Chrono'd over 1 joule?!?!?!? How?

pokermonkey · 20-06-2009 10:28PM #1

Was out in Rebarn today with my CA8-2, went to get it chrono'd and low and behold it was consistantly chrono-ing (is that a word) at around 1.2 joules.
A bit odd as i've only skirmished it once before and it was under 1 joule that time.
Haven't changed a singly thing on the gun, and have only fired about 100 rounds since the last time i skirmished.
The lads up in redbarn rightly didn't allow the gun out, but can anyone come up with a reasonable explanation why it has gone up - a bit of a pain in the rear for me now as i obviously have to get it it fixed! :mad:
Will be heading back to the retailer to get him to fix - but i've never heard of power going up before.

Toasty113 · 20-06-2009 10:31PM

Did you change the hop up by any chance? And did you get it chrono'd at the same site before?

Witcher · 20-06-2009 10:32PM

pokermonkey wrote: »

Was out in Rebarn today with my CA8-2, went to get it chrono'd and low and behold it was consistantly chrono-ing (is that a word) at around 1.2 joules.
A bit odd as i've only skirmished it once before and it was under 1 joule that time.
Haven't changed a singly thing on the gun, and have only fired about 100 rounds since the last time i skirmished.
The lads up in redbarn rightly didn't allow the gun out, but can anyone come up with a reasonable explanation why it has gone up - a bit of a pain in the rear for me now as i obviously have to get it it fixed! :mad:
Will be heading back to the retailer to get him to fix - but i've never heard of power going up before.

Could be weather affecting it, weather and evironmental factors influence the chronoing of guns greatly, at the gathering 1 several people were over the limit even though the guns were sub 1J when they last used them. Humidity, air pressure etc affects it. How close was it to the limit the last time you chronoed it? Should always stay about 310 then you leave allowance for a small increase due to waether conditions.

Hivemind187 · 20-06-2009 10:35PM

1) It may not have been chronoed properly the first time. there are dozens of things that the tester can do to faff it up.

2) The atmospheric conditions may have been radically different. this can cause wild readings due to sunlight contamination, ambient temperature, whether there is wind blowing through the chrono.

3) The test was done with a heavier or lighter BB causing a change in the result.

4) The original test may have been done with the hop swtiched on somewhat, this can have a huge effect on power in some guns.

5) Gremlins.

6) Slightly larger gremlins.

pokermonkey · 20-06-2009 10:42PM

yeah, it was chronoed there last time too. it was a little cooler and a little damper from memory. came in at 0.92 joules the last time i think. bb's were .20's both times.
it was coming in at around 1.15 - 1.2 joules with and without hop up on.
pretty big jump though i thought.
hope its not caput!!

pokermonkey · 20-06-2009 10:43PM

Hivemind187 wrote: »

5) Gremlins.

6) Slightly larger gremlins.

LOL, gremlins.... big gremlins!

NakedDex · 20-06-2009 10:44PM

Did you see the previous test being done? Did it seem like anything was different to this time. Even the lighting in a room can change the result if done incorrectly. Where was it chrono'd previously?

Witcher · 20-06-2009 10:47PM

pokermonkey wrote: »

yeah, it was chronoed there last time too. it was a little cooler and a little damper from memory. came in at 0.92 joules the last time i think. bb's were .20's both times.
it was coming in at around 1.15 - 1.2 joules with and without hop up on.
pretty big jump though i thought.
hope its not caput!!

Yeah thats a pretty big jump, not sure by how much the weather affected the guns in Galway, mght need a spring change to be on the safe side, the retailer should do it for free afaik.

Firekitten · 20-06-2009 10:48PM

How can it be caput, if its firing at 1.2 jules? erm.... isnt that the definition of WORKING?

a few posibilities...

Is there any chance, the first crono wasnt calibrated right? or THIS one wasnt?

The number of different readings my guns get is stupid...
Eliana my L96a1 for example...
My crono... calibrated... 495fps...
SYA crono: 450fps
F&O crono: 420fps
The fort crono: 370fps...
SYA again: 503fps...

These things change like crazy... id get them to check thier kit... guns dont magically go up and down in fps without a definate mechanical change to the operation.

And as for weather... ive really never seen a 30+ fps change EVER.... 5-10 yes... anyway, why dont Irish sites have a +-5 percent to account for crono and weather issues? Its used all over the uk to great effect...

pokermonkey · 20-06-2009 10:53PM

hmm, not sure if he has the expertise tbh, but will try all the same.
maybe he'll shout me a new one.... ha, unlikely!
i have the law on my side though!:D
just dissappointed though. really like the gun, and now i can't use it!

sorry - just having a bit of a rant.

pokermonkey · 20-06-2009 10:56PM

Firekitten wrote: »

How can it be caput, if its firing at 1.2 jules? erm.... isnt that the definition of WORKING?

a few posibilities...

