Explain non boxer outpunching Holyfield and Froch

Id say because the lads threw all their bodyweight behind theirs. They all threw right straightish haymakers. Evander threw a cross from gaurd position.

Boxers wouldnt wind back and throw a massive shot like that as youd get a stiff jab in the mush everytime or a counter of some description.

I watched that live and evander hit it with about 10% force, he deliberately did not want to look like he was trying hard, if he hit it hard the force would of been double the next best score.

joepenguin wrote: »

Id say because the lads threw all their bodyweight behind theirs. They all threw right straightish haymakers. Evander threw a cross from gaurd position.

Boxers wouldnt wind back and throw a massive shot like that as youd get a stiff jab in the mush everytime or a counter of some description.

Exactly, all those machines measure is someone's ability to run at something and hit it.
Holyfield hit 700+ from a STANDING position, no run up.

My view is simple. A non boxer could have a heavier punch than a boxer, but the technique and timing and rhythm and balance needed to deliver it is so
important, and this is where the experienced boxer will have an advantage

Also, in the example above, Holy didn't commit to the shot like the others. They gave it their all and that is part of the reason they scored higher.

If Holy really committed, plus got a wee run up, he would have beat them I am sure

Also, Holy's age will have deteriorated his punch, but even being older, he would still
be a heavier hitter than the other guys.

You are born with a punch and it's the training and dedication that perfects it I believe.
So, a non boxer could be blessed with power and even without the technique, he could do serious damage, and with the technique, he would be more lethal

What about someone like a javelin thrower? The list could go on. Boxers punch the way they do so they will be accurate, hit the target and protect their hands. I think Holyfield was just being humble throwing it from the gaurd.
How high do you think the lads would have scored if you took away their run.

I also think the Rock should have had a shot, the machine is there for a bit of craic.

Although interestingly the guy who went before Holy didnt take a run and scored the same pretty much.

Jeebus, you got it the first time. He hit a punch from a standing position while the others hit it as hard as they could with all their bodyweight and velocity behind them.
I suppose its similar to a the one where a guy walks on to your punch and it will hurt him where as if he is moving away from the exact same shot it won't hurt him nearly as much.

Its quite simple really.

pjbrady1 wrote: »

I wouldn't take anything from Rugby guys punching. I'm 13 stone.
I'd be confident I could have nearly as hard a straight right as Marcus Horan, Paul O'Connell. They might massively out weigh me, but I can throw a punch way faster than they can. Simple Physics. Power o the punch is proportional to the square of the speed (n how much weight you can transfer into it which they would have an advantage). Also they have overdeveloped pecs, shoulders n biceps.
All that extra mass really slows your punching down.
In my opinion a fair percentage of people actually throw a pretty reasonable straight right without much guidance.
Holyfield could punch harder, but from the video it looks like a massive hit is needed to put it above 950. He needs a fair enough improvement in speed to put it above 800. So I'm not sure he'd be head n shoulders above the others.
He might only be able to up the speed of his punch 10 - 15%. He was never the worlds fastest heavyweight.
Like you could make the valid case that Amir Khan can jab harder than guys much heavier than him due to his hand speed. The shot lands with such pace that it has way more force.

Whether the guy is a rugby player, an F1 driver, a sprinter, an accountant, a doctor etc has ZERO to do with it.

Paul O'Connell for example is a big big strong man who I am quite sure
could exert a lot of force if he connected with a cleanly thrown punch.

His sport has nothing to do with it. The sport that trains the punch is boxing, so boxers will have the advanatge of experience, training and technique over any normal joe soap; but it still does not mean that the boxer will always be hitting harder. Like I said, some folks are born with natural raw power

As mentioned, speed has a lot to do with the force a punch exerts, but remember, you also need the natural power. I am sure that I will throw a shot much faster than Bruno, but no way in hell will I exert the same force.

So, weight, speed, and natural power all play the part.
You may well throw a shot faster than the big men, but their extra weight
and possible natural power may even it out or even beat you

I have seen it in gyms many times, non boxers doin' a bit of training and they
have fairly powerful shots, with little in the way of great technique; just
naturally strong hitters!

