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An Bord Snip Nua

13567…12

Comments

  • #62
    turgon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,762 ✭✭✭turgon


    is_that_so wrote: »
    The French bit the bullet some years back because of that very problem and paid women up to €1000 a month to have a third child.

    And Im sure the quality of those children was just great. Because you know when the government offers you a cash handout in return for a baby its the most responsible, loving and caring people that take advantage. Right?


  • #63
    JonathanAnon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,718 ✭✭✭✭JonathanAnon


    http://www.online-stopwatch.com/

    okay, go to this site and set it running... see how long it takes a FF representative to go in front of the cameras.


  • #64
    Darragh29
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,097 ✭✭✭Darragh29


    whippet wrote: »
    fierce resistance will find the missing €20bn !!!! attitudes like that will serve the country no use and will actually bring us further in to the financial cesspit.

    you have contridicted yourself, you started off by blaming the workers who over charged and squandered and then later laid the flat of the blame on the bankers and developers .... pointless argument !

    Hang on a minute, these c*nts are just about to shut down half the country, yet they are still claiming unvouched expenses, something I'm sure you wouldn't see in Zimbabwe...


  • #65
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    turgon wrote: »
    And Im sure the quality of those children was just great. Because you know when the government offers you a cash handout in return for a baby its the most responsible, loving and caring people that take advantage.

    :rolleyes:


  • #66
    1huge1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,180 ✭✭✭1huge1


    The Economist wrote: »
    Fascinating contribution. We need to cutback €4bn, do you really think the UCD School of Economics can make much of a dent in that?

    And fwiw McCarthy took a huge pay cut to go from the private sector to work for UCD. So your cynicism isn't just cheap, it's mis-placed.
    I know this might be considered as a baseless comment aswel, but I wonder how much he got paid for this. He is putting his reputation on the line and will get a lot of public scrutiny even if it was the right thing.

    Anyway the cuts are staggering to look at, I believe cuts had to be taken but increasing charges in hospitals when were trying to reduce costs in this country...
    It seems the private sector has to take the brunt when it comes to lowering charges. (with the exception of insurance companies)


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  • #67
    Hellrazer
    Moderators, Arts Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 11,027 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hellrazer


    Akrasia wrote: »
    Without trying to be provocative, how many of your hard working friends were gouging during the boom, charging extortionate rates per hour as tradespeople, and taking that money and wasting it on overpriced ego trip houses and 'investments' (money for nothing) How many of those people woild have been sitting around a bar stool moaning about the scroungers on welfare and saying the dole should be cut. The people who demanded everything during the bubble they helped create are now demanding help when their fantasy comes back to reality.



    To be totally honest not many of them.The majority of them would have been your average run of the mill middle income earner--Im in the Motor trade and the wages were always just average unless you owned the place.
    Most of these lads were mechanics who couldnt have afforded to splash out on luxury homes and huge investment portfolios even at the height of the boom.
    Some of them are in serious trouble with mortgage payments even with the modest mortgages they took out and now the talk of dole cuts has them really worried.

    I think its this sector of society thats going to take the biggest cuts as usual.


  • #68
    turgon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,762 ✭✭✭turgon


    rarnes1 wrote: »
    :rolleyes:

    All bow before rarnes1 and his infallible argument consisting totally and wholly of the immortal rolleyes!!!!

    Or, care to expand upon what you really mean? Or am I a bit below you? I got a feeling your a just a bit to good for me? Dare I even address you my brave hero?


  • #69
    whippet
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,743 ✭✭✭whippet


    Darragh29 wrote: »
    Hang on a minute, these c*nts are just about to shut down half the country, yet they are still claiming unvouched expenses, something I'm sure you wouldn't see in Zimbabwe...

    who did I mention that you are on about ?

    Who's shutting down half the country?

    Comparing an independent report, published like this to anything from Zimbabwe is pathetic and childish .. not even worth responding to.


  • #70
    flame123
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 49 ✭flame123


    As our illustrious leader.. Brian Cowen is earning more than most world leaders, was there any mention of him taking a reduction in salary commensurate with the size of the country......


  • #71
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,850 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    Obviously this is a topic people have strong feelings about, so I suggest everyone take several deep breaths before posting.


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  • #72
    turgon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,762 ✭✭✭turgon


    flame123 wrote: »
    As our illustrious leader.. Brian Cowen is earning more than most world leaders, was there any mention of him taking a reduction in salary commensurate with the size of the country......

    Because that will really help the billions of budget debts.

    It about time everyone dropped their ideals and started being pragmatic.


  • #73
    whippet
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,743 ✭✭✭whippet


    flame123 wrote: »
    As our illustrious leader.. Brian Cowen is earning more than most world leaders, was there any mention of him taking a reduction in salary commensurate with the size of the country......

    it is agruments and statements like this which deflect the argument from the actual issue, there is a hole in the region of €20bn that has to be filled.

    But why talk about this when we can pick on the likes of Ryan Tubridy and Brian Cowen's wages?

    This issue is bigger than the government, it's about the financial viability of OUR country.


