Dubs overhyped

Nalced_irl · 30-06-2009 07:32PM

baztard wrote: »

Matt Cooper on TV3 giving a synopsis before an ad break, after the Dublin v. Westmeath match finished...

"Dublin have beaten Westmeath, but are they good enough to win the All Ireland"

Eh you forgot about the Leinster final there Matt, and the AI backdoor, quarter and semi finals... hype hype hype!!!

I've noticed the only people who really over hype the dubs are the dub newspapers and the rag newspapers (Evening Herarld, Sun etc) and the mass of bandwagon supporters that get going around this time of year.

The real fans know the true potential of the team I'm sure. Which at this stage is impossible to tell.

In fairness i think they were saying the opposite. After a big victory, the obvious question is "have they announced themselves as AI contenders?". The general view of the panel was no. After a match like that you obviously cant say that they have. Also they werent forgetting the Leinster final etc, they were merely asking if Dublin are strong enough to get through them and get to/win the AI final. At this stage, most of the top teams are running in a lower gear. Once the provincials are out of the way, they move up and thats the time you start to see who can or cant go all the way. Can Dublin lift it enough after the provincials? Not impossible but very improbable. I think it will take one more year before Gilroy has his team\tactics fully decided and maybe then we can start hoping for more.

Drummerboy2 · 30-06-2009 07:45PM

Pride Fighter wrote: »

Dont forget that Kildare, Westmeath and Laois have also reached the quarter finals in the last 4 or 5 years too. The three you mentioned plus the three I mentioned is 6 counties out of 11, over half of Leinster have reached at least a quarter final in the past few years. Have over half of Munster done this? Half of Connacht? Ulster has. So my original point that Leinster is the second best province seems to stand true, even though the All Ireland well has dried up a bit.

premierstone wrote: »

Never ever have I stated this please stick to the facts. Two Munster teams have a chance of winning sam and as you conceeded yourself thats two more than Leinster.

You say you cant remeber the last time Cork won anything? Who are the Munster champions? If Leinster football is stronger than Munster and Dublin have 4 in a row titles do you believe that Dublin would win 4 in a row in Munster or Connacht for that matter.

You seem to be takin this as a dig at Dublin its not, its not Dublins fault that they are in an uncompetitive provincial set-up and if anything it is holding back their development significantly imo, take for example the likes of the new FB (basstick or something sorry not sure) and the Corner Back who made he's debut last sunday and Davoren before he's injury these guys end up in an AI quarter Final and they have never played in a competive championship match next thing there playing a Cork/Kerry/Mayo/Galway/Tyrone/Derry team who have come through the qualifiers and had a competitive game in their province.

Gilroy has the makingss of a really nice panel there at the moment but as I said they will arrive at an AI quarter final having played nothing more than friendlies, which is fine if you have a settled experienced team but not when you are trying to mould a new team like Gilroy needed to do.

Apoligies on the 3rd Munster team winning, that was another poster who stated that. I wasn't counting provincial championships when I was referring to Cork. I'm not deluded about Dublin, think they are goood enough for a semi-final, anything else would be a bonus at this stage. However I don't think the general standard of in Leinster is any worse than Munster or Connacht.

I think Munster people get carried away. They keep claiming how good their hurling championshp is, and it is competitive, yet Kilkenny leather them every year. And well we won't mention the rugby.

yerayeah · 30-06-2009 09:42PM

Drummerboy2 wrote: »

You are taking the piss now! Kerry obviously, Cork possibly but where you get a third team from I don't know. Laughable. People also forget Wexford got to a semifinal last year. Dublin were beaten by the eventual winners in the quarterfinal.

Tyrone being the 3rd team. Read my post again. And I would say Kerry are the distand 3rd of the 3.

corny · 30-06-2009 10:06PM

yerayeah wrote: »

Tyrone being the 3rd team. Read my post again. And I would say Kerry are the distand 3rd of the 3.

Think you'll find Kerry fronting up when it matters like always.

To say a team thats been in the last 5 All Ireland finals and 7 finals this decade is a distance behind anyone is a stretch it has to be said.

yerayeah · 30-06-2009 10:30PM

corny wrote: »

Think you'll find Kerry fronting up when it matters like always.

To say a team thats been in the last 5 All Ireland finals and 7 finals this decade is a distance behind anyone is a stretch it has to be said.

