That's "Irish" alright

walshb · 15-06-2009 03:56PM

SWL wrote: »

I brought a car into Ireland from Sweden a couple of years ago, immediately got Irish Plates, Irish Insurance and paid the Irish Motor tax, why are so many foreign registered cars tolerated on Irish roads, when you look at the plates it is obvious that they are residents here in the republic, all don’t have motor tax and IF they are insured the insurance is not as comprehensive as Irish policy holders, I can’t understand why it is accepted, yet Irish drivers without any of the above will be penalised.

Welcome to Ireland mate!

Honey-ec · 15-06-2009 04:01PM

togster wrote: »

Watch it next week, i hear that there is some incident with a girl and a mobile phone.

Terry wrote: »

In Ballymun?

"Don't be tapin' me!"

Cuddlesworth · 15-06-2009 04:03PM

walshb wrote: »

I heard it on Joe Duffy and I hear some saying, "It's great to see the gradai are showing
discretion.":rolleyes:

Hey, I am all for discretion under certain situations, but blatant dangerous situations
like what was shown the other night should have a ZERO tolerance.

I really think the gradai on this show are just playing to the cameras instead of actually
enforcing the law.

That school coach incident was appalling. The freaking tyre was in bits and the dopey
copper allows the man to continue on with his journey with a coach full of children:(

Once again, please point me to the legislation in which they are allowed to detain either the person or the car for the crimes committed. There is none.

walshb · 15-06-2009 04:13PM

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Once again, please point me to the legislation in which they are allowed to detain either the person or the car for the crimes committed. There is none.

Hey, if there is none, including when there is an obvious danger, then this needs changing.

That is why I posted the thread. If there is no legislation allowing gardai to impound a car
that is a definite threat to safety, then this needs addressing.

I ask, aren't gardai allowed to STOP a drink driver from continuing on
with his/her journey?

So, why, if a car/coach/lorry etc is an obvious threat to society and why if a person
is breaking the law on the way they allow passengers to be taken
in their car, are they allowed continue on?

I never said the gardai ONLY had to take the car off the person. But why allow the person to continue driving?

So, maybe the garda wasn't allowed impound the woman's car
or impound the coach, but surely they could insist on
the tyre being changed on that coach, the children taken off it?

Or, in the case of the woman with the 5 children not properly or
LEGALLY strapped in, he could have insisted on the proper
seats and could have not allowed the car travel until this
was addressed. See, this doesn't even mean having to impound

Cuddlesworth · 15-06-2009 04:22PM

Even then there is nothing there which allows them to do it. Keeping them there without arrest is detaining them. Forcing them to do something outside of the law is against our rights.

I'm not saying its a good or clever thing, I'm just pointing this out so people can see that in reality the cop really did all he could to try make her understand what she was doing was wrong.

Morlar · 15-06-2009 04:26PM

walshb wrote: »

See, this doesn't even mean having to impound

Why the fcuk not ? Seriously why should society focus on being uber fair on this issue ? Lets just for once have an area where we swing the balance in the other more sensible direction. If you are a danger to yourself or others (ie your 5 unstrapped-in kids floating around the inside of your vehicle) then you should be put off the road. I would be in the 'confiscate car' and 'ban from driving for 1 year' and re-sit your driving test camp on this. Waaaay too lenient - this is the reason why people take the piss in the first place - there are no consequences.

walshb · 15-06-2009 04:27PM

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Even then there is nothing there which allows them to do it. Keeping them there without arrest is detaining them. Forcing them to do something outside of the law is against our rights.

I'm not saying its a good or clever thing, I'm just pointing this out so people can see that in reality the cop really did all he could to try make her understand what she was doing was wrong.

Hey, if this is the facts, then this country is a freaking sham.

Okay, surely could he have not enforced the provisional drivers rule and
stopped her proceeding this way? Anything?

Does a garda not have some sort of clause whereby if he/she really
believes that the situation is a danger to motorists, which it
clearly was, then they can STOP the person proceeding?

These two incidents were clear cases of persons
driving with an obvious and serious hazard present

Same with the coach? You know, I am all for safety and all
we have been hearing for years now is road deaths and safety and awareness etc etc and this sort of crap is allowed happen. It's a national disgrace

mickdw · 15-06-2009 04:57PM

But the garda said he would take the coach away with him if he caught him again. There is obviously some law there that allows him to take it when he could say this. Please explain?
Surely the woman with the kids should have been brought to court. Cuddlesworth who I presume is a garda is making the law sound very silly indeed. Care to share any of the other instances where "there is nothing they can do".
Can someone get caught speeding and be told "I will look out for ya next week. If its not right then, I will give ya a ticket" cause thats what he did with the bus and the woman with kids.
Also on a previous show, he lets a foreigner on a bike drive away with lapsed insurance cover and also after telling the garda a load of lies about how long he was in the country and that he was only on hols.
Joke, the whole thing. I wouldnt be a fan of all things english but at least the cops seem to have some power over there and are not afraid to use it.

mickydoomsux · 15-06-2009 04:58PM

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Even then there is nothing there which allows them to do it. Keeping them there without arrest is detaining them. Forcing them to do something outside of the law is against our rights.