  • #74
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    turgon wrote: »
    All bow before rarnes1 and his infallible argument consisting totally and wholly of the immortal rolleyes!!!!

    Or, care to expand upon what you really mean? Or am I a bit below you? I got a feeling your a just a bit to good for me? Dare I even address you my brave hero?

    I just thought your post regarding " the quality of the children" was quite snobbish.


  • #75
    irish_bob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,271 ✭✭✭irish_bob


    nice_guy80 wrote: »
    I think the small schools will be the most fiercely resisted in rural Ireland.

    They provide a vital service for rural communities (often the only thing left in rural areas) and merging them with other schools will only mean kids having to travel further each day by bus or car

    irish people need to realise that you cant have a school , hospital , cinema , football stadium in every little one horse town in the country

    the parish i live in , population 1500 , thier are three schools , one has 40 pupils in it and the furthest anyone would have to drive to bring thier kids to school (were they to merge into one school ) is four miles but heaven forbid anyone would make such a sugestion

    with half the country on the dole , parents will have plenty of time to bring thier kids to school


  • #76
    Amalgam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,026 ✭✭✭Amalgam


    ---

    Just a refresh. I only found a link to volume one further back.

    Volume one.

    http://files.getdropbox.com/u/1181831/Bord%20Snip%20Nua/Vol%201.pdf

    Volume two.

    http://files.getdropbox.com/u/1181831/Bord%20Snip%20Nua/Vol%202.pdf

    ---


  • #77
    techdiver
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,541 ✭✭✭techdiver


    rarnes1 wrote: »
    I just thought your post regarding " the quality of the children" was quite snobbish.

    You may call it snobbish, whereas I would call it realistic. We need future earners in the system, not future scroungers! You can be all PC about this if you want, but a child born to scumbag parents tend to become scumbags themselves.


  • #78
    Darragh29
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,097 ✭✭✭Darragh29


    whippet wrote: »
    who did I mention that you are on about ?

    Who's shutting down half the country?

    Comparing an independent report, published like this to anything from Zimbabwe is pathetic and childish .. not even worth responding to.

    These cuts are all going to result in serious job losses, this will result in less economic activity and a deeper despression than the one we are now in.

    All I'm saying is that there are serious serious cuts coming down the tracks here, and the people making them can still fill out a form for any expenses they wish, no receipts required, no transparency, nothing!

    I know of one TD who went to a man's funeral in this area not so long ago and he was a business associate of the man who died.

    Now I know that he put travel expenses and overnight expenses through his TD's expenses for this. Probably around 500 Euro in expenses to attend a funeral that had more to do with his business undertakings with the deceased than anything to do with his constituency work.

    This is what is going on, but the same man who claimed these expenses is at some stage probably going to vote in the Dail for these savage cutbacks???


  • #79
    irish_bob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,271 ✭✭✭irish_bob


    Darragh29 wrote: »
    Am listening to RTE1 here, Jesus I'm sick of all these union representatives queueing up to pick a fight. Peter Mc Loone now weighing in for a row after the break.

    What parrallel universe are these people living in???? Half of my mates are now unemployed! These guys on the radio still have their snouts in the trough, they've bullied pay increases out of us for years and now the chickens have come home to roost.

    We need a TV documentary along the lines of Channel 4's "Wifeswap", but instead of two couple's swapping their wives for a week, we get a public sector worker and a private sector worker to swop roles for a week.

    We'd soon see how the public sector worker would cope with coming in to work on a Saturday FOR FREE, seeing their colleagues being let go because the company can't afford to keep them on, and then you having to do their job FOR FREE as well!!!

    How would be public sector worker deal with being handed a wages cheque on Friday but being told not to lodge it until the following Tuesday because the bank won't honour it until then???

    This is what is going on in the private sector up and down the country. I've a mate with three weeks wages cheque's up on his bedroom wall, they've all bounced, but he's still working (basically for free), to see if he can help get his employer out of the hole he is in at the moment...



    the likes of peter mcloone are always given a soft ride on the national broadcaster , the teachers union head was let spin and rant to his hearts content by sean o rourke on news at one , listening to the union heads crocodile tears about the kids having to endure higher class sizes , i had to ask myself what journalist worth his salt would neglect to ask the obvious question , will teachers be willing to take a pay cut so as to avoid an increase in class sizes , did sean o rourke do this , not on your nelly , contrast this with ger gilroy on newstalk where he allowed jack o connor hang himself by asking the obvious questions and politley refusing to let the bearded wonder spin , lie and protest , o connor was shown up for the windbag he is


  • #80
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    techdiver wrote: »
    You may call it snobbish, whereas I would call it realistic. We need future earners in the system, not future scroungers! You can be all PC about this if you want, but a child born to scumbag parents tend to become scumbags themselves.

    Might just be best to neuter them to reduce the number of scumbags. Our problem here is that we are still far too generous for children way beyond the third child.

