A discussion on the rules.

conchubhar1 · 02-07-2009 12:13PM

exactly no one is going to go into a thread about the eu commission and be like

''is maith liom é......srl......srl.....srl...''
''i like it......etc.........etc.........etc....''

oscarBravo · 02-07-2009 12:33PM

P. Breathnach wrote: »

OB, I think you are being a little too rigid on this.

I make a distinction between rules and laws. A rule is generally applicable, and a law is always applicable. I suggest that posting in English be treated as a rule, and that using words, phrases, or even whole sentences in other languages be tolerated in appropriate contexts (like threads discussing the use of Irish) so long as the poster uses English as the main vehicle for communication.

I generally let those slide - they are potentially exclusionary, while not necessarily being too disruptive.

I will note that this discussion arose from a comment I made on a recent thread, which included some posts entirely in Irish. Such posts tend to prompt side conversations in Irish, which go against the grain of the forum.

For the avoidance of doubt, I have no trouble reading and understanding posts in Irish.

As to any concerns about moderating, we have the facility to report posts. If somebody posted something inappropriate in Irish, there are a number of people around who could report it and explain what the problem was.

True, but it's only part of the issue. This forum has at least one moderator who isn't Irish and doesn't understand any Irish at all. Posting in Irish restricts the ability of the moderator team to work effectively.

[On the point of inhibiting discussion, I observe that there are posts here in what appears to be English, but which I find incomprehensible.]

You and me both.

oscarBravo · 02-07-2009 12:34PM

conchubhar1 wrote: »

i asked whether you would delete, edit or leave the post alone

P. Breathnach wrote: »

OB, I think you are being a little too rigid on this.

Just to add: I'm not being rigid on this. conchubhar1 is trying to nail me down to a rigid position, which I'm consciously avoiding.

conchubhar1 · 02-07-2009 12:55PM

i am asking in general if it is an irish related topic - could i post in irish and english without it being deleted or edited?

yes or no? so i know whether to bother

oscarBravo · 02-07-2009 01:09PM

I've answered the question as specifically as I'm going to.

conchubhar1 · 02-07-2009 01:11PM

so you wont give me an answer. i will therefore continue as if and continue to post as the thread dicatates

oscarBravo · 02-07-2009 01:21PM

conchubhar1 wrote: »

so you wont give me an answer.

I've given you an answer.

To illustrate my point: the charter forbids insulting other posters. It doesn't contain a list of words and phrases that are considered insulting - that's a judgement call on the part of the moderators.

Equally, I've explained why posting in Irish can be a problem, and I'll continue to make judgement calls as I see fit.

i will therefore continue as if and continue to post as the thread dicatates

I have no idea what that sentence means.

turgon · 02-07-2009 01:29PM

conchubhar1 wrote: »

could i post in irish and english without it being deleted or edited?

What would be the point?

Also, who says people will offer a correct translation? You might say in English "good point" while your Irish is calling me a gob****e. I am not fluent in Irish and would not understand.

I dont see what peoples issue with Boards being an English language website is. Its is .ie, but we all know that 99.999999% of Irish people speak English whereas a minority speak Irish. So the logic is to have it in English.

So why would you want to post in Irish, other than to intentionally mislead the non-Irish speaking majority?

conchubhar1 · 02-07-2009 01:42PM

i would not intentionally or otherwise mislead anyone.

as to what the point would be - i think that is obvious.

oB - it means that if another thread comes up and i feel irish would be understood and wanted in that particular thread
i will post in that thread bilingualy - as you have not given me an answer

turgon · 02-07-2009 01:48PM

conchubhar1 wrote: »

as to what the point would be - i think that is obvious.

Not to me?

conchubhar1 · 02-07-2009 01:51PM

becuase irish is the language i use - and want to use (as do others - hence i wouldnt be chatting to meself)

turgon · 02-07-2009 02:07PM

conchubhar1 wrote: »

becuase irish is the language i use - and want to use (as do others - hence i wouldnt be chatting to meself)

By that standard can I invite my polish neighbours to all set up Boards accounts and talk about Politics in Polish?

conchubhar1 · 02-07-2009 02:10PM

is this boards.pl?
is polish the national language of ireland?
dont be silly?

P. Breathnach · 02-07-2009 02:11PM

turgon wrote: »

... So why would you want to post in Irish, other than to intentionally mislead the non-Irish speaking majority?

I have posted in Irish, and had no intention of misleading anybody (something that is not always true of some who post in English).

I did it to affirm the validity of the language as a means of communication and I did it in a discussion on the use of Irish. And I also did it to rattle the bars of conchubhar's cage.

conchubhar1 · 02-07-2009 02:12PM

P. Breathnach wrote: »

And I also did it to rattle the bars of conchubhar's cage.

:):) what?

rattle my cage - i liked the fact you used irish, gave me an excuse to use it

without getting banned!

turgon · 02-07-2009 02:19PM

conchubhar1 wrote: »

is this boards.pl?
is polish the national language of ireland?
dont be silly?

