Can you bypass the estate agent?

Feeonaw · 23-07-2009 8:27am #1

Hi,

Does anyone know if it would be a good idea to bypass the estate agent and go directly to the owner of the house for sale? (a letter/leaflet through the door maybe?) Can you get in trouble for doing this?

My boyfriend and I are looking for a 3-4 bed house in Malahide. Our absolute max is 400k but everytime we make an offer we are outbid. We have loan approval but it doesn't seem to matter.

A lot of estate agents don't even get back to us...and the house we have bid on stays on the market (and daft) for ages even though they tell us that a sale has almost been agreed. I'm starting to wonder whether they're even passing on our information to sellers! Is this allowed? Are they just trying to get the maximum amount of money for themselves, even if the seller would be happy to drop the price for a quicker sale?

Does anyone know of any houses for sale in the area (even fixer uppers) where the owner would be willing to negotiate with us directly? If so, please PM me! We're 100% ready to go for the right house!

Any advice appreciated!

ntlbell · 23-07-2009 9:39am

there's nothing to stop you bypassing the agent.

shoot for the stars

Small Change · 23-07-2009 9:57am

Feeonaw wrote: »

I'm starting to wonder whether they're even passing on our information to sellers! Is this allowed? Are they just trying to get the maximum amount of money for themselves, even if the seller would be happy to drop the price for a quicker sale?

I think you can be fairly sure that the agents are passing on your offers..a lot of these guys are really going to the wall and are happy to get a sale at any price...I expect that it is the seller that is not willing to consider the offers

D3PO · 23-07-2009 10:25am

Small Change wrote: »

I think you can be fairly sure that the agents are passing on your offers..a lot of these guys are really going to the wall and are happy to get a sale at any price...I expect that it is the seller that is not willing to consider the offers

I wouldnt be so sure, there are a EA's out there that are underhand and jsut out for themselves. I mean a certain one who I wont name admitted either on Joe Duffy or Pat Kenny as to pushing up prices with Phantom bids.

if there willing to do that then you cant rule them out forgetting to pass on an offer that doesnt suit them due to the reduction in commision it would cost them if accepted

Raskolnikov · 23-07-2009 11:43am

Absolutely. A bid offer with contract details can be posted through the letterbox.

messrs · 23-07-2009 11:47am

how do you find out who is selling house if its adv through an EA? myself and my bf are also looking at houses and have put in bids on a few and EA never came back to us on any of them ( we are using more than one EA)
but we are not even been told that offer is to low and asked are we willing to increase - just no feedback at all.

Cathmandooo · 23-07-2009 1:25pm

I'm not sure how many sellers will humour a letter in the door with a bid. They still have to pay their EA for work done to date, the EA then organises the deposit and paperwork in conjunction with the solicitors. I doubt many people would want to have to organise all of that themselves.

It's still worth a try though, you've nothing to lose.

If the house is vacant and up for sale it would be very difficult to find out who is selling it, they wouldn't necessarily have to go near the house.

D3PO · 23-07-2009 1:29pm

Cathooo wrote: »

They still have to pay their EA for work done to date,

Most EA's get paid when a hosue sells apart from that you only would be on the hook for any advertising done so its win win for the vendor as they save on the comission.

How would the EA know you have sold privately ? The answer is they wouldnt.

Cathooo wrote: »

the EA then organises the deposit and paperwork in conjunction with the solicitors. I doubt many people would want to have to organise all of that themselves.

Yeah its really hard to ask the buyer for their solicitors details and to pass them onto your solicitor to deal with. Nobody would want to do that I mean its one whole phone call ....

Cathmandooo · 23-07-2009 1:44pm

D3PO wrote: »

Most EA's get paid when a hosue sells apart from that you only would be on the hook for any advertising done so its win win for the vendor as they save on the comission.

How would the EA know you have sold privately ? The answer is they wouldnt.

Commission would be gone yes but advertising, brochure, board and other costs add up and have to be paid for. Plus there's the chance that the EA might get a better price than what's offered by a private bidder.