I'm from Kerry and I don't see where the inspiration a la Gooch in 02 and Donaghy in 2006, to change the year around is coming from. That said I think we're good enough to beat anyone except Cork or Tyrone who I think have pulled ahead from the pack this year...

I'd be delighted if your correct about Kerry turning things around but I don't see it happening this year!

Lemlin · 01-07-2009 08:13AM

K-9 wrote: »

It was Armagh.

A League system would favour the top counties even more. Usually, the 2 top teams will come through, especially if this is a Championship replacement.

I think the Qualifiers is a good balance between the two, though it could be tweaked. You can still get your shocks, like Donegal in the Championship and the Qualifiers like Wexford last year. 18 teams of the top of my head have got to Q/F's this decade, teams like Fermanagh and Sligo.

But what good is getting to a quarter final? They only get to the quarter finals because that's where the top teams really come into it again after the qualifiers. The semis is then what sorts out whateverb small chaff is left that snuck through the quarters.

premierstone · 01-07-2009 11:04AM

corny wrote: »

The Leinster and Ulster championships are the only championships that mean anything in the first place.

Sorry not letting this slide what are you talking about, seriously Id love to know where you came up with this pearl of wisdom.

corny · 01-07-2009 03:10PM

premierstone wrote: »

Sorry not letting this slide what are you talking about, seriously Id love to know where you came up with this pearl of wisdom.

You mentioned the 'uncompetitive provincial set-up' in Leinster. I'm simply telling you playing one game every year to be Munster champions is hardly a competitive set-up by contrast. Your example.

Even at that Cork beat an uninterested Kerry (they won't be like that when it matters) this year in Munster. So they'll be Munster champions without being tested. Is that a huge difference to the position Dublin are in? You tell me.

premierstone · 01-07-2009 03:19PM

No no Corny dont backtrack you clearly said that the Munster championship and the Connacht championship are less important than the Leinster championship and I've asked you to explain the rationale behind such a foolish statement - so in your own good time please explain to all the Mayo, Galway, Roscommon, Sligo, Leitrim, Kerry, Cork, Clare, etc. counties that their provincail titles are in the eyes of Corny meaningless :rolleyes:

cruiserweight · 01-07-2009 03:24PM

Different people are using different definitions here to suit themselves. Some people are taking competitive to mean that any of a number of teams can realistically win their provincial championship each year. Some people are taking comptetitive to mean that teams from that province can realistically win the All Ireland. Either way winning any provincial championship or All Ireland championship is an achievement

premierstone · 01-07-2009 03:33PM

cruiserweight wrote: »

Different people are using different definitions here to suit themselves. Some people are taking competitive to mean that any of a number of teams can realistically win their provincial championship each year. Some people are taking comptetitive to mean that teams from that province can realistically win the All Ireland. Either way winning any provincial championship or All Ireland championship is an achievement

Agreed cuiserweight, but to me to break it down to its simplest ask yourself this -When was the last time there was a game of football in the Leinster championship of real quailty (from both teams)? Off the top of my head I cant recall it, there has been very impressive displays from Dublin, many exciting games, heroic underdog victories etc. but games of real quality are few and far between.

AMixedBag · 01-07-2009 03:42PM

corny wrote: »

You mentioned the 'uncompetitive provincial set-up' in Leinster. I'm simply telling you playing one game every year to be Munster champions is hardly a competitive set-up by contrast. Your example.

Well don't blame us, blame the muppet that seperated Munster into 6 counties..

corny · 01-07-2009 04:12PM

premierstone wrote: »

No no Corny dont backtrack you clearly said that the Munster championship and the Connacht championship are less important than the Leinster championship and I've asked you to explain the rationale behind such a foolish statement - so in your own good time please explain to all the Mayo, Galway, Roscommon, Sligo, Leitrim, Kerry, Cork, Clare, etc. counties that their provincail titles are in the eyes of Corny meaningless :rolleyes:

Who's back tracking? You don't accept what i'm saying thats your business.

I've already done my best to undermine the Munster 'one game' Championship. It is almost meaningless. It always has been. It's a derby game between Cork and Kerry not a 'competitive' championship. This year even Kerry did it a disservice by not turning up because here and now i guarantee you if they meet Cork when it matters they'll turn them over like always. Where does that leave the Munster championship if i'm right. Cork winning by default?

premierstone · 01-07-2009 04:31PM

corny wrote: »

Who's back tracking? You don't accept what i'm saying thats your business.