I'm not saying its a good or clever thing, I'm just pointing this out so people can see that in reality the cop really did all he could to try make her understand what she was doing was wrong.

Precisely. I have a cop friend and she says that this kind of thing gets let off because the Gardas hands are tied more than you'd ever believe it.

Add to that the fact that if this incident came before a judge it'd be thrown out straight away because the majority of judges hate the cops for some reason.

CAPSLOCK365 · 15-06-2009 04:59PM

I think the OP is lying.
A gard never stopped a car in the history of the state. They haven't the time. They're far too busy stopping vehickles, whatever they may be.

walshb · 15-06-2009 05:09PM

mickdw wrote: »

But the garda said he would take the coach away with him if he caught him again. There is obviously some law there that allows him to take it when he could say this. Please explain?
Surely the woman with the kids should have been brought to court. Cuddlesworth who I presume is a garda is making the law sound very silly indeed. Care to share any of the other instances where "there is nothing they can do".
Can someone get caught speeding and be told "I will look out for ya next week. If its not right then, I will give ya a ticket" cause thats what he did with the bus and the woman with kids.
Also on a previous show, he lets a foreigner on a bike drive away with lapsed insurance cover and also after telling the garda a load of lies about how long he was in the country and that he was only on hols.
Joke, the whole thing. I wouldnt be a fan of all things english but at least the cops seem to have some power over there and are not afraid to use it.

Exactly. If the copper says he will take the coach next week, why can't he take it anytime.

The ridiculous thing is that next week could have been the funerals of many people on that death trap.

This crap excuse that the cops hands are tied doesn't excuse or cut it.
That cop who stopped the woman did not even ask
to see her insurance. What has hands and tied got to do with this.

Why do we accept low standards here. It pisses me off!

Regarding insurance, cops do have the power to impound a motorists car that is not insured and any person
without insurance should NEVER be allowed continue with
their journey. It's a disgrace that they are allowed continue and some poor
unfortunate gets smacked and crippled and with no come back.

Darragh29 · 15-06-2009 05:49PM

walshb wrote: »

Why the hell would this be allowed when both incidents were serious and were an obvious danger and accident waiting to happen?

Sure it'll be grand...

:D:D :mad::mad::mad:

mickydoomsux · 15-06-2009 05:55PM

Darragh29 wrote: »

Sure it'll be grand... :D:D :mad::mad::mad:

Ireland summed up in one phrase.

JCDUB · 15-06-2009 05:56PM

Honey-ec wrote: »

"Don't be tapin' me!"

Hahahhaah pmsl here, haven't seen that little gem in a while.Class act eh?

Did you happen to see the other one in Ballymun where this teenage lad runs up and drop-kicks some girl straight into her face and she goes on her ear?
Fookin animals I tells ye!

DarkJager · 15-06-2009 07:51PM

I hear the series will end with a cliffhanger, in which the driver isn't actually the owner of the vee-hick-le.:eek:

prinz · 15-06-2009 08:13PM

walshb wrote: »

Hey, if there is none, including when there is an obvious danger, then this needs changing.

Then stop taking the mick out of Gardaí. As Cuddlesworth has pointed out there are actually only a few 'crimes' for want of a better word which represent arrestable offences. Neither can an officer detain someone at the roadside.

walshb wrote: »

I ask, aren't gardai allowed to STOP a drink driver from continuing on
with his/her journey?

Yes. Because it is an arrestable offence.

walshb wrote: »

So, why, if a car/coach/lorry etc is an obvious threat to society and why if a person
is breaking the law on the way they allow passengers to be taken
in their car, are they allowed continue on?

Because it is not an arrestable offence.

. Can you imagine the outcry there'd be if someone was arrested or had their car impounded for not having a seat belt on?

walshb wrote: »

I never said the gardai ONLY had to take the car off the person. But why allow the person to continue driving?

As opposed to doing what? Getting one of the kids to drive it?

walshb wrote: »

So, maybe the garda wasn't allowed impound the woman's car
or impound the coach, but surely they could insist on
the tyre being changed on that coach, the children taken off it?

