It's official: Dublin has no bicycle lanes

gzoladz · 30-07-2009 08:41PM #1

I will make it as brief as possible: today I was cycling today from work to town on Parnell St and I stopped at the traffic lights just before crossing O'Connell st.

Next to me, also waiting for the lights, was a Garda car.

During that bit that goes from Gardiner st to O'Connell st, there were no fewer than 6 cars blocking 100% of the bicycle lane. Not parking, just standing there. So I wave the Gardai (a lady and a guy) who were in the car and I point it out to them.

From all the explanations I was given, the most outstanding probably was: "You need to raise it with the city council as that bicycle lane shouldn't be there because it make the car's line to narrow, there is nothing we can do...".

Gavin · 30-07-2009 09:02PM

There's a cycle lane there ? Is it a dashed line ? I don't remember ever noticing one.

blorg · 30-07-2009 09:53PM

If it is a dashed line cars can drive in it. There are some bike lanes (generally dashed line) where indeed it would be impossible to drive a car on the road without driving in the cycle lane. What sort of line was it?

Note I clicked into this thread expecting an announcement that the mandatory use law had just been officially repealed, so I am not very happy with you OP.

petethedrummer · 31-07-2009 12:22AM

You ungrateful shower of sh!tes, there are loads of lovely cycle lanes in this city. Stop being so picky: http://www.flickr.com/groups/dublincyclelanes/pool/show/with/3766628325/

I'm going to write to the council to ask if I can hold a bike race on this particular beauty.

TheBandit · 31-07-2009 01:17AM

"I'm proud to be here today as Minister for Transport. Droves of people are taking to cycling and I like to think these cycle paths we built have something to do with it. Some people will say these paths are not long enough but sure these people haven't heard of sprints. Lets hope we find our own Hussein Bolt on a bike today" Minister Noel Dempsey quoted at the Dublin Cycle Path Sprints today

NeilMcEoigheann · 31-07-2009 04:49AM

blorg wrote: »

Note I clicked into this thread expecting an announcement that the mandatory use law had just been officially repealed, so I am not very happy with you OP.

me too. but i don't pay attention to those anyway.

petethedrummer · 31-07-2009 06:30AM

TheBandit wrote: »

NIIICE but that makes it look about 3 times bigger than it actually is.

kenmc · 31-07-2009 08:39AM

petethedrummer wrote: »

NIIICE but that makes it him look about 3 times bigger than it he actually is.

FYP.

But I was always under the mistaken belief that it was the polices' job to ENFORCE the law, not to MAKE the law :rolleyes:

Well I suppose you learn something new every day.

Turbulent Bill · 31-07-2009 09:45AM

There's a tremendous new cycle lane over the railway bridge in Portmarnock, which appears and disappears on either side of the bridge, leading either to a footpath or directly into a hedge. Will have to get a photo the next time I'm passing, it's genius.

niceonetom · 31-07-2009 10:04AM

kenmc wrote: »

But I was always under the mistaken belief that it was the polices' job to ENFORCE the law, not to MAKE the law :rolleyes:

Ah but to ENFORCE the law they would first have to KNOW it. Working on a make-it-up-as-you-go-along basis is much more efficient, don'tcha know.

kona · 31-07-2009 11:39AM

As much as I love agreeing that gardai are lazy ****ers, I think in this situation they are correct.:o

Cars are allowed enter the cycle lane regardles of continuous line or not If:

You need to filter to the left if there is a car turning right You need to filter left to negotiate a blockage/obsticle Turning left
Unless the cars were just abandoned Parked, The cars are not doing any wrong IMO.

blorg · 31-07-2009 12:07PM

kona wrote: »

Cars are allowed enter the cycle lane regardles of continuous line or not If:
You need to filter to the left if there is a car turning right You need to filter left to negotiate a blockage/obsticle Turning left

Kona, I don't think that is the case at all. As far as I am aware the only cases you can drive in a continuous white line cycle track during its period of operation are (1) when entering or exiting from a place across the track or (2) in an emergency situation. Note case two is a general opt out from all road traffic regulations, nothing specific to cycle tracks, e.g. you can cross a solid white line to drive on the wrong side of the road if you had to swerve to avoid a child running out, that sort of thing. The emergency services also get an opt out.

S.I. No. 274/1998 &#8212 wrote: »

(5) (a) A mechanically propelled vehicle, other than a mechanically propelled wheelchair, shall not be driven along or across a cycle track on the right hand edge of which traffic sign number RRM 022 [continuous white line] has been provided, save for the purpose of access to or egress from a place adjacent to the cycle track or from a roadway to such a place.

(b) A reference in paragraph (a) to driving along or across a cycle track shall include a reference to driving wholly or partly along or across a cycle track.

RRM 023 (dashed white line) cars can drive in all they like but can only park in for 30 minutes while loading/unloading.

kona · 31-07-2009 12:16PM

blorg wrote: »

Kona, I don't think that is the case at all. As far as I am aware the only cases you can drive in a continuous white line cycle track during its period of operation are (1) when entering or exiting from a place across the track or (2) in an emergency situation. Note case two is a general opt out from all road traffic regulations, nothing specific to cycle tracks, e.g. you can cross a solid white line to drive on the wrong side of the road if you had to swerve to avoid a child running out, that sort of thing. The emergency services also get an opt out.