Is there any chance, the first crono wasnt calibrated right? or THIS one wasnt?

The number of different readings my guns get is stupid...
Eliana my L96a1 for example...
My crono... calibrated... 495fps...
SYA crono: 450fps
F&O crono: 420fps
The fort crono: 370fps...
SYA again: 503fps...

These things change like crazy... id get them to check thier kit... guns dont magically go up and down in fps without a definate mechanical change to the operation.

And as for weather... ive really never seen a 30+ fps change EVER.... 5-10 yes... anyway, why dont Irish sites have a +-5 percent to account for crono and weather issues? Its used all over the uk to great effect...

in fairness to the lads, they chronoed it on 2 chrono's which were coming up with the same result. its definitly the gun unfortunatly.

i thought it might be caput, cause one of the guys said either the hop-up may be damaged, or some cylinder may have expanded or something (please excuse my over technical analogy there ahem)

Hivemind187 · 20-06-2009 11:20PM

Firekitten wrote: »

And as for weather... ive really never seen a 30+ fps change EVER.... 5-10 yes... anyway, why dont Irish sites have a +-5 percent to account for crono and weather issues? Its used all over the uk to great effect...

Because there is no allowance for it in the law unfortunately. We dont choose 1 joule across the board happily, its simply that anything above this, according to the letter of the law, is a firearm.

Shiva · 20-06-2009 11:32PM

pokermonkey wrote: »

i thought it might be caput, cause one of the guys said either the hop-up may be damaged, or some cylinder may have expanded or something (please excuse my over technical analogy there ahem)

Sorry if this sounds a bit harsh....I'm not having a go at you, but just offering a little advice. You mentioned in a previous post that the "law was on your side". I wouldnt go into the retailer with an attitude, if I were you.

It already chronoed legal when you first used it, so its not like he sold you something hot deliberately, or through negligence. Just tell him what happened, and if its who I think it is, he'll look after you. But dont go waving your arms and quoting the law - it doesnt sound like he deserves that kind of thing

pokermonkey · 20-06-2009 11:37PM

Shiva wrote: »

Sorry if this sounds a bit harsh....I'm not having a go at you, but just offering a little advice. You mentioned in a previous post that the "law was on your side". I wouldnt go into the retailer with an attitude, if I were you.

It already chronoed legal when you first used it, so its not like he sold you something hot deliberately, or through negligence. Just tell him what happened, and if its who I think it is, he'll look after you. But dont go waving your arms and quoting the law - it doesnt sound like he deserves that kind of thing

completely agree. it was meant in jest. would never go into a retailer with that attitude. completely counterproductive.
But, if he told me to PFO, then i might bring it into the argument.:p

Evangelion · 21-06-2009 12:05AM

It could be as simple as one of the Chrono's needing calibration (do the sites have to do a regular Cal.?)

I was at Red Barn today too, and my Tavor chronoed at 0.96, same as my home one and the retailers, but I had another site Chono it at 0.84 yesterday

Firekitten · 21-06-2009 12:08AM

pokermonkey wrote: »

in fairness to the lads, they chronoed it on 2 chrono's which were coming up with the same result. its definitly the gun unfortunatly.

i thought it might be caput, cause one of the guys said either the hop-up may be damaged, or some cylinder may have expanded or something (please excuse my over technical analogy there ahem)

In 'fairness to the lads' WHICH of the two seperate times, did they crono it twice?

I didnt say both cronos were out... just that apparnely, one is, as you claim there is nothing changed on the gun. Ergo, it must be an outside factor.

Masada · 21-06-2009 12:37AM

was it new when it was first chrono'd?

if it was then its possible that te hopup has bedded in and when switched off it isnt protruding at all, when there new they tend to be on slightly even when the switch is off, the rubber needs to bed in.

its a hell of a jump in fps though, maybe 30fps or so on a .2g bb. could even be the conditions it was chrono'd in.

Hivemind187 · 21-06-2009 12:53AM

Masada wrote: »

was it new when it was first chrono'd?

if it was then its possible that te hopup has bedded in and when switched off it isnt protruding at all, when there new they tend to be on slightly even when the switch is off, the rubber needs to bed in.

its a hell of a jump in fps though, maybe 30fps or so on a .2g bb. could even be the conditions it was chrono'd in.

Or potentially a combination of things?