D3PO wrote: »

Yeah its really hard to ask the buyer for their solicitors details and to pass them onto your solicitor to deal with. Nobody would want to do that I mean its one whole phone call ....

I'd love to see it all done in one phone call, if you can do it in one call then fair play.

D3PO · 23-07-2009 1:51pm

Cathooo wrote: »

Commission would be gone yes but advertising, brochure, board and other costs add up and have to be paid for. Plus there's the chance that the EA might get a better price than what's offered by a private bidder.

I'd love to see it all done in one phone call, if you can do it in one call then fair play.

so your on the hook for what probably about 600 euro for advertising and your saving what probably 1% of the house sale price.

my point re the solicitor piece is that its little more than a phone call or multiple phone calls maybe 1 a week to make sure things are progressing.

Regarding an ES getting you a better price than selling yourself. Explain how this is possible ? Unless the EA is bulls**tting the buyer with false bids.

its a very simple transaction the buyer makes a bid you decide to accept or reject the bid. All the EA does if follow your instruction as to weather to accept or reject.

Cathmandooo · 23-07-2009 2:26pm

D3PO wrote: »

so your on the hook for what probably about 600 euro for advertising and your saving what probably 1% of the house sale price.

my point re the solicitor piece is that its little more than a phone call or multiple phone calls maybe 1 a week to make sure things are progressing.

Personally I think it takes a good bit more than a call a week to a solicitors but that's from my experience, people's experiences can be very different.

D3PO wrote: »

Regarding an ES getting you a better price than selling yourself. Explain how this is possible ? Unless the EA is bulls**tting the buyer with false bids.

its a very simple transaction the buyer makes a bid you decide to accept or reject the bid. All the EA does if follow your instruction as to weather to accept or reject.

It's very possible, lets say you'll take 350k for your property. Someone has given the EA an offer of 340k, a random offer comes in your door for 340k but the EA is still working away and negotiating with bidders, a bid comes in for 350 after being told 340 is a non runner. How is that a false bid when that's the whole nature of bidding for a property?

D3PO · 23-07-2009 2:33pm

Cathooo wrote: »

It's very possible, lets say you'll take 350k for your property. Someone has given the EA an offer of 340k, a random offer comes in your door for 340k but the EA is still working away and negotiating with bidders, a bid comes in for 350 after being told 340 is a non runner. How is that a false bid when that's the whole nature of bidding for a property?

ok so remove the EA from the equation. Your negotiating the with bidders, whats the difference ? You seem to think the EA's are finincial wizards excellent at negotiations. There not most of them are terrible at selling.

so you get an offer of 340k privately you either accept this or you say "no we are asking 350k come back with 350k and deal is done"

ZYX · 23-07-2009 2:37pm

If you put your house for sale with an auctioneer you have to pay the commission even if you sell it privately. You would not save the 1%. You would save nothing.

D3PO · 23-07-2009 2:40pm

ZYX wrote: »

If you put your house for sale with an auctioneer you have to pay the commission even if you sell it privately. You would not save the 1%. You would save nothing.

how would the estate agent know you have sold ?

and what is the timeframe that allows them to gain commision ?

Cathmandooo · 23-07-2009 2:42pm

D3PO wrote: »

ok so remove the EA from the equation. Your negotiating the with bidders, whats the difference ? You seem to think the EA's are finincial wizards excellent at negotiations. There not most of them are terrible at selling.

so you get an offer of 340k privately you either accept this or you say "no we are asking 350k come back with 350k and deal is done"

If there's no difference between selling with an estate agent and selling a house yourself then they wouldn't exist. I don't think they're financial wizards either, they provide a service is all. Some aren't great, others do a good job, same for most professions.

ZYX · 23-07-2009 2:42pm

D3PO wrote: »

how would the estate agent know you have sold ?

well when they are bringing a viewer to property they might notice if someone is living there

D3PO wrote: »

and what is the timeframe that allows them to gain commision ?