RRM 023 (dashed white line) cars can drive in all they like but can only park in for 30 minutes while loading/unloading.

I specifically asked this to a driving instructor a few years ago, because I was well aware of the issue. I believed a car couldnt enter full stop.
He told me what I said above, I passed my test and I did indeed have to move into a cycle lane, I didnt get a mark for it.

It makes sense if you think about it.

I believe the garda were right, and that its DCC problem for putting a lane in such a dumb place.

Although this arument is a bit neither here nor there, wasnt it announced that cycle lanes are not compulsory because they are so ****? Id take this as them being annonced to be open to all trafic in that case?

Bunnyhopper · 31-07-2009 12:34PM

Two pictures taken on Parnell Street on Tuesday last (28th) at about 3pm - so well within the cycle lane's time of operation. They're taxis/cabs, and from what I could see were all parked rather than just stopped. It's a different location to the one mentioned by the OP but I thought I'd post them anyway.

kenmc · 31-07-2009 12:35PM

kona wrote: »

I specifically asked this to a driving instructor a few years ago, because I was well aware of the issue. I believed a car couldnt enter full stop.
He told me what I said above, I passed my test and I did indeed have to move into a cycle lane, I didnt get a mark for it.

It makes sense if you think about it.

I believe the garda were right, and that its DCC problem for putting a lane in such a dumb place.

Although this arument is a bit neither here nor there, wasnt it announced that cycle lanes are not compulsory because they are so ****? Id take this as them being annonced to be open to all trafic in that case?

I wouldn't. They're still cycle tracks, but we're not constrained to them in the event that they are littered with - well all sorts of litter : rubbish, cars, pedestrians etc.

blorg · 31-07-2009 12:38PM

@Kona- there is always the possibility that your driving instructor and tester were not aware of the law, it is common enough. I doubt there is _anything_ related to cyclists or cycle lanes in the framework of the test frankly.

But as far as I can make out from the law cars are simply not allowed in mandatory cycle lanes, with the two exceptions above. It would be the same as driving on the footpath.

There are indeed situations (such as undertaking a car turning right) where it is common sense to go into a solid white line cycle lane presuming there is no cyclist already there- but this does not mean it is actually legal. Would you go up on the footpath to make the same manoeuvre?

There are lots of things that are not actually legal that drivers do all the time, some of them probably even make sense, keep traffic flowing without creating a danger... For example driving in a bus lane early where it is clear and you are making a turn left but legally you should stick in the queue until your left filter light actually goes red because the bus lane actually only terminates 20m from the junction...

In the same vein cyclists break the law where it doesn't make sense. This doesn't change the law however.

The repeal of mandatory cycle lanes has not happened yet. We will see what happens when the legislation was published but I would imagine we will just see a removal of the requirement that cyclists use cycle lanes, I don't imagine the rules saying cars cannot enter them will be removed.

kona · 31-07-2009 12:40PM

Bunnyhopper wrote: »

Two pictures taken on Parnell Street on Tuesday last (28th) at about 3pm - so well within the cycle lane's time of operation. They're taxis/cabs, and from what I could see were all parked rather than just stopped. It's a different location to the one mentioned by the OP but I thought I'd post them anyway.

Taxi drivers are a bollix for this, In the past few months ive noticed them qing in the cycling lane, just to get into the rank, its that type of thing that pisses me off. Its not helping any other road user(then again they are taxi drivers:rolleyes:).

If the law was enforced it would solve alot of problems. If this is what the OP is talking about then I agree.

I nearly crashed the car down by heuston, because of these dicks "Qing" in the bus lane, Its a disgrace.

blorg · 31-07-2009 12:41PM

Bunnyhopper wrote: »

Two pictures taken on Parnell Street on Tuesday last (28th) at about 3pm - so well within the cycle lane's time of operation. They're taxis/cabs, and from what I could see were all parked rather than just stopped. It's a different location to the one mentioned by the OP but I thought I'd post them anyway.

Legally they can park there for up to 30 minutes for the purpose of loading/unloading. There would have to be a clearway or double yellow in addition to the cycle track to prevent this (note no-one is parking where there is indeed a double yellow.

kona · 31-07-2009 12:50PM

blorg wrote: »

@Kona- there is always the possibility that your driving instructor and tester were not aware of the law, it is common enough. I doubt there is _anything_ related to cyclists or cycle lanes in the framework of the test frankly.

.

Id be inclinded to believe my Instructor, his advice has got me through 2 years with no accidents or points.

At rush hour, its madness, IMo while it may not be to everybodys liking, I find it acceptable for car to be in the cycle lane, undertaking traffic turning right and if they are in a Q for a left turn.
I just move out into the road. Its a very bad and IMO unsafe attitude to be of the opinion that cycle lanes are only going to be used by bikes, For the most part they are poorley planned and poorley constructed. I personally just treat them as the side of the road.

blorg · 31-07-2009 12:54PM

kona wrote: »

Id be inclinded to believe my Instructor, his advice has got me through 2 years with no accidents or points.

