JOURNALISM?

piggies · 26-05-2009 02:09PM #1

anyone doing journalism in DCU? Have it down on my CAO as first choice but never got a chance to go to the open days. So just wanted to hear what it's like?:D

*shadow* · 26-05-2009 02:31PM

piggies wrote: »

anyone doing journalism in DCU? Have it down on my CAO as first choice but never got a chance to go to the open days. So just wanted to hear what it's like?:D

Just finished my first year and I Really LOVED it and if you know you want to do something in the journalism field then DCU is by FAR the best place to do that, Plus you get a work placement in your final year which many other courses don't offer.

The first semester isn't the most interesting because you're just getting a broad overview of everything but If you stick with it it gets much more interesting, I Loved the Radio workshops that we did in semester 2.

Spiralling · 26-05-2009 03:26PM

I'm just finished second year myself, and would highly recommend it.

There's a lot of theoretical stuff amongst the practical material - but some of those subjects can be really interesting. The option to do American Politics in first year is one of those that really stood out for me. As the course goes on it gets a bit more practical - first year, and in particular the first semester, is there to mainly give you the underlying basics for a lot of the stuff to come (which means it's a load of crap in many cases). However, first year doesn't actually count towards the degree, so as long as you pass everything, you are fine. Woo!

I'd highly recommend though - whatever you do, if you get journalism in DCU - to get straight in and involved in one of the two main student-run media outlets in DCU. This is where you will learn more than any practical class can teach you. There's the College View, the newspaper (www.thecollegeview.com), which I'm involved with as the Arts Editor; and DCUfm, which is great if you're interested in radio (www.dcufm.com). You will have loads of spare time on your hands - with only around 15-odd hours of lectures a week - so it's good to get a bit of a portfolio going from the start and it can only help when it comes to third year and you're running against others in your year to get the work placement you really want! And do take the inititive yourself - if you want to, say, get involved with the news side of the paper, do email the news editor a week or two before the start of college with a bit about yourself.

piggies · 26-05-2009 06:08PM

I wasn't expecting such quick replies thanks

So what's it like for exams etc.? I can't think of what you could actually be examined on as there doesn't seem to be many modules that are just theory (according to the subjects it says on the website anyway). Is there a lot of continuous assesment and assignments?

This is probably a stupid question but is it mainly girls or boys doing the course or pretty much the same? not that that really matters

Spiralling · 27-05-2009 01:24PM

http://www.dcu.ie/registry/module_contents.php?function=4&programme=JR&desc=BA+in+Journalism

That has the list of whether or not subjects are continual assessment or based on exams. In first semester, it says you have two exams - but really it's only one - the Introduction to Politics when I did it was a take home exam (you were given a day to answer and then upload the essays online). That might have changed though. And then with Introduction to Law - that's the subject that about half the class will always fail. But don't worry - there's an essay for some of the mark, and the ability to compensate.

And then in the second semester, you have one exam for History and Structure of the Media - but you're given the questions beforehand, so it's NICE AND EASY. If you do American Politics - which I HIGHLY recommend - you have one more exam, but it's not exactly a hard one. The lecturer in our case couldn't have hinted more at what was coming up. "This is my favourite topic. I did my PhD on it. I quite like this topic. You might want to take some notes on it." And so on.

In second year then, there's no core exams. The only ones you will get are based on your optional modules (you have six modules a semester, picking two optional ones in second year, and one in first year), which given the fact that most people aren't silly enough to pick another law module means an exam possibly in Cross Cultural Communications or Ireland and National Cinema. In second year, it's where you really begin to enjoy the course. Subjects like News Design - which is great if you are at all interested in design - and Crime and the Media are brilliant. And both those two are quite easy to get firsts in, which from second year onwards you'll be looking for.

And in terms of the mix. There's definately a few more females than males (possibly 60:40 although that couldn't be rougher). If you want a class that is basically all one sex (in this case, females), look at Irish Journalism. There's about twelve or so of them: all bar one (I believe, could be two) are female.

piggies · 27-05-2009 01:39PM

It sounds so interesting hope I get the points! It was 475 last year which I'd say I can get, but it went up 20 points from 2007 - 2008 which is a bit off-putting!
I'm guessing it's a course that a lot of people want to do though.

Is there a lot of competition in journalism? From what I can see it's quite a competitive area to get in to......nothing wrong with that though i suppose

p.s. looked at the college view website, very professional

Spiralling · 27-05-2009 01:46PM

I think you're right - it is a course a lot of people want to get into. I heard that for the mature students application (of which about 5 people get in through each year) they had around 200 applicants. Possibly more. So there's huge interest.

