O Briens Sandwich bars in examinership

Midlandsbase wrote: »

"Ehh" i dont need to own a store to know that leaving bread in its packaging does not follow it goes stale IN AN HOUR.

I can speak for several stores actually - just as you can - unless you have visited them all and eaten in them all of course.

I am not slamming anyone on this forum - if anything I would have alot to say about O'Briens HQ and what they have cost me but some items being stated here are just incorrect.

Yeah ok. You seem like a complete shill so I'll opt out of this thread now.

Hopefully you'll have the foresight to see when a company is not worth investing in, next time

My name is URL wrote: »

Yeah ok. You seem like a complete shill so I'll opt out of this thread now.

Hopefully you'll have the foresight to see when a company is not worth investing in, next time

you know what - you are probably the type of person that will never attempt to open their own business, employ staff and contribute to the local community by way of sponsorship, etc. The fact you will opt out of this thread is irrelevant to me.

Come back when you've attempted to start your own venture. Hindsight - wow - wish I was as knowledgeable as you were.

Quint wrote: »

Fact is that a huge percentage have had such bad experiences in O'Briens. Every shop will suffer, they way I see it is that I was charged €6 (could have been €6.50) for ham and cheese toasted sandwich in town so i just won't go back. You can tell us it's not a fact, but sorry, it is.


This is the bad attitude of staff people were talking about.

I'm not disputing the fact that you paid 6.50 for a ham and cheese sandwich toasted - which I would have refused to pay by the way because you were overcharged and you still paid. Sandwich prices range from 3.95 upwards.

Ham and Cheese in the O'Briens I had and several others cost 4.70 - which in my opinion was too dear- 21% of which went to Revenue as it was toasted but that's irrelevant.

As for an example of bad attitude all I pointed out was the incorrect facts being stated - is there a problem with that? I contributed a hugh amount to local football teams, hosted charity events, etc so when someone calls me a complete shill (whatever that is) I have every right to defend myself. Don't hold that up as an example of bad attitute - if that is the case you are a very senstive person.

niceirishfella wrote: »

Well midlandsbase,
At least you have a life now. I know someone with one of these franchises and they are working 18 hours a day at it, and weekends. There's more to life.
200k down - sorry to hear of your hassles too.

I am glad to be rid of it. it was 18 hours a day for 7 days a week but I've put it behind me. I'll get over the loss and try my hand at another venture. As I stated before I think I'll write a book somewhere along the lines of Franchisee Beware.

TheZohan wrote: »

Per kWh.

And? The ESB business costs were still 12,000 for the year - the vast amount still made up of Phase 3 electricity - and a connection that cost in the region of €5,000 to set up. So still dearer than any normal residence I am
aware of.

Amalgam wrote: »

Midlandsbase, I think the problem is the attitude\negative interaction would not have come from or through you, as a manager, it would have come from jaded or just downright disgruntled staff. Something that might not always have taken place with you around.

I found the quality of O'Briens to vary greatly, I enjoyed the food out at a Santry branch, yet it was awful at the Airport food court.. and you could not get more miserable looking staff, at the Airport.

The same for the center of Dublin, very bubbly friendly staff in one branch, awful in the next, along with stale butter and hard cornered cheese to finish off the experience.

At least you're honest that you would have 'something to say' about the set up.

I absolutely agree with you. The one at the airport, for example, is run by a catering company which run all the fast food places in the airport - no private individual can run one in airports so the attitutde of staff leaves alot to be desired.

I do have alot of things I could say about HQ and their dismissive attitutudes to concerns we had but which we had no control over.

I'm sorry if I have come across as dismissive of people - it wasnt my intention. I accept there are quality issues with stores and it used to annoy our business as it affected us as well. We had only one shop so I would be there from 7.30 until 7pm every day for 6 days a week but at least I could keep an eye on standards, attitutudes, etc. It is the stores where the owner has several is where standards really drop - it becomes a cost centre to them rather than a shop unit.

I think I'll bow out of this thread. I have alot of say about how this operation was run, what I have seen privately between HQ and the franchisees, the recklessness they have done with our 9% contribution and their downright incomptency. I apologise if this came across as attacking members expressing their views on quality. I guess when I and my wife put so much time and effort into our store and ensure the standards were kept up all the time it's easy to become defensive!

All the best.

Dob74 wrote: »

Sorry to see your business in trouble.
Can I ask you, why where your costs so high, rent? rates? wages? insurance?

rent was excessive. When we closed up the landlord reduced the rent by 50% but was too late for us. Up to then he refused to negotiate along with O'Briens.

rates were 3,000 which was ok.

Wages were high - I was paid 4€ a hour - staff were paid 9.09 an hour so wages were high - about 80,000 for the year. Insurance was ok.

So the biggest factor for us was rent but it's a long, long story.

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

I can now understand why ou would charge €1 to toast a slice of bread.

But Subway dont (they absorb the 21.5% vat for hot products) so O'briens never reacted to that so I can quite understand people's reaction to a €1 extra to toast a sandwich. O'Briens took the money during the good times and were driven by the successfull (overpriced) shops in the shopping centres whilst the rest of us thought we'd get by. There are rumours that 9 more will close before long - some deservedly so whilst a few really put everything into it and ran a good shop. I haven't stepped inside an O'Briens in months - too many memories - so I can't comment on what things are like now.

bokspring71 wrote: »

If they close another 9 branches, will HO be responsible for their rents too if they can't find someone else to rent the shop? How can they hope to survive with franchisees t/o down, some unable to pay rent, their ongoing and increasing liabilities in the UK (which the irish HO appears to have guaranteed), and with them currently paying €450k per annum on rent for units form which they get no return whatever?

It's not looking good for them if the figure of €450 000 per annum keeps increasing as branches close, and as HO has to accept the double whammy of getting no income from a defunkt store, while also having to add that stores rent to the HO monthly bills. Ouch!

Yes - if the 9 stores' head lease are held by O'Bs then they end up paying the rent. From information I have been told all the franchisees have been told to go from a sub-lease to a head lease. They will all resist this. The best option for the existing franchisees is that the business goes into liquidation - that way they can negotiate a best rental with the landlord on a new lease. What the examinership is involved with at the moment is seeing a away of getting out of leases for shops that have closed (one off payment perhaps) but I would not be surprised if the business is wound up before the year is out. But even if the franchisee agreed to take on the head lease the landlord may not want that - they loose the convenant of having an O'Briens (for what it's worth) on their portfolio so not a done deal by any stretch of the imagination.

Midlandsbase wrote: »

plenty of reasons why you can't go it alone but primary ones are O'Briens have the head lease so you can't just decide to close and re-open as something else. Secondly, you sign a franchise agreement contract which prohibits you doing this anyway - it cost one franchisee €500,000 in court costs, etc when she attempted this in the Harold's Cross shop awhile back.

I think it's quite safe to say that the O' Briens brand will soon be no more, which will render any franchise agreement redundant (if it's not already given the situation HO is in). I'd imagine most franchisees will then be in a situation to negotiate a lease on their terms.

Sorry to hear about your situation Midlandsbase. Live and learn, eh.


Does anybody know a Subway franchisee and/or how well they are doing? They'd clearly have a lot less costs, but not sure they'd be in a much better position judging by the stores I've come across..

I read some figures in the paper re: O'Briens at the weekend, and I was fairly surprised by them. Apparently while their turnover was in the hundreds of millions, their profit was only a few million, so margins were obviously pretty tight so any downturn was going to hit them hard.

The O'Briens in Limerick city closed and re-opened as a new sandwich shop there a couple of months back. It was practically the exact same but without O'Briens branding. How were they able to swing that one?