So your being an idealist. Im being a pragmatist.

P. Breathnach · 02-07-2009 02:30PM

conchubhar1 wrote: »

... i liked the fact you used irish, gave me an excuse to use it

without getting banned!

A chonchubhair, a chara,

You were naughty to use Irish. Don't try to transfer the blame to me. ["But, but, but, Sir -- he started it."]

conchubhar1 · 02-07-2009 02:35PM

not transfering blame - its just if i started using it it would almost definitely have resulted in a ban.....

a breithneicha (oh is that how it is spelt?)

conchubhar1 · 02-07-2009 02:36PM

turgon wrote: »

So your being an idealist. Im being a pragmatist.

indeed

turgon · 02-07-2009 02:54PM

Care to expand upon what your meaning of "pr" is?

I put it into the acronym finder and got 163 results so Im slightly puzzled.

conchubhar1 · 02-07-2009 03:01PM

it means your just being silly - this is ireland.

drag any other language in you want - you are still being silly if you do tho.

oscarBravo · 02-07-2009 03:10PM

conchubhar1 wrote: »

oB - it means that if another thread comes up and i feel irish would be understood and wanted in that particular thread
i will post in that thread bilingualy - as you have not given me an answer

I'd rather you didn't. If you want to discuss political topics in Irish, there are at least two forums on this site where it is appropriate for you to do so. If the topic of a thread is the Irish language, it's entirely likely that one of those forums is an appropriate venue for it anyway.

If you post bi-lingually, you'll be inviting others to reply in Irish, which they will, which goes against the grain of the rule I'm espousing here.

You're trying to push me into a hard-and-fast rule on whether or not posting in Irish will be tolerated at all. I don't want to be pushed into that. I think I've made my position sufficiently clear.

turgon · 02-07-2009 03:13PM

conchubhar1 wrote: »

it means your just being silly - this is ireland.

And you have just proved what I was on about.

For all I know you called me a prick, and your "translation" was inaccurate. However I presumed it accurate.

Permabear · 02-07-2009 03:15PM

This post has been deleted.

nesf · 02-07-2009 03:24PM

conchubhar1 wrote: »

well its nice to know there has been bias here since at least 2007

so - less bias please?
as to language - can one post in irish if they provide a translation if one or more ask for it?

Conchubhar1, if you continue to complain about the moderation on this forum in this forum I will ban you. Please take it to the Help Desk where said complaints are meant to go.

Regarding Irish, the average person in this country cannot read it at a level that's conducive to political debate. I'm raising my son through Irish and am married to a native speaker of the language so believe me when I say I've no bias against the language, however; posts in this forum should be through English so that a) everyone can understand them and b) all the moderators (including one non-Irish moderator) can read them and understand them fully. Posting in Irish here is not allowed, please do so in Teach na nGealt which is a forum dedicated to discussion of topics through the medium of Irish.

turgon · 02-07-2009 04:26PM

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I think Ill give him the benefit of the doubt.

Dostoevsky · 03-07-2009 07:42PM

oscarBravo wrote: »

This forum has at least one moderator who isn't Irish and doesn't understand any Irish at all.

I get the distinct impression that the individual concerned is being used as the scapegoat for the prejudices of somebody else. I know of nobody who has arrived in Ireland and expects the Irish to stop speaking/writing in Irish just to facilitate their arrival.

Dostoevsky · 03-07-2009 07:54PM

nesf wrote: »

Conchubhar1, if you continue to complain about the moderation on this forum in this forum I will ban you. Please take it to the Help Desk where said complaints are meant to go.

Regarding Irish, the average person in this country cannot read it at a level that's conducive to political debate.

The "average person in this country" doesn't go near boards.ie. Should we therefore outlaw boards.ie?

"Posting in Irish is not allowed". What year is this: 1537? 1366? How dare you issue a diktat to an Irish person to not speak Irish in Ireland on a board which claims to be Irish. Ridiculously patronising.

Dostoevsky · 03-07-2009 08:01PM

turgon wrote: »

By that standard can I invite my polish neighbours to all set up Boards accounts and talk about Politics in Polish?

Is this Poland? Again, stop using some poor foreigners as the scapegoats for your own prejudices. Foreigners in Ireland, having mastered at least two languages, are usually more open to Irish language and culture than the average English-speaking monoglot in Ireland.

Sand · 03-07-2009 09:53PM

Ο σκοπός boards.ie είναι να συζητήσει και να επικοινωνήσει. Η ταχυδρόμηση σε μια γλώσσα που κανένας δεν μπορεί να καταλάβει είναι στην καλύτερη περίπτωση άχρηστη και στη χειρότερη περίπτωση σκόπιμα αποδιοργανωτικός εκείνου του στόχου.

Think that should explain why posting in Irish (or any other language other than the vernacular) is not helpful.

But yeah, fight the power!

A discussion on the rules.

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