    Here's how the French went about it, not freebies for scumbags.
    ...
    Despite female employment statistics that are the envy of the continent, the government remains worried about the reluctance of better-educated women to have babies. A plan to be unveiled by the prime minister, Dominique de Villepin, today is expected to double an existing cash incentive for big families.
    ...
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2005/sep/22/france.jonhenley1


  • #81
    turgon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,762 ✭✭✭turgon


    rarnes1 wrote: »
    I just thought your post regarding " the quality of the children" was quite snobbish.

    But you didnt think however to actually deal with it, rather just dismissing my point. If I am so snobbish why dont you show me the errors of my argument instead of giving me that stupid rolleyes smiley, which, incidentally, is probably the most snobbish way you can deal with a debate.


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  • #82
    Darragh29
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,097 ✭✭✭Darragh29


    irish_bob wrote: »
    the likes of peter mcloone are always given a soft ride on the national broadcaster , the teachers union head was let spin and rant to his hearts content by sean o rourke on news at one , listening to the union heads crocodile tears about the kids having to endure higher class sizes , i had to ask myself what journalist worth his salt would neglect to ask the obvious question , will teachers be willing to take a pay cut so as to avoid an increase in class sizes , did sean o rourke do this , not on your nelly , contrast this with ger gilroy on newstalk where he allowed jack o connor hang himself by asking the obvious questions and politley refusing to let the bearded wonder spin , lie and protest , o connor was shown up for the windbag he is

    Teachers, another profession that have been obstructing all and every effort to bring about accountability and transparency with regard to their performance on the job.


  • #83
    whippet
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,743 ✭✭✭whippet


    Darragh29 wrote: »
    I know of one TD who went to a man's funeral in this area not so long ago and he was a business associate of the man who died.

    Now I know that he put travel expenses and overnight expenses through his TD's expenses for this. Probably around 500 Euro in expenses to attend a funeral that had more to do with his business undertakings with the deceased than anything to do with his constituency work.

    i'd love to know how you know this !!! why don't you make a complaint about this abuse?

    How you feel about individual politicans shouldn't come in to this debate


  • #84
    luckat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,366 ✭✭✭luckat


    Bang goes Lisbon


  • #85
    turgon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,762 ✭✭✭turgon


    luckat wrote: »
    Bang goes Lisbon

    Ah but sure, it wouldt be that interesting in democracy really worked well now, would it? :)


  • #86
    Hillel
    Closed Accounts Posts: 376 ✭✭Hillel


    I've been reading some of the report, and no, I'm not skiving at work.

    In my view there's two ways this can go:

    1. Everyone, public and private sector, recognizes the scale of the problem and everyone rows in as best they can. While the wage cuts are greater in the private sector, this is offset by substantial increases in output and flexibility in the public sector. There is substantial pain all round, but the country gets back on its feet over 3-5 years.

    2. The public sector unions fight to protect their constituents at all costs. A craven government refuses to implement the necessary changes and the situation continues to deteriorate. The debt level becomes unsustainable, we cannot borrow more on the markets and external intervention is required (IMF, whatever). Here, Ireland's credibility is destroyed and it's back to net immigration.

    I would appeal to everyone to bring whatever influence they have to bear to ensure that path one is the way we go. I am not concerned for myself, my needs are modest, both in boom and bust. I have taken a (substantial) voluntary pay cut and will do whatever else I can to support my country. I am now looking to the government, and Brian Cowan in particular, to quickly make the changes outlined in the report. (If he hasn't the bottle to do this he should resign, forthwith.)


  • #87
    ParkRunner
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,141 ✭✭✭ParkRunner


    17,000 more people on social welfare and the rest of the public service will stop all but essential personal expenditure. This is going to be a long and spiralling recession!


  • #88
    granturismo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,976 ✭✭✭granturismo


    granturismo wrote: »
    I wonder if they recommend any cutbacks for the School of Economics in UCD? :rolleyes:

    In light of the recommendations on pages 64 & 65 of Part II, I should retract this cynical comment.


  • #89
    turgon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,762 ✭✭✭turgon


    EF wrote: »
    17,000 more people on social welfare and the rest of the public service will stop all but essential personal expenditure. This is going to be a long and spiralling recession!

    Personal xpenditure not helped of course by the loss in everyones disposable income due to tax hikes.


  • #90
    irish_bob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,271 ✭✭✭irish_bob


    EF wrote: »
    17,000 more people on social welfare and the rest of the public service will stop all but essential personal expenditure. This is going to be a long and spiralling recession!

    the 17000 inlcudes what they call natural reduction , retirements etc and besides 17000 sacked surplus to requirement civil servants are a lot cheaper for the state on 11000 in dole a year than double that on a wage


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  • #91
    Darragh29
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,097 ✭✭✭Darragh29


    whippet wrote: »
    i'd love to know how you know this !!! why don't you make a complaint about this abuse?

    Because I know someone who was looking to speak with him during the funeral and was told by his secretary that he was "on offical business"...

    With regard to the complaint, because I don't want to upset a grieving family that I'm close to with disruptive media intrusion...

    But that isn't my point, there should be systems and checks in place to make sure this kind of wastage can't happen. What else do you expect when there is no oversight and no control???


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