I've already done my best to undermine the Munster 'one game' Championship. It is almost meaningless. It always has been. It's a derby game between Cork and Kerry not a 'competitive' championship. This year even Kerry did it a disservice by not turning up because here and now i guarantee you if they meet Cork when it matters they'll turn them over like always. Where does that leave the Munster championship if i'm right. Cork winning by default?

As apposed to what Corny - Dublin winning Leinstrer because the rest of the teams are completely sub-standard and wouldnt make a provincial final in any other province, just because there are a greater number of teams does not make a championship more competitive or more difficult to win.

Dont agree on your evaluation of Cork either they beat Kerry fair and square and were the better team, and if they do meet again I'll gladly have a bet with you - the odds you'll be given will be generous i'm sure considering how certain you are.

LeoB · 01-07-2009 04:47PM

premierstone wrote: »

omg I refuse to discuss football with anyone who doesnt realise that leinster football is the weakest by a distance.

This however is not Dublins fault and they are streets ahead of the rest but can anyone honestly come on here and tell me that they would have won 3 or 4 consecutive provincial titles in any other province when Kerry, Tyrone and Galway cant do it in their respective provinces

Just accept other people views. What I stated is my view. Before last Sunday most people thought Dublin, Laois, Kildare and Westmeath were decent sides, competitive to the point where any one of them could have won leinster title. I dont think many observers forecast the results that we got. I thought Laois could beat Kildare and Westmeath would give Dublin a good rattle.

Galway, Mayo, Cork and Kerry are streets ahead of anything in their province when they play at full tilt. Kerry and Cork probably can hold back 6 to 8 weeks on their training because unless they are drawn together they will reach the Munster 9 out of 10 times. Dublin dont have that luxury as the counties I mentioned already plus Meath and Wexford all have a decent chance of Reaching Leinster Final.
The connacht race is as weak as munster. Cork or Kerry at full pace would blow away anyone else in Munster and despite Sligo coming close last week Galway and Mayo would do the same. Ulster is very competitive but has been stated before a lot of their games are dogfights and not very nice to watch.
So Premierstone I think Leinster is stronger than the other 3 provinces. Just my opinion I will discuss it further, if time permits

Orizio · 01-07-2009 04:50PM

I don't know how you can think that Leo, there is two good teams in Leinster, Munster apparently has two of the All-Ireland contenders while Ulster has a high spread of quality throughout.

corny · 01-07-2009 05:01PM

premierstone wrote: »

As apposed to what Corny - Dublin winning Leinstrer because the rest of the teams are completely sub-standard and wouldnt make a provincial final in any other province, just because there are a greater number of teams does not make a championship more competitive or more difficult to win.

Dont agree on your evaluation of Cork either they beat Kerry fair and square and were the better team, and if they do meet again I'll gladly have a bet with you - the odds you'll be given will be generous i'm sure considering how certain you are.

As opposed to it doesn't matter. YOU made the distinction in the first place. There isn't a distinction to be made is my point because Munster is and always has been uncompetitive. Its just one game. At least in the historical sense the Leinster championship hasn't been a procession most years.

Every time this decade Kerry have lost in Munster they've made the All Ireland final, sometimes at Corks expense. They lost the Munster final by more in 06 and then won the All Ireland. They will do the same this year and only Tyrone can stop them IMO. But time will tell.

Orizio · 01-07-2009 05:19PM

corny wrote: »

As opposed to it doesn't matter. YOU made the distinction in the first place. There isn't a distinction to be made is my point because Munster is and always has been uncompetitive. Its just one game. At least in the historical sense the Leinster championship hasn't been a procession most years.

Every time this decade Kerry have lost in Munster they've made the All Ireland final, sometimes at Corks expense. They lost the Munster final by more in 06 and then won the All Ireland. They will do the same this year and only Tyrone can stop them IMO. But time will tell.

Have you been to any recent Cork/Limerick matches?

Leinster is completely uncompetitive right now as well, even more so then Munster.

LeoB · 01-07-2009 07:02PM

Orizio wrote: »

Have you been to any recent Cork/Limerick matches?

Leinster is completely uncompetitive right now as well, even more so then Munster.