This doesn't mean he knows the actual law on the matter. Generally you are going to be a better driver if you pay more attention to attentive defensive driving, courtesy to other road users and common sense...

At rush hour, its madness, IMo while it may not be to everybodys liking, I find it acceptable for car to be in the cycle lane, undertaking traffic turning right and if they are in a Q for a left turn.
I just move out into the road. Its a very bad and IMO unsafe attitude to be of the opinion that cycle lanes are only going to be used by bikes, For the most part they are poorley planned and poorley constructed. I personally just treat them as the side of the road.

You are legally allowed treat them that way and drive in them if they have a dashed white line. The majority of lanes that you might want to drive in DO have a dashed white line. You are not legally allowed drive in them to undertake if it is a solid white line. Is it acceptable if there are no cyclists in the lane? Sure, in my opinion. But it is not legal. The gardaí generally take a common sense approach to enforcing the law, in much the same way thousands of cyclists every day illegally do not use available cycle lanes but I have never heard of one being prosecuted for it.

kona · 31-07-2009 12:59PM

blorg wrote: »

, in much the same way thousands of cyclists every day illegally do not use available cycle lanes but I have never heard of one being prosecuted for it.

I was actually thinking this when I read the OP.:D Didnt want to stir the **** though;)

I agree that common sense comes into it, personally id rather share the lanes with traffic when they need to ,and in return being able to move out into traffic when I need to, as apposed to rigidly adhering to staying in the cycle lanes.

LordDorington · 31-07-2009 01:04PM

petethedrummer wrote: »

You ungrateful shower of sh!tes, there are loads of lovely cycle lanes in this city. Stop being so picky: http://www.flickr.com/groups/dublincyclelanes/pool/show/with/3766628325/

I'm going to write to the council to ask if I can hold a bike race on this particular beauty.

there are loads of cycle lanes. And I am sick of being stuck on buses that have to crawl along because some stupid cyclist in front is cycling like ten feet away from the path

kenmc · 31-07-2009 01:09PM

Woohoo it's FRIDAY!!!!!
Get out of the bus and walk or cycle if you don't like being stuck. FFS. Don't be so lazy!

Gavin · 31-07-2009 01:16PM

LordDorington wrote: »

there are loads of cycle lanes. And I am sick of being stuck on buses that have to crawl along because some stupid cyclist in front is cycling like ten feet away from the path

The Friday Troll has arrived ! Welcome !

kona · 31-07-2009 01:20PM

LordDorington wrote: »

there are loads of cycle lanes. And I am sick of being stuck on buses that have to crawl along because some stupid cyclist in front is cycling like ten feet away from the path

Buy a bike, and get into work faster. Duh.

Personally Id be moaning about the fat smelly, sweaty bastard beside me on the bus, roaring down the phone.

LordDorington · 31-07-2009 01:23PM

Gavin wrote: »

The Friday Troll has arrived ! Welcome !

Why thank you!

LordDorington · 31-07-2009 01:24PM

kona wrote: »

Buy a bike, and get into work faster. Duh.

Personally Id be moaning about the fat smelly, sweaty bastard beside me on the bus, roaring down the phone.

Can I commend you on sticking to the point? my my you ARE good at keeping the posts relevant aren't you ha ha

LordDorington · 31-07-2009 01:25PM

kenmc wrote: »

Woohoo it's FRIDAY!!!!!
Get out of the bus and walk or cycle if you don't like being stuck. FFS. Don't be so lazy!

Well some of us would rather NOT arrive in work sweaty with messed up hair, no makeup and unsuitable office attire.. Then again, depends what kind of job you have doesnt it? smirk...

TheBandit · 31-07-2009 01:25PM

LordDorington wrote: »

there are loads of cycle lanes. And I am sick of being stuck on buses that have to crawl along because some stupid cyclist in front is cycling like ten feet away from the path

Yes but even his grace recognises they're ‘‘often of a poor standard’’. I'm not gonna cycle in a lane that is discrete, pockmarked, full of glass or pedestrians; its not safe or its just plain annoying. In any way Dublin bus drivers normally just disregard safety and overtake cyclists willie nillie, so your not likely to be delayed

Edit: (hand rises)...I like to arrive to work with no makeup

petethedrummer · 31-07-2009 01:25PM

LordDorington wrote: »

there are loads of cycle lanes. And I am sick of being stuck on buses that have to crawl along because some stupid cyclist in front is cycling like ten feet away from the path

Woohooo!!!!!!!

Did u actually look at the slide show above??? Make it full screen and press the 'show info' button.

kona · 31-07-2009 01:26PM

LordDorington wrote: »

Can I commend you on sticking to the point? my my you ARE good at keeping the posts relevant aren't you ha ha

you ARE a Idiot.

ha see how caps make things stand out???

youve gone onto a thread about cycle lanes and brought up travelling by bus..

Moron.

It's official: Dublin has no bicycle lanes

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