I know I didn't think I'd get the points I needed for the course - and actually had it below DIT's version. I then managed to **** right up on French, and somehow get the points needed. So happy days there. The big one to be sure to get is the B3 and higher needed in English.

Of course there's heaps of competition in the field - but at least with the Intra work placement, and the opportunity of working in the student media - there's a good chance of getting work after the course.

And glad you like the College View's website - although it has to be changed and updated over the summer. Fun times!

piggies · 27-05-2009 02:24PM

Yeh that would be typical if I got the points but got a C in english! Got a B in the mocks so just have to keep that up

The college paper looks really cool what's the radio station like?

15 hours of lectures and hardly any exams it sounds too good to be true where the catch:p

Spiralling · 27-05-2009 02:33PM

The radio station is an intreging one.

It only kinda got back on its feet this year after a number of years of nothing-ness and decay. At the moment it's only broadcasting online, but it should FINALLY have an FM slot soon, or so I've been told. For the first year ever, the three main positions on the station are held by journalism students - instead of the norm of communications students, which can only be good. They're always looking for people to do stuff on the radio station - from as small as writing the hourly news bulletins, to presenters, and producers.

This year just been they had one or two 'news-y' programmes. There was the Current Affairs Show on Wednesday afternoon, which I helped out with on occasion - and that was great - and the News Show was on Mondays, I believe. Then there was a lot of music to go with that all - which I have been told will be less prominant next year, giving more opportunity to people with show ideas.

The problem with the station, more so than the paper, was the clique-ness that some felt there was last year, but I'd say in terms of a good time to get involved with the station: next year will probably be the strongest year of the station to date. And if you are interested when (hopefully) you get to DCU, make sure to speak to someone from the Media Production Society on Clubs & Socs day, and sign up with them.

piggies · 27-05-2009 02:40PM

Yeh I defo hope to get involved in a few clubs&socs..make the most of college!

Where are you hoping to do your work placement? That sounds like a really good part of the course do you have to set up the placement yourself or does the college help out?

(I know my questions are endless feel free to tell me to stop at any time:p:p)

Spiralling · 27-05-2009 02:48PM

In terms of the work placement, I don't fully know at the moment where I hope to go. A newspaper, hopefully, but beyond that I wouldn't be too picky.

The college does help out with getting the placements. There's an online website where companies can add their job offers, and you can apply through that. Interviews are then arranged, and you have to take the first job you are offered. Alternatively, you can arrange your own work placement outside of the website as I know at least one third year has - getting their placement with the Sunday Times.

There's other third years doing their placements at the Irish Times, Hot Press, the Farmers Journal, TV3, the list goes on... DCU does have quite a good list of media contacts. However, don't expect to get paid, sadly. The majority are unpaid but then, the experience does trump that ever so slightly.

piggies · 27-05-2009 02:58PM

So does the work placement take up all of the final year then?

Spiralling · 27-05-2009 03:04PM

No. That'd be a tad too much! It's about 2-3 months - I think - not 100% on the exact length. In the final year, you have one semester of lectures (including a weekly news day, where you either produce a radio programme/newspaper over the day) and then in the second semester you do your thesis. The third years have just started their work placements this/last week - it's the last part of the course.

piggies · 27-05-2009 03:06PM

Oh right so it's during the summer! What kind of thing can you do your thesis on?

monument · 27-05-2009 03:39PM

This varies depending on what type of journalism you want to get into, but in general it is an extremely hard area to get into. If you like it, it can be rewarding work, but it cannot be stressed how hard it is to make it into a full time job.

There is a very slim chance of getting a job directly after college. To get a journalism job you need experience, so freelancing, both from home and in office, is seen as one of the main ways into a job. Also, job cut were occurring before the downturn, and further cuts have come since. And if freelancing was not hard enough, in recent times freelancing budgets have been apparently squeezed, with in-house journalist doing more work.

Year after year, DCU and other colleges are handing out far more journalism and media degrees and diplomas to people wanting to become journalists than there are jobs, and you don't even need such a degree to become a journalist, so don't be surprised if half of your class ends up doing something else, like PR or something totally unrelated.

Most if not all of the above is backed by thread after thread on this topic in the News/Media section of this website and by what lecturers say etc.

Oh, and did I mention pay isn't the greatest (bar in some of the top journalism jobs in the country)?

Spiralling wrote: »

For the first year ever, the three main positions on the station are held by journalism students - instead of the norm of communications students, which can only be good.

That has more to do with the two lads knowing what they are at and being hard working than them being journalism or coms students.

piggies · 27-05-2009 04:56PM

thanks for the (rather brutal) honesty!

I read through some of the other threads it seems there's A LOT of discussion regarding this topic.
Still, I don't think I'll change my CAO choices, let's just hope the economy improves in the next 3 years or so

monument · 27-05-2009 05:14PM

piggies wrote: »

thanks for the (rather brutal) honesty!