And how do you suggest that happens? Do you mean detain the coach on the roadside until a tyre is brought to it? FAIL. He doesn't have the authority to do that. What would he do with the kids - put them all into the back of a squad car?

walshb wrote: »

Or, in the case of the woman with the 5 children not properly or
LEGALLY strapped in, he could have insisted on the proper
seats and could have not allowed the car travel until this
was addressed. See, this doesn't even mean having to impound

In a non-arrestable offence under the RTA the gardaí have no authority to detain anybody unduly and against their will.

prinz · 15-06-2009 08:17PM

What is much more "Irish" is a load of armchair-general types who think they know the laws and extent of authority of the Gardaí on the road better than a RTC Garda himself. Typically Irish.

And the fact that you start a thread ridiculing the authorities and not the idiots they are pulling over, because it's also typically Irish to be a danger on the road.

walshb · 15-06-2009 09:10PM

prinz wrote: »

Then stop taking the mick out of Gardaí. As Cuddlesworth has pointed out there are actually only a few 'crimes' for want of a better word which represent arrestable offences. Neither can an officer detain someone at the roadside.

Yes. Because it is an arrestable offence.

Because it is not an arrestable offence.. Can you imagine the outcry there'd be if someone was arrested or had their car impounded for not having a seat belt on?

As opposed to doing what? Getting one of the kids to drive it?

And how do you suggest that happens? Do you mean detain the coach on the roadside until a tyre is brought to it? FAIL. He doesn't have the authority to do that. What would he do with the kids - put them all into the back of a squad car?

In a non-arrestable offence under the RTA the gardaí have no authority to detain anybody unduly and against their will.

How many times can one get the word "arrestable" into a post.

Okay, we have established that they aren't 'arrestable' offences. So, now I think
it's time to lobby to make them so.

So, in England a coach that is an obvious threat to life is NOT allowed continue
with its journey. So, do you believe the best solution is to ALLOW the ****ing
coach driver to have children on his coach when a tyre is liable
to blow because it is worn to the threads? Holy sh!t, no wonder this
country is so bloody behind and backward at times.

So, changing the tyre is NOT an option in your opinion?

Better to let the driver drive off and take a major risk?:rolleyes:
So, that coach crashes causing carnage and it's found that the
baldy tyre is the issue. What then? We simply accept that "that's life isn't it."

walshb · 15-06-2009 09:14PM

prinz wrote: »

What is much more "Irish" is a load of armchair-general types who think they know the laws and extent of authority of the Gardaí on the road better than a RTC Garda himself. Typically Irish.

And the fact that you start a thread ridiculing the authorities and not the idiots they are pulling over, because it's also typically Irish to be a danger on the road.

Hey, the idiots they are pulling over are bad enough, but the freaking law not being
enforced is worse isn't it?

The gardai are not enforcing the law, and this is the reason we have so many
goons takin' the piss on the roads.

That lady with the children for example; let us say that he hadn't the power
to stop her driving off. Now, isn't there a case that he could have stopped her from driving due to the provisional licence issue? See, the issue wasn't just the kids with her, add the provisional
issue as well and we can take it from there. Plus, he never even asked to
see her insurance. The programme is really painting a poor image of these
traffic cops.

See, it's your defeatist attitude and low standards that are affecting us all!

Seriously, any legal eagles out there who can maybe clarify if a garda
can under certain special circumstances, impound or STOP
a motorist from continuing on. Circumstances like the two
I listed, the baldy threaded coach tyre carrying the children and the woman
with 5 children NOT strapped into seats, or similar cases.

If a car was driving down the road on fire, can they not stop it
and refuse to allow the driver to continue? Because, from what
I have heard here and read, the ONLY circumstances where they
can STOP and impound or stop the car moving or continuing
is: http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/travel-and-recreation/motoring-1/driving-offences/driving_offences

I do know the insurance issue can result in a garda impounding the vehicle

P.C. · 15-06-2009 09:29PM

mike65 wrote: »

Chewing gum? There are bigger fish to fry. I love the portentious narration of these programmes.

Sorry that I am quoting you mike65, and this has nothing to do with you.

This is why I advocate for a seperate Traffic Police Force.
Not one that falls under the Gardia.
Seperate uniform, seperate cars, etc.

Poeple get away with 'small' things on the roads, wich means that they 'learn' to disregard the rules of the road -after all, what is going to happen?

prinz · 15-06-2009 09:47PM

walshb wrote: »

Hey, the idiots they are pulling over are bad enough, but the freaking law not being
enforced is worse isn't it?

Obviously I didn't put 'arrestable' in there often enough or you wouldn't be asking the same question again...

There is NO law under the Road Traffic Act under which a garda can legally detain, arrest, or impound a vehicle for a NON ARRESTABLE OFFENCE. Having yours kids in the back with no seatbelt is a non arrestable offence, as is a dodgy tyre.

walshb wrote: »

The gardai are not enforcing the law, and this is the reason we have so many
goons takin' the piss on the roads.