I'm erringo n the side of chrono technique though. Easiest way to get a high reading like that I have found.

desertstorm · 21-06-2009 02:36AM

i had an aeg range between 250 fps and 300 fps with .2g's, and as far as i can tell it was simply down to the first time it was in my boot on a really hot day a while back when i was going to a site and then the next time it had been stored in a cool room for a good few days?

Firekitten · 21-06-2009 08:13AM

depends... it could effect the liquid state of the grease in the gearbox... but i cant see it effecting air density or spring power in the same method... but my engineering isnt my strong point... i just know HOW they work not why to the same detail...

To the best of my knowlage, the heat issue effects gbbs more... (boy does it)

if you have a 50fps variance... thats some pretty low tollerance in parts :S id be quite bothered if my aeg was jumping around that wildly... (5fps bothers me)

TheDoc · 21-06-2009 09:36AM

Or maybe its just a case that it was a hot gun from the start?

From my experience with the Red Barn lads, as has been echoed by a number of people I talk to, their chrono is extremely accurate and their chrono'ing is done in a decently controlled enviroment. And they use two chronos to sometimes dispell " your chrono is ****ed mate".

I'm going to take this opportunity to say well done to site owners who I've visited in the last few months who are doing Chronoing properly. Makes me feel much better going onto a site knowing I do not have to contest with hot guns.

Even if there was a slacking tolerance, I wouldnt mind. If 340fps was allowed on a site I wouldnt care, to let those obscure occurancies in aeg's and chronoing in different conditions allowed on.

But there law is the law, and unfortunately in this country I've little faith in the honour system and no doubt everyone would set their gun for 340fps, then moaning that they should get allowance for 350fps.

If your serious about airsoft you should go attend a UK event or get some feedback. The last big event I was at was Phoenix Rising 3 where NO ONE GOT CHRONOGRAPHED before the game started. Everyone was giving the benefit of the doubt and it was a superb atmosphere to be in. You know your playing good honest players. Ironically alot of the irish lads got chronoed and the marshal lold when he saw the 260 or so fps they came in at.

Firekitten · 21-06-2009 10:22AM

We do get cronoed a lot here... you get the usual Skangers trying to get away with 20 fps more because they think it makes them better...

that or stock acm guns they dont know HOW to downgrade or dont know its hot...

pokermonkey · 21-06-2009 11:37AM

TheDoc wrote: »

From my experience with the Red Barn lads, as has been echoed by a number of people I talk to, their chrono is extremely accurate and their chrono'ing is done in a decently controlled enviroment. And they use two chronos to sometimes dispell " your chrono is ****ed mate".

I'm going to take this opportunity to say well done to site owners who I've visited in the last few months who are doing Chronoing properly. Makes me feel much better going onto a site knowing I do not have to contest with hot guns.

+1

i'm bringing back to the shop shortly. if we can get to the bottom of it i'll re-post.
thanks for the suggestions.

desertstorm · 21-06-2009 12:37PM

i was thinking the heat might have loosend up the spring, but i have noticed that aeg having it's up and down days between 260 and 300.. maybe something else is at work here

Hivemind187 · 21-06-2009 12:46PM

desertstorm wrote: »

i was thinking the heat might have loosend up the spring, but i have noticed that aeg having it's up and down days between 260 and 300.. maybe something else is at work here

Faulty air seal. Usual culprit for anything erratic in airsoft.

Firekitten · 21-06-2009 12:56PM

ptfe tape... win

Puding · 21-06-2009 12:59PM

if i have an aeg firing at a +/- 5fps either side would give be concern and i would be having a look at the gearbox or the barrel/hopup. i would be looking for a reason for such inconsistency

Firekitten · 21-06-2009 01:01PM

if we are talking about his.. yeah

but the uk +-5% thing is more to give space for little fps changes above the limit if your gun is at 328 normally... small thingsl ike crono inconsistancy etc.

Puding · 21-06-2009 01:09PM

ow i do not mean +/- 5 of the legal 1j limit, i mean +/-5 of the power im aiming for this is normally 310fps, unlike a large % of the irish airsoft market i do not see 1j as a target

normal go 310 to cover myself and i can normally out range with more accuracy someone shooting 325+ with the right hop up and barrel combo, just ask anyone at cork about the star l1a1 i built for my father

Firekitten · 21-06-2009 01:12PM

bingo...

FPS plays little in actual range or accuracy. it just helps it get there faster beyond 300.

I'll be selling my Vsr10 on here soon... only doing 320 but can put a bb out past the 70 mark in good conditions :P on a human size target :P

Stercus Accidit · 21-06-2009 04:55PM

310 ftw.

Chrono'd over 1 joule?!?!?!? How?

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