I read through some of the other threads it seems there's A LOT of discussion regarding this topic.
Still, I don't think I'll change my CAO choices, let's just hope the economy improves in the next 3 years or so

As Jeremy Paxman says in this video (near the end, but the whole hour and a half is worth watching) he tries his utmost to put people off becoming journalists, in the safe knowledge that the people who really want to do it will still do it. And it would be more unfair if not tell people how hard getting your foot in the door can be. Some get lucky, but it's generally hard work that gets you in that door.

Although I'd be on the fence with what he says about the usefulness of journalism degrees, I mostly agree with what he says. The need for a natural curiosity to be a half decent journalist is an extremely good one.

(disclaimer: I'm very loosely paraphrasing and compacting some of what he says)

piggies · 27-05-2009 05:22PM

If you don't mind me asking did you do a degree in journalism yourself?

monument · 27-05-2009 06:40PM

piggies wrote: »

If you don't mind me asking did you do a degree in journalism yourself?

I have a Higher National Diploma in Print Journalism from a two year course in Ballyfermot College of FE, and am currently going into the second year of the BA in Journalism in DCU. Besides stuff like radio, which I enjoyed as the diploma just covered print, first year was a bit mind boggling boring. Groundhog Year you could nearly say. If it was not for working on the paper I'd have left before now or have being driven insane.

Tiroskan · 27-05-2009 08:34PM

piggies wrote: »

Yeh that would be typical if I got the points but got a C in english! Got a B in the mocks so just have to keep that up

The college paper looks really cool what's the radio station like?

15 hours of lectures and hardly any exams it sounds too good to be true where the catch:p

If you've any aptitude in English, (which one would hope you have, considering your given career choice) you shouldn't have any difficulty snagging a B in English, given that you learn the course material. I managed it WITHOUT learning most of the material, beyond, literally, I'd say 3/4 quotes for Othello and a few choice lines from the poetry. So I wouldn't sweat it, I'd say you'd be fine.

Why I then decided to do physics given my aptitude in languages I have no idea really, other than the fact that there was no chance of me ever getting 450+ points...

The catch, I would say, from watching my friends and comrades who did journalism/media/anything else in the humanities faculty, would be the amount of time they spent in the library, working on essays and projects. But it works out I suppose.

Choc123 · 28-05-2009 05:36PM

If you have an interest in current affairs, (some people will say thats not necessary but they're wrong) can write clearly and are determined beyond belief to make it work, then journalism is for you.
I wouldn't mind the fact that there are job cuts, there are job cuts across the board but the economy will recover and I think going into first year now is a perfect time.
My advice to you would be to get involved in both DCUfm and The College View. Regardless of faults, they provide ample opportunity to get experience of writing and radio work. Don't do what too many Journos do and just sit back on their arses and then decide its time to get involved near the end of their degree. Show some initiative and come up with a story for arts or news or anything or an idea for a radio show.
DCU is a brilliant college with really great people and although you might well have regrets about journalism during first year, stick with it and make the most of your three years because believe me, it flies.

piggies · 28-05-2009 05:46PM

finally a bit of positivity

monument · 28-05-2009 08:56PM

Choc123 wrote: »

I wouldn't mind the fact that there are job cuts, there are job cuts across the board but the economy will recover and I think going into first year now is a perfect time.

As I said: Job cut were occurring before the downturn. The job cuts have been part to do with listed newspaper companies (in Ireland mainly read: Independent News & Media) looking to get a larger percentage of profit than than newspapers have ever given. Less of a problem in Ireland compared to the US and UK, for the moment at least, is newspapers switching to the internet with less ad revenue and no cover price.

Because of these reasons and the downturn there will be some journalism jobs that are gone and are never coming back. Journalism has for a long time been hard enough to get into, and it has gotten harder in the last five year.

So, I'm talking about newspapers mostly above, but it's not restricted to print. Newstalk and TodayFM have a part merged newsroom and within radio there's a lot of lobbying to be able to cut their news requirements in full or part. But even if there was no cuts in radio, when there's cuts in one medium, say print, many of those journalists will try to get work in another, say radio. There's also been cuts to TV3.

Not interisted in news? Music and entertainment journalism has always been just as hard if not harder to get into.

piggies wrote: »

finally a bit of positivity

You can take Choc123's word for this, or you can trust what not just I am saying, but what all those editors and journalists are saying on the threads in the News/Media section of this site -- I see you already found one of those threads, there has been many in the last few years. The same message can be found in articles about the current / future landscape of journalism.