Give them the tools and they'll be only to happy to enforce it. Problem is they don't have the laws on their side.

walshb wrote: »

That lady with the children for example; let us say that he hadn't the power
to stop her driving off. Now, isn't there a case that he could have stopped her from driving due to the provisional licence issue?

No, he could warn and caution her. Give her a fine and penalty points, but if she hadn't come to their attention before he would have no power to stop her from driving off.

walshb wrote: »

See, it's your defeatist attitude and low standards that are affecting us all!

My defeatist attitude? The Gardaí are lacking in powers, powers the Govt have to give them. As they have often appealed for more powers and have often said they are operating with one hand tied behind their back.

A defeatist attitude is why didn't the garda do x,y or z........ not why did she have 5 loose rugrats in the back to begin with.

walshb wrote: »

Seriously, any legal eagles out there who can maybe clarify if a garda
can under certain special circumstances, impound or STOP
a motorist from continuing on.

Yes there are, in the special circumstances of an arrestable offence, or suspicion of having committed a arrestable offence.

walshb wrote: »

Circumstances like the two
I listed, the baldy threaded coach tyre carrying the children and the woman
with 5 children NOT strapped into seats?

NO.

walshb · 15-06-2009 09:59PM

prinz wrote: »

There is NO law under the Road Traffic Act under which a garda can legally detain, arrest, or impound a vehicle for a NON ARRESTABLE OFFENCE. Having yours kids in the back with no seatbelt is a non arrestable offence, as is a dodgy tyre.

No, he could warn and caution her. Give her a fine and penalty points, but if she hadn't come to their attention before he would have no power to stop her from driving off.

My defeatist attitude? The Gardaí are lacking in powers, powers the Govt have to give them. As they have often appealed for more powers and have often said they are operating with one hand tied behind their back.

A defeatist attitude is why didn't the garda do x,y or z........ not why did she have 5 loose rugrats in the back to begin with.

Yes there are, in the special circumstances of an arrestable offence, or suspicion of having committed a arrestable offence.

NO.

Okay, but I still maintain that they are not doing their job. The woman was NOT asked to
produce insurance, There is one example of a dopey cop. This is a question that EVERY cop should ask. It is the most damn important and if you do not produce or if a garda thinks you do not have it, he/she can impound!

As for the coach, that really is a disgrace that the law will NOT allow for a garda
to STOP this from happening. That sickened me.

The law needs changing!

prinz · 15-06-2009 10:06PM

walshb wrote: »

The law needs changing!

Exactly!! And week in, week out, the Gardaí are appealing for changes, and for new laws, powers etc, problem is they get very little public support when they do this.

I'd be all for giving them the power to impound cars, buses etc in situations like that, but I can't blame a garda who is doing his job within the law as it stands. Maybe you should start a campaign and contact your TD etc, I'm sure the gardaí would be delighted.

15-06-2009 10:15PM

mehfesto2 wrote: »

Whats the point in having all these ad campaigns and warnings and Gay Byrne flaping about safety when we let a BUS full of children drive on - in bad condition, after the tragedy not three years ago in similar circumstances.

Too many people die on our roads, **** them if they beg and plead - get tghem off the road for a bit until they learn their lesson. And go to town on mobile phone users when they're driving - it's so dangerous.

Ah but shur it does be fierce dear t'fix all dem buses up with seatbelts and shur the childer'd be fine, I mean shur buses never crash anyway, it's grand.

walshb · 15-06-2009 10:19PM

prinz wrote: »

Exactly!! And week in, week out, the Gardaí are appealing for changes, and for new laws, powers etc, problem is they get very little public support when they do this.

I'd be all for giving them the power to impound cars, buses etc in situations like that, but I can't blame a garda who is doing his job within the law as it stands. Maybe you should start a campaign and contact your TD etc, I'm sure the gardaí would be delighted.

My legal question is this:

Forgetting about arrestable for a second. I was simply wanting to know
that if a copper thought that there was a real and definite danger
in allowing a car/lorry/coach etc to continue, could he/she refuse to allow
the driver to drive on. I don't mean arrest him necessarily, just refuse
to allow him to drive on.

I really believe the gardai should have this particular power and find it
very worrying that they do not!

prinz · 15-06-2009 10:46PM

walshb wrote: »

My legal question is this:

Forgetting about arrestable for a second. I was simply wanting to know
that if a copper thought that there was a real and definite danger
in allowing a car/lorry/coach etc to continue, could he/she refuse to allow
the driver to drive on. I don't mean arrest him necessarily, just refuse
to allow him to drive on.

Like I said unless person had committed an offence or was suspected of committing an arrestable offence then the officer AFAIK has no power, to arrest, stall, hold or otherwise detain the person unnecessarily. To do so would be deemed an illegal detention and the garda would be in more trouble than the person they'd detain.

That's "Irish" alright

Comments