Lads that was nothing more than a bitch slap from Evander and if you cant see that then god help you. He most likely would have broken the bloody thing had he wanted to.

shamblertine wrote: »

Come on how can you say Khan isn't powerful? He nearly took the heads off some of those guys he knocked out.

Powerful in his weight yes but not more powerful than vitali klitscho for example, im responding to someone who seems to believe that speed = power.
Look at the bit on Khan that I quoted and you'll see what im talking about, he's knocking the head off 9 1/2 stone fighters by the way

pjbrady1 wrote: »

Just to respond to Colly 10.
The main component of force in a punch is speed. Undeniable ................
Now get Amir Khan one of the fastest professional boxers in the game to throw a left jab. Khan will register almost as much force as Duddy on his left jab. The reason being the pure difference in speed.

So Khan is far far faster but not as powerful as the much slower Duddy yet the main component in power is speed

walshb wrote: »

Fellas fellas, speed is just ONE the factors, and an important one
too. But, two guys around the same weight who are fairly equal punchers will
be separated by the speed of the shot, generally but in the case of a light man and a heavy man, then speed may not be enough for the light man.

Khan has POP in his shots because he is so fast and because he does get
right into the shots, and he's a good digger naturally.

Hector Camacho for example was grease lightning, but had little POP, because he simply didn't possess good natural power

I think Khan's a bad example of speed resulting in power. More than one man he's faced have said he's very fast and accurate but not a strong puncher(Gomez and Barrera). If he could really punch he'd have been rocking Barrera around the place with all the clean shots he landed. Now he wasn't putting everything into those shots as he was petrified of getting countered but he still should of been having more effect.

Zab Judah and Pacquiao would be examples I'd have of speed(combined with technique) resulting in devastating power capable of hurting and knocking out much bigger men.

walshb wrote: »

Well, Graham Earl may disagree and
this guy below

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rbnTJcnn_M....45 secs into clip

The point is, whatever power Khan has, it is greatly due to the
delivery speed. I am not saying he hits like Hearns.

So, whatever power he does have is greatly influenced
by Khan's speed and more so than his actual natural power

vs. Barerra, Khan was cautious, picking the shots and not trying
to be overly aggressive with them. Hey, will all Khan's
opponents say he hits hard? No, some will not, but he does have POP
and the POP comes from his speed!

That's Henry 'I'm barely domestic title level' Castle doing pretty much the same thing.

At a World Class level Amir Khan is not a puncher, although he is phenomenally quick. Khan has fought one fighter that fought at the very top of the sport, one that fought at World level and one that fought at fringe World title level and they are the fighters that don't think much of his power.

Khan went 10 rounds with Featherweight Gairy St.Clair without putting a dent in him.
4 months later featherfisted Australian prospect William Kickett had St.Clair on the floor twice in their fight.

Now there's been over a year since that fight so it's not quite the same but Featherweight Jackson Asiku floored twice and stopped St.Clair in his last bout. Now with results like that you really would expect someone who is a puncher at Lightweight to get the job done over 10 rounds or at least visibly shake him once.

Khan's not featherfisted, but above European level his punch power is really lacking and it's gonna hurt him at World level.

walshb wrote: »

you seem to be debating a completely separate issue here.

I never said Khan is a mega hitter or a Hearns like hitter.

I am simply saying that WHATEVER power he does possess
is greatly helped by his speed. Khan's speed of delivery is
the key to his shots having "their" power.

You want to debate whether or not Khan is a big hitter, that is
a separate debate. The point I am making is that his "power" comes
primarily due to "his" speed!

Do I personally think he's a big hitter? No. A good hitter with
a decent and damaging shot? Yes!

Put it this way, he's a better digger than Dunne, Camacho and Pea IMO!

And probably Kotelnik!

Oh, I'll definitely agree what power he does have comes from his speed of that there's no question.
He probably does hit harder that Kotelnik, the Ukranian isn't much of a puncher. Lucky for him he mightn't need to be.