I'm not saying it's imposable, but freelance and casual work is making up more and more of journalism work (and has been said that's been tight at the moment). Some people love it and even prefer it. It can, however, be hard self motivating on your own at home at first... equally work experience can be a nightmare.

Again, I'm with Paxman on this, if you really want to be a journalist you still will try to be. I just don't think it's fair to underestimate how hard it can be.

piggies · 28-05-2009 10:53PM

sorry I didn't mean to sound as if I didn't agree with you, I completely believe what you're saying. And thanks for telling it how it is

Apart from newspapers, what about magazines etc.?

Has anyone heard of projects-abroad? They offer journalism work placements all around the world - although they are quite expensive! You pay about €1,500 for a month including accommodation, food, and you're job at a newspaper/radio station.
It sounds interesting to get some experience, maybe during the summer of college etc.

monument · 28-05-2009 11:23PM

piggies wrote: »

sorry I didn't mean to sound as if I didn't agree with you, I completely believe what you're saying. And thanks for telling it how it is

Even tho I was replying to you, I may have been aiming the message at Choc123 more than you

piggies wrote: »

Apart from newspapers, what about magazines etc.?

Has anyone heard of projects-abroad? They offer journalism work placements all around the world - although they are quite expensive! You pay about €1,500 for a month including accommodation, food, and you're job at a newspaper/radio station.
It sounds interesting to get some experience, maybe during the summer of college etc.

I know more about newspapers than magazines, but since the general Irish magazine market is a small one I'd say it can be difficult too. But again, by no way imposable if you're willing and able to do the work. However if you're talking about news / current affairs mags, there are few in Ireland, so that area would be harder again than papers.

On placements, and I mean outside the third year "Intra" (sic - it's a nonsense jargon name for formal work experience), and it's a good idea to look for work experience at the end of first and second years off your own back... You can get Dublin-based work experience easier than you might think, it just takes an email to the right person in what ever publication/outlet you're interisted in.

Make sure you find out the right person before asking for a placement and be ready and find out what will be expected from you (different places look for different things -- some give you a bone, some leave you to generate your own stuff, some make you clean and make coffee). Just please don't be one of those people who work unpaid for months and months, do no more than something like two months. I'm open correction, but from what I've seen and heard, the people who work unpaid up to six months or more seem to just be kept told they'll get a job over and over until they get fed up and a new student replaces them.

jdivision · 29-05-2009 12:24AM

As somebody who graduated a decade ago I'd echo monument's words, he/she seems to have their head screwed on. Forget about a job out of college, I freelanced for four years after college working five different jobs at one stage, had to be done. It's paid off since but it's really what you make of it. I've seen an amount of people coming out of DCU thinking they're brilliant with huge egos when what newspapers are looking for are people who'll put their head down, write a basic news story, learn the trade, work their asses off and aren't afraid to pick up the phone (amazing how many are). Students need to realise they've learnt almost nothing when they graduate. There's a famous story told of an MA on work experience in one Irish newspaper who was asked to photocopy some stuff and queried whether there was not somebody below him like a receptionist who could do it. He was told in no uncertain terms that he was on the lowest rung of the ladder. He didn't last long in journalism, last I heard he was lecturing in DCU, probably still talking about how brilliant he was. I'd advise setting a target of writing a certain amount of stories a week on work experience and if you're not getting there in a particular week I'd go around to each section editor and ask if there was anything I could do to help them out. People will remember you as somebody with an appetite for hard work.
As for things like project-abroad, it won't stand to you. you'd be better off getting work experience here in a local paper/radio station etc off your own bat.

Choc123 · 29-05-2009 08:11PM

The starter of this thread asked what the BA in Journalism is like... Scaring him/her by talking about the lack of jobs in the industry is unnecessary and off topic.
Thats my 2 cents anyway.

monument · 30-05-2009 12:12PM

Choc123 wrote: »

The starter of this thread asked what the BA in Journalism is like... Scaring him/her by talking about the lack of jobs in the industry is unnecessary and off topic.
Thats my 2 cents anyway.

Scaring people with facts?

Choc123 · 30-05-2009 01:10PM

Yes, facts that are irrelevant to what the poster asked out!

monument · 30-05-2009 01:24PM

Choc123 wrote: »

Yes, facts that are irrelevant to what the poster asked out!

Are you trying to make out that how hard it is to get a job is irrelevant to a discussion about a degree? Furthermore, a discussion which work placement is being talked about and where one poster claims "there's a good chance of getting work after the course"?

Choc123 · 01-06-2009 11:18AM

monument wrote: »

Are you trying to make out that how hard it is to get a job is irrelevant to a discussion about a degree? Furthermore, a discussion which work placement is being talked about and where one poster claims "there's a good chance of getting work after the course"?

Yes

JOURNALISM?

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