I actually think Cork are miles ahead of Limerick but I could be proved wrong. As I see it Cork are planning for later in the year as are Dublin which is a gamble. Why peak for the Kerry match? Win and yet lose your momentum.

There are Laois, Kildare, Wexford, Meath and Westmeath are all competitive well up to last week end they were. Tipp, Waterford, Clare Roscommon, Leitrim Cavan, Antrim, Donegal and now it seems Fermanagh are a step behind the Leinster counties. Louth, Wicklow, Offaly etc are a futher step behind. So that is where I base my view.

Remember I did say earlier Orizio in another thread Cork are in the Top 3 sides in the Country. Counihan has done a good job.

corny · 01-07-2009 07:29PM

Orizio wrote: »

Have you been to any recent Cork/Limerick matches?

Leinster is completely uncompetitive right now as well, even more so then Munster.

No but I've a better question. When was the last time Limerick were Munster champions?

1896 was the last time. Stiff competition? I don't think so.

jank · 03-07-2009 05:48AM

Some of ye guys are forgeting how strong hurling is in Munster.

And by the way they beat the crap out of kerry this year, when was the last time dublin beat kerry, was it the 80's?

blackbelt · 03-07-2009 12:06PM

jank wrote: »

Some of ye guys are forgeting how strong hurling is in Munster.

And by the way they beat the crap out of kerry this year, when was the last time dublin beat kerry, was it the 80's?

1977 the great semi-final that year.

Kerry and Dublin haven't met in the championship too much since then so I wouldn't crow about when the last time Dublin beat them.Cork face Kerry between 2 and 4 times a year.That takes into account Munster and All Ireland series meetings with the possibility of replays and thats since the introduction of the qualifiers.Cork have never beaten Kerry in the All Ireland Championship series.

Your point has no real substance.

Stealdo · 03-07-2009 01:43PM

blackbelt wrote: »

Your point has no real substance.

It has as much substance as when the last time Cork beat Dublin in the Championship was.....now let me see......

yerayeah · 03-07-2009 02:18PM

jank wrote: »

Some of ye guys are forgeting how strong hurling is in Munster.

And by the way they beat the crap out of kerry this year, when was the last time dublin beat kerry, was it the 80's?

Bearing in mind I'm from Kerry and might not know what I'm talking about (:pac:) but I would have considered Munster hurling to be competitive rather than strong...

Lemlin · 03-07-2009 02:30PM

blackbelt wrote: »

1977 the great semi-final that year.

Kerry and Dublin haven't met in the championship too much since then so I wouldn't crow about when the last time Dublin beat them.Cork face Kerry between 2 and 4 times a year.That takes into account Munster and All Ireland series meetings with the possibility of replays and thats since the introduction of the qualifiers.Cork have never beaten Kerry in the All Ireland Championship series.

Your point has no real substance.

Kerry and Dublin met in the '79, '84 and '85 finals. All of which Kerry won.

Dublin also met them in 2001 and in 2007. Not sure about 90s meetings between the two but they have met more than a few times since '77.

Stealdo · 03-07-2009 04:34PM

Lemlin wrote: »

Kerry and Dublin met in the '79, '84 and '85 finals. All of which Kerry won.

Dublin also met them in 2001 and in 2007. Not sure about 90s meetings between the two but they have met more than a few times since '77.

Question was when was the last time Dublin beat Kerry. And they didn't meet each other in the Championship in the 90's.

Edit - Ah - you're referring to the 'they haven't met much'

dcr22B · 03-07-2009 04:37PM

Unfortunately, they also beat us in the 1978 final! :mad:

Het-Field · 03-07-2009 05:40PM

Stealdo wrote: »

Question was when was the last time Dublin beat Kerry. And they didn't meet each other in the Championship in the 90's.

Edit - Ah - you're referring to the 'they haven't met much'

Interesting.

Wasnt the 1990s the time when Dublin competed in 3 All Ireland Finals, won one, and two league titles, and a raft of Leinsters (when it WAS undisputably the most competitve province in the country).

At that time I recall the likes of Clare winning Munster titles. Something tells me the legacy could be quite different if they met between 1990-1995.

soundsham · 03-07-2009 06:14PM

answer to the post is always overhyped
even the 20,000 that are too lazy to be on time usually

Dubs overhyped

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