Depends on contract

D3PO · 23-07-2009 2:45pm

ZYX wrote: »

well when they are bringing a viewer to property they might notice if someone is living there

Depends on contract

why would the EA being bringing a buyer to view the property if you had notified them you no longer wanted them to sell the property on your behalf ....

ntlbell · 23-07-2009 2:46pm

Cathooo wrote: »

If there's no difference between selling with an estate agent and selling a house yourself then they wouldn't exist. I don't think they're financial wizards either, they provide a service is all. Some aren't great, others do a good job, same for most professions.

The differences aren't as great as they once were.

the vast majority have the full DB of all houses for sale in any country in the world at the fingertips and if they don't they're no more than a short bus journey away.

getting exposure for your own home is a lot easier than it ever was.

The difference is some time, if it costs you more in your own time than it does to use an EA then it doesn't make sense to do it yourself

for most people this will not be the case.

so there's very very few advantages of using an EA

and a hell of a lot more advantages doing it yourself.

ZYX · 23-07-2009 2:48pm

D3PO wrote: »

why would the EA being bringing a buyer to view the property if you had notified them you no longer wanted them to sell the property on your behalf ....

When you engage an auctioneer you sign a legally binding contract. You have obligations in law.

D3PO · 23-07-2009 3:01pm

ZYX wrote: »

When you engage an auctioneer you sign a legally binding contract. You have obligations in law.

im never said you didnt. I clearly asked the question how would they know you sold yourself, and the answer is they wouldnt.

ntlbell · 23-07-2009 3:03pm

ZYX wrote: »

If you put your house for sale with an auctioneer you have to pay the commission even if you sell it privately. You would not save the 1%. You would save nothing.

it's irrelevant to the buyer, the whole point as a buyer to bypass the agent is to make sure your bid is reaching it's target IMO I've no interest in saving the seller money.

If the EA is not fulfilling his contract, e.g. not passing on bids etc I'm sure there would be no problem getting out of it as a breach of contract etc.

ZYX · 23-07-2009 3:06pm

D3PO wrote: »

im never said you didnt. I clearly asked the question how would they know you sold yourself, and the answer is they wouldnt.

Oh for God's sake

They walk past house and see someone living there
Someone in office lives near house and knows it has sold
Other neighbours hire EA because they think he sold first house
Person who bought house wants to rent it out and hires EA
Solicitor accidently contacts them re sale as they think they are still selling

etc etc.

ntlbell · 23-07-2009 3:10pm

ZYX wrote: »

When you engage an auctioneer you sign a legally binding contract. You have obligations in law.

have you got the wording of any of these contracts?

I was always of the opinion that if you sold the house through other means while it was listed with another auctioneer you had to pay, but I never heard of not being able to sell after X amount of time.

have examples of court cases or anything?

Feeonaw · 24-07-2009 4:39pm

Thanks to everyone for replying - we're gonna try a letter in the door marked 'private' and who knows?!

JuliusCaesar · 24-07-2009 7:38pm

A lot of owners/sellers are still in cloud-cuckoo land as regards prices. When I was looking at houses last autumn, I went to see one on the market for 460K. I told the EA the max I would offer on it at that time was 380K. He told me that the owners had rejected an offer of 420, and he was mad with them.

It's still up for sale...........having had new roof, new windows, new gutters and fascia done in the meantime. Asking price on daft now - "excess 380K".

blast05 · 25-07-2009 12:09am

There is a business opportunity here somewhere (but a bottle of wine later prevents me from seeing it !).
Basically, i'd say threre is many the home owner who would be interested in considering any offers but don't want to put their gaff up for sale cos they have good tenants.
Me ..... have a house that is rented. Its peak value was 420K ..... i would sell for 240K at this moment (want to trade up my principal primary residence to a bigger house in a different area before my 2 year old starts school - yes, have 2-3 years to play with). Don't want to even consider putting it up for sale as have the perfect tenants who i know will be there for the next 2-3 years.
Its located in the most prime real estate estate in what would be the most prime real estate town in county Meath if anyone wants to mail me

Feeonaw - its a beautiful part of the country and only 15-20 minutes from Malahide !!!!

Can you bypass the estate agent?

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