at your own game in the first 10. I honestly think that Dublin are nowhere near as bad as they played but i also believe that Kerry peaked last weekend. They went from 2nd to 5th gear between their last 2 games. Hopefully the gearbox will pack in and they will get stuck in 3rd for the next game

As for the "antics" in front of the hill, i have no doubt that it affected some of the Dublin players over the 70 mins.

jj72 · 06-08-2009 05:43PM

No you didn't. We raced into a 7 point lead at the start of the game. How is that getting to us? A great comeback after that though. Feckers :pac:[/quote]

im afraid we did! it was actually Mayo who raced into the early lead but you guys got two goal midway through the match......it was then we got lucky

Carawaystick · 07-08-2009 12:16AM

grenache wrote: »

I have 2 problems with football qualifiers.

Firstly, the time difference in how long the beaten provincial finalists have to wait to play in the qualifiers is a joke. Antrim had to face Kerry only 6 days after losing the Ulster final to Tyrone. That is most unfair as it did not give Antrim sufficient recovery time to be either mentally or physicaly prepared for Kerry. 6 days is too short a space between games. Limerick on the other hand had 4 weeks to wait for their qualifier and this too is equally ludicrious. The drawn Wexford-Roscommon game was largely to blame for this as Meath had to wait an extra week to find out who they would play in round 3. But making Limerick having to wait 4 weeks is practically as bad as making Antrim play after 6 days, it leaves them rusty and not up to match speed. Limerick looked totally off the pace last Saturday nite and i would propose that the 4 week lay-off played a significant role in this. Beaten provincial finalists should have a minimum 2 week, maximum 3 week gap between the final and their qualifier game.

Secondly, there should be no replays. All games should be decided on the day/night. They should go to extra time and even golden points if needs be. The scenario where a couple of drawn games holds up the championship for weeks on end must not be allowed to come about.

The provincial councils are to blame for the delays n provicnial finals. the Conacht championship started on the 10th of May, yet the final was the 21st of July.
Leinster started after them and finished before them.

The change I'd make to the qualifiers would eb to schedule a break after round two and a fortnight between the last round and AI 1/4 finals. expecting teams to play 5 or 6 weekends in a row is not on in a competition where Mayo need only play 5 matches from May to September to win the AI.

ColeTrain · 07-08-2009 03:50AM

JazzyJ wrote: »

OT:

No you didn't. We raced into a 7 point lead at the start of the game. How is that getting to us? A great comeback after that though. Feckers :pac:

OT:

Yes we did mate :P

premierstone · 07-08-2009 10:36AM

Carawaystick wrote: »

expecting teams to play 5 or 6 weekends in a row is not on in a competition where Mayo need only play 5 matches from May to September to win the AI.

Easiest way to avoid playing 5 or 6 weeks in a row?? Dont get beaten! Are you suggesting altering the system to give even further advantages to a team that